RedDawg#8

6’4 is not small for a SG. You have 6’4 guys playing full time at SF these days; Josh Hart, Bruce Brown, JaeSean Tate. Isiah (6’1), Dumars (6’3) and Vinny Johnson (6’2) showed you can win with small guards on the floor together. We have to stop getting stuck on inches and pay attention to toughness and mindset. A guy can have size and still play small and vice versa. Hell, Bey has size. Whoever is playing with Trae needs to be aggressive and tough. We thought DJ was that kind of dude. We lack that mindset more than any thing else.

Lakers don’t have real assets. They really just need to stop all the cap with these trade rumors. edit: Lakers don’t have real assets THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO TRADE.

I wasn’t bragging by any means and yes that is exactly what it was like lol I was moreso just trying to use a first hand example and that’s all I had to go off of lol

I agree that Trae has to be smarter in his approach with the refs. For instance, when I coached our intramural team, we blatantly were getting hacked with no calls from the refs. Our best players were arguing for calls to no avail. At one point I shouted to OUR team loud enough for the refs to hear “Stop arguing calls, just play, they are not calling fouls for us tonight, the whistle is not coming, so just play through it!!” To which everyone could feel the sentiment. I was not speaking to an official, I didn’t go after anyone directly, but the refs knew I was not happy. The very next trip down we got whistle in our favor. It’s like, they needed the wake up call too. The lead ref came to me and apologized later saying he missed some calls. I was frustrated, I was heated, our team was emotional, and even though I was being passive aggressive, I made my point without escalating the situation. Trae has to learn how to voice his frustrations without attacking anyone directly. These refs are sensitive divas too. You have to hold their hand and protect their egos too. The best thing Trae could do honestly is every time there is a BS call or no-call against him is show the ref his back. Don’t say anything, just look away. No gestures or words. Don’t give them any attention. Go to a teammate and chat through the next play or assignment. The refs will get the same effect. They will feel frozen out. But you can’t get a “T” for ignoring. Next time you speak you keep it short. “Great game”, walk away. They would get the message and honestly feel worse at some point to where they are like aight, Let me try something else to get attention from him.

Losing dictates the direction. Getting blown out by Washington and San Antonio in 6 of the last 8 quarters makes the decision easy. Two tanking teams that are both 7-32 have had their way with us. This is not a “put a band aid on it” roster. We are very clearly out classed by teams 1-8 in the East. If the Play-In didn’t exist we would be so clearly a lottery team already while TRYING to win games. We are losing games without trying to lose on purpose. That tells you all you need to know. No need to sugar coat the situation any longer. What is worse, telling Trae that we are going to make some hard moves to put us in a better situation long term to win a championship OR that a 16-23 team in 11th place is a Pascal Siakam away from being a title contender this season? Trae has to understand the reality of the situation. There are no more short cuts left on the table. Either we bite the bullet and fix real problems, or we keep pretending everything will work itself out and regress for the 3rd, 4th consecutive season and he leaves anyway.

I understand anyone who is against a rebuild. I dont need to repeat any of those points as they are all valid. But the point that is getting lost is that we are already losing NOW while we thought we were built to win. That is a huge problem. Looking at the company we are keeping in the standings, we are next to teams in similar situations (Bulls, Raps, Nets) who all overvalued their players and the product on the court doesn’t match the expectations of the fans or front office. We can keep telling ourselves we are one big time move away but it will just delay the inevitable. It is better to make the hard decisions now and maximize value/return for your (underachieving) assets with hopes of getting the right pieces in place. I don’t think it can happen by keeping a bunch of drafted players, but if we can use resources to acquire skilled veterans that fit the profile of what Trae needs then it can work. There is just too much money tied up in a losing roster that is trending downward by the day. Whether you want to rebuild or not, we are a BAD team either way. Might as well be smart about it if you’re still going to lose games. I don’t thing swinging big is going to work, not unless we get lucky again with another player who demands to play with Trae like DJ did. Trae and JJ are your centerpieces. Soth already explained the vision with building around these two. There is no 3rd star magically appearing, bit damnit if we can’t at least find size, length, IQ, and some hustle, you can do worse than a walking 30-10 PG and a stat stuffing forward as your starting point.

Everything that came out from that time said that Luka was top of our board and we would have been fine keeping him, and that Trae was right there as well. The only motivation for the trade (beyond Quavo telling the FO Trae would be a better fit for the city) was ironically Schlenk’s school of thought that he wanted more swings at the plate to find talent. He valued that extra first round pick more than he valued Luka. So if we believe this then Luka would have been the pick without the additional pick offered from Dallas. This a a reminder to those that are asset seekers, that having a bunch of picks will always pale in comparison to finding one legit premium talent. With all of our draft picks from that rebuild we are sitting here with Trae and Jalen as our (2) cornerstones moving forward. That’s the gamble of relying on the draft.

Proof that size and length do not equal basketball talent/skill.

This. If we’re moving Dre or AJ for him that’s one thing. But for DJ? Nah

I HATEA playing against Rick Carlisle teams. He calls quick timeouts to stop any kind of momentum and he has consistently ran bodies at Trae at halfcourt to get him off the ball and disrupt our offensive rhythm. It’s always an awkward, herky jerky game flow against his teams. Not so much trapping tonight but it’s coming.

Wondering who will be the first to blame Trae for that run the Pacers just went on while he was sitting on the bench lol

I don’t disagree that the different era played a factor, but Joe had free reign and the ball in his hands as the #1, Murray is doing this not just as the #2 guy, but next to a ball dominant guard that takes a lot of scoring and assist opportunities away from DJ. I think the 2 balance out. Joe was bigger and better on defense, yes.

Well then I would have to say that Quinn gets it. Build this thing like the Bad Boy Pistons and surround Zeke, I mean Trae, with size, physicality, and toughness, and let Trae go to work. We are already seeing him transform in to a scrappy and timely defensive playmaker despite his size. As long as these big dudes can hit an outside shot, we will be just fine. JJ unlocks this whole thing. He has the playmaking ability that we can put on the court with Trae and not lose anything. Trae and the goons, I love it.

21-5-4rebs and 45% shooting is essentially what Joe Johnson averaged as the best player and an All Star of those Hawks teams. So yeah, I would say DJM is a star based on his production. Any other market and this wouldn’t be a debate.

“Overrated!!!, **clap, clap, clap-clap -clap**

TNT broadcast just name dropped DJ as the Lakers’ top trade target. Stating “the Lakers really want to add speed to their backcourt, the name to look out for, DeJounte Murray.”

If the Hawks happen to string together a few wins this weekend I predict DJ’s availability for trade will shift. Especially with the lack of value in return or fit on the receiving team for him. He is only open to being traded as long as it makes sense. Ball watching Lebron, playing next to Brunson, or playing in Toronto are not appealing to DJ I’m sure. With 4 winnable games coming up the locker room could feel much different in a week.

The best individual player mentioned in all of these scenarios is Lavine. Offensively he is the best fit for an off guard or wing next to Trae who can light it up. Think Bogi with hops. But defensively…….. Quinn would be having nightmares. Brooklyn has the best player assets and is the best landing spot for Murray. Both are viewed as the least likely trade partners for the Hawks. Go figure.

I mean…. tell us something new, those of us that support Trae have been saying this for years but the “he’s too little” crowd gets louder by the day.

Agreed that picks as assests are valuable moreso than picks we plan to keep and put more youth around Trae. The motivation for the Spurs is this, when you get a promising star, you waste no time building around him. They still have their own picks, they don’t need (2) rookies every year for the next 3 of the next 4 years when they already have so much youth. You want to know what Dallas did with Luka, after his rookie season they were bringing in veteran talent that fit around him.You don’t waste time surrounding youth with more youth because it’s so hard to teach them winning habits AND keep all of them happy when they’re competing against each other for roles and minutes. As good as Wemby is, the best thing they can do for him is put players around him that can play the right way and teach him how to win. That’s what we should have done with Trae. Size, Length, Defense and Shooting. If they aren’t a superstar they better check off at least (2) of these boxes.

I really like the length of Claxton and newfound defensive effort of Dennis Smith. Both are FA’s this offseason. Claxton could fit next to JJ or OO up front.

I agree with everything in principle. But in practice, without Quinn planning any changes to lineup or strategy, the front office not committed to winning this season, and with no one safe in these trade rumors, etc… I don’t see this team running on to the court with some newfound confidence and enthusiasm. This team lost it’s fight in those 14 games Jalen missed. They realized how overmatched they were and there was no help from coaching or the FO to do anything about it. We are in a big hole and our 2nd best player is on the outs. I guarantee the players in the locker room hear way more rumors on themselves than we do as fans. Not a single player feels committed to a winning cause this season. They don’t know if they will be here in a few weeks. I want to be hopeful, but this season just ain’t it for the Hawks.

Based purely on product and results it’s not even a question. Even Prunty got more out of this core roster than Quinn has. But, I am giving him the benefit of doubt, maybe foolishly, maybe because I have no other choice. Quinn had (2) losing seasons in Utah before they became perennial winners. I do buy the idea that his system takes time to implement. Heck even Bud started with a losing record his first season in charge. This brand of basketball is not for the faint of mind. The Hawks stopped developing players when they switched from LP to Nate, so a lot of our young guys have hit a re-set on their clock under Quinn as he works against bad habits that have not been coached out. You don’t look this lost on defense as a team compared to just last season when the only player you lost was JC. They didn’t forget how to play, they are learning a new language. Quinn has a great staff, he has some great basketball minds working behind the scenes. I absolutely hate his utilization of personnel in the face of injury or foul trouble, but I am accepting that he is not willing to put a band aid on this roster anymore just so we can have style points and win now. He is absolutely committed to tearing down the old way of playing so that our ceiling raises from just good to potentially great some day. Again, I could be foolish but what choice do we have but to buy in?

Great question. From an outside perspective it looks like they wanted more spacing in the starting lineup around Wemby. Champagnie was the guy inserted into the lineup in KJ’s place. KJ is .344 from 3 and Champagnie is shooting .391% Other than that, Keldon is still playing the most minutes on the team at over 32 a night off the bench while Champagnie is still hovering just below 20 mpg as a starter, so it’s giving Ginobli vibes.

Better question, if we get our picks back does that mean we can convince Travis to come back too? “Just kidding about that DJ trade, Travis, no harm no foul, right?”