RedDawg#8

Our defense is really atrocious. Stop me if you heard that before. But seriously, Bob is calling it out, we are not picking up ball carriers until they are touching paint. There is little to no resistance outside the 3pt line. Klay Thompson walked in to a wide open three while Bogi was playing him to drive. Do our players not understand scouting reports? Would you rather Klay Thompson take a wide open three or be forced drive and make a play with the ball? It’s the easiest answer on the test. We are so lost at the game of basketball.

We have nothing positive to discuss about this season, that even politics and religion seem like safer topics than debating each other about how to fix the Hawks lol

Im, possibly naively, still trying to win games moreso than leveraging trade value. I would like to max the potential out of this roster before disbanding it. Imagine trading CC and then having to spend more assets to find a backup center, when you could just change the lineup and see if OO’s versatility holds up better as a starter while CC is your matchup big. Separately, I feel like every team has a starting center, even the bad one’s. Clint is not expiring yet so he probably won’t go to a rebuilding team or one looking to shed salary. Clint’s best value will be as a backup center on a contender that needs good reserve minutes and a stylistic change from their starter. Lastly, CC has been a starting center on playoff teams for 95% of his career. If teams don’t already know his value, capabilities, skillset, etc… they never will. He is nothing new today than he was before, outside of a better foul shooter. So, honestly speaking, he probably doesn’t have a market. We are likely stuck with him.

Our country, unfortunately, does not understand the real meaning of a lot of the constitution and its amendments. We convolute a lot of history and facts with politics and agendas. It is a very sad state to say the least.

OO is not consistent enough for anyone to feel comfortable with him as the full time starter, but, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get an opportunity to try. Especially before we decide to move CC. Why can’t we bring CC off the bench before moving on from him? There are many teams that would kill for a veteran backup center like him, especially for certain matchups. But I think OO and JJ play tremendous next to one another and we should go to it more often. I also think that OO fits Quinns scheme better. Without a better option I would keep CC around, because he has value. I just wish Quinn would try this out now so we could at least see if it could work.

This! Nothing more to add. Bucks are heading in the wrong direction.

Not necessarily speaking for everyone, but at least from my perspective, I don't think anyone truly just WANTS to trade DJ or is accusing him of being a bad player or anything. I think most people just hopped on the wave because a) it appears that HE doesn't like his fit on the team and is open to a change, and this a mutual feeling inside the building, b) we are not getting any real interest in the guys who we would actually want to trade away, c) we initially thought there was the possibility of a greater return that could actually help us on the court, and d) we are losing, a lot, and need to re-think this entire roster top to bottom. DJ is not a scapegoat, he is just the only name that anyone outside of Atlanta got excited about being on the market. If we could get KAT or Zion or whoever, and only have to sacrifice role players, we would do it. We WANTED a big three that included Trae and DJ, but it is looking like that can't/won't happen.

Has to be because he is an expiring. He offers on some on court value now AND cap relief in the offseason. That is an attractive trade asset. Capela and Hunter cost more and have more years left on their deals. On court ability and value don’t offset the financial commitment in a league where nobody has money.

They would really rather watch the sorry Spurs than rock with us, dang smh

I started doing my deep dive research to support the OP’s initial point. I will come back with the hard numbers as I am currently at work but, there is proof across a big enough sample size that we have certain lineups that are flat out superior than the lineups we choose to start games and halves with. And as far as the Trae and DJ pairing, this lineup is only terrible when used with our starting groups (the ones with and without Dre/JJ). There are multiple 5 man units that include Trae and DJ that are killing it. Some stuff is obvious, like having a true floor spacer like Bogi on the court makes many of his 5 man units come alive. Other stuff is not so obvious, like the fact that some of our smaller lineups perform much better defensively than the ones with “length”. Again, folks need data, but I wanted to at least put this out in the discussion for those hell bent on saying we don’t have the right pieces. We are not utilizing the pieces we do have or playing our most effective lineups enough is more likely the truth. Trae-DJ-Bogi-JJ-OO Trae-Bogi-Bey-JJ-OO Trae-DJ-Bey-JJ-OO DJ-Bogi-Bey-JJ-OO Mix in a few lineups that utilize Forrest, Mills, and G Matthews. Is the defense better theoretically with CC and Hunter? Yes, but the net output is horrific. When it’s all said and done, spacing seems like the bigger problem than anything else. Quinn long should have shaken up our starting units rather than stay with the status quo which he inherited. We want to run? We want shooting? We want ball movement? That exists on the roster. You don’t have to search far to find it

The rumbling that a Belicheck hire comes with removing Terry Fontenot is what pisses me off the most. The GM has done a phenomenal job navigating Dimitroff's cap hell and rebuilding a roster with talent. The coach failed, but TF never had a say in that hire, and then you let a coaching candidate determine his future? And you potentially lose a respected young GM who did everything you asked of him because BB wants full control? No way, Jose. The first black GM in team history gets treated like this, in a city like Atlanta, and you think the fans are going to rock with it? Definition of tone def. Falcons are trash if they push Fontenot out the door for Belicheck.

I love how Quin has come in and said we need to change this roster to put size, length and shooting around Trae. 21-22 season - We trade Cam for Knox and a pick. Cam is 6-8, with a 7 foot wingspan, defense and shooting, and some ball handling. 22 offseason - We trade Kev for J holiday and a pick, Kev is a 6-7 floor spacing SG. 6-7 is taller than our entire PF rotation this year not named JJ. 23 offseason - we trade JC for a TPE, which we wont use. JC is 6-9+ PF, solid role player. We have no PF on the roster when JJ went down. Cam asked for a trade, so I'm not mad a the decision, but the return was awful. The return on each of those trades was below the value that we had for those players. And here we sit thinking that we are going to win ANY trades with the roster we have left. Needless to say, all of this to find player that can fit next to Trae when WE ALREADY HAD THOSE PLAYERS IN OUR POSSESSION AND GAVE THEM AWAY FOR SALARY CAP RELIEF. We have no path forward as we are stuck with players and contracts nobody wants, and the one player of value can only net us more picks and cap relief. What the hell is this franchise.

I feel you, but that’s why the fan vote is so important. Unless the players and coaches are on the exact page about who the (2) best guards in the East are, they are likely just splitting votes against each other. There is no consensus name that is being overly screwed in the fan vote for them to rally behind either. Maxey, Brunson, Dame, Spida, are each equally deserving. The New England market alone will push Derrick White and Brown to both make it which will sacrifice votes from the other guys. In the end, if Trae stays as the #2 fan vote guard, it’s extremely hard to supplant him in a year with so many other options to choose from vs 1 or 2 strong and obvious candidates.

Google search Herb Jones and every one and their mama are chomping at the bit right now to get him after this article. Going to be a ton of competition for his services.

Orlando is 23rd in offensive rating (112.2) Miami is 20th (113.8) We held Orlando to 104, with Trae.(-8.2) We held Miami to 108, without (-5.8) I don’t think discrediting Orlando is the best way to make your point in this case. Even if you add in the 2.5 point spread for being home vs away then it was an identical defensive impact on both teams with or without DJ at PG, or Trae in the lineup. The truth is that Quinn has made schematic adjustments after we got embarrassed by the Wizards, and we are playing to the strengths of our bigs in drop as well as masking the weaknesses of Bey and Bogi who get routinely killed on backdoor cuts. There is a 3 game sample size of us playing better defense and winning, and 2 of those games include Trae Young at PG. Let’s let things play out a bit longer before making conclusions about our defensive ceiling with our new approach. After all, we were playing half decent defense in October and early November. Not to mention, your boy hasn’t even played a game since JJ has been back in the lineup. I’m sure his otherworldly impact is going to do wonders for our defensive potential compared to having Bey in the starting lineup.

Has nothing to do with playing more zone and drop coverage to eliminate the backcuts that have been our achilles heel, Im sure. It’s only Trae’s absence. Even though the defense gave up even less points the previous 2 games (99, 104) with him in the lineup. So is it Trae or is it a strategy adjustment?

Just want to pat myself on the back real quick. Things always feel different when you win.

Shhhh, don’t tell him. Let him work his agenda lol

Congrats to Udonis Haslem, now hold this “L” my guy.

So, what are we thinking now? Hold DJ until summer when we can revisit the KAT stuff? Make a couple of mid level moves to get off contracts in the interim?

Yesterday’s price is NOT today’s price !!!

Yesterday’s price is not today’s price

Was thinking this same thing. There shouldn’t be any excuse for lack of offense or defense production at his natural position tonight.

KAT about to be the new Siakam on these boards. He WILL get traded Im sure, but not to Atlanta.

We have always been an offensive engine with Trae. We have always struggled on defense. Yet somehow we look worse at both aspects under Quinn. Im more disappointed in our defensive output. We have outright fallen off a cliff even after starting the season off pretty solid on that end. It is very obvious to me that whatever the issue is with our personnel, Quin has dug in and said no, he will not change his approach to help the talent on this roster just to win games now. My issue is he is very clearly sacrificing wins and loses for some bigger vision that nobody but he, LF and Trae can see, apparently. I don’t think he is a bad coach. He is definitely coming across as a stubborn one though.