RedDawg#8

Our defense is really atrocious. Stop me if you heard that before.

But seriously, Bob is calling it out, we are not picking up ball carriers until they are touching paint. There is little to no resistance outside the 3pt line.

Klay Thompson walked in to a wide open three while Bogi was playing him to drive. Do our players not understand scouting reports? Would you rather Klay Thompson take a wide open three or be forced drive and make a play with the ball? 

It’s the easiest answer on the test. We are so lost at the game of basketball.

2 hours ago, AHF said:

If people want to discuss religion, etc. let’s take it to that forum.  Obviously comments that AJ has made touch on that and are fair game for discussion but let’s not jump from that to broader political and religious conversations.  You can start those on that board and post a link in this thread. I know that is a bit of a fine line but we were starting to branch into that broader discussion apart from AJ stuff and I’m just here to nip that in the bud.

We have nothing positive to discuss about this season, that even politics and religion seem like safer topics than debating each other about how to fix the Hawks lol  

28 minutes ago, AHF said:

If you plan on ultimately trading him then having him come off the bench is not a good way to max his value.  I would just shift the minutes so OO gets more time against opposing starters.

Im, possibly naively, still trying to win games moreso than leveraging trade value. I would like to max the potential out of this roster before disbanding it. Imagine trading CC and then having to spend more assets to find a backup center, when you could just change the lineup and see if OO’s versatility holds up better as a starter while CC is your matchup big.

Separately, I feel like every team has a starting center, even the bad one’s. Clint is not expiring yet so he probably won’t go to a rebuilding team or one looking to shed salary. Clint’s best value will be as a backup center on a contender that needs good reserve minutes and a stylistic change from their starter.

Lastly, CC has been a starting center on playoff teams for 95% of his career. If teams don’t already know his value, capabilities, skillset, etc… they never will. He is nothing new today than he was before, outside of a better foul shooter.

So, honestly speaking, he probably doesn’t have a market. We are likely stuck with him.

13 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

 

What people have forgotten is that free speech has nothing to do with someone having to freedom to say any damn thing without repercussions.
The freedom you get with your speech is freedom from the government locking you up because you said something they don’t like. It has nothing to do with preventing you from getting cancelled, fired from your job, or getting the taste slapped out of your mouth. 

Our country, unfortunately, does not understand the real meaning of a lot of the constitution and its amendments. We convolute a lot of history and facts with politics and agendas.

It is a very sad state to say the least.

OO is not consistent enough for anyone to feel comfortable with him as the full time starter, but, that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get an opportunity to try. Especially before we decide to move CC. Why can’t we bring CC off the bench before moving on from him?

There are many teams that would kill for a veteran backup center like him, especially for certain matchups.

But I think OO and JJ play tremendous next to one another and we should go to it more often.

I also think that OO fits Quinns scheme better. Without a better option I would keep CC around, because he has value. I just wish Quinn would try this out now so we could at least see if it could work.

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Defense taken a step back, REALLY????  Jrue ------> Dame, and they're surprised???

This! 
Nothing more to add. Bucks are heading in the wrong direction.

53 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

DM stat line last night and everyone wants to trade him.  

35 Pts, 11 assists.   

Who else usually has this stat line that didn't play last night?   DM is the odd man out but shouldn't be traded for a bucket of nails, he is still young and a very good PG.  We better get something significant for him or keep his friendly contract.  

Not necessarily speaking for everyone, but at least from my perspective, I don't think anyone truly just WANTS to trade DJ or is accusing him of being a bad player or anything. I think most people just hopped on the wave because a) it appears that HE doesn't like his fit on the team and is open to a change, and this a mutual feeling inside the building, b) we are not getting any real interest in the guys who we would actually want to trade away, c) we initially thought there was the possibility of a greater return that could actually help us on the court, and d) we are losing, a lot, and need to re-think this entire roster top to bottom.

DJ is not a scapegoat, he is just the only name that anyone outside of Atlanta got excited about being on the market. If we could get KAT or Zion or whoever, and only have to sacrifice role players, we would do it. We WANTED a big three that included Trae and DJ, but it is looking like that can't/won't happen.

37 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bey is going for 1sts. Teams are calling us for him. Hunter and Capela is more about the contract. 

Has to be because he is an expiring. 
He offers on some on court value now AND cap relief in the offseason.

That is an attractive trade asset.

Capela and Hunter cost more and have more years left on their deals. On court ability and value don’t offset the financial commitment in a league where nobody has money.

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

They would really rather watch the sorry Spurs than rock with us, dang smh

I started doing my deep dive research to support the OP’s initial point.

I will come back with the hard numbers as I am currently at work but, there is proof across a big enough sample size that we have certain lineups that are flat out superior than the lineups we choose to start games and halves with.

And as far as the Trae and DJ pairing, this lineup is only terrible when used with our starting groups (the ones with and without Dre/JJ). There are multiple 5 man units that include Trae and DJ that are killing it.

Some stuff is obvious, like having a true floor spacer like Bogi on the court makes many of his 5 man units come alive.

Other stuff is not so obvious, like the fact that some of our smaller lineups perform much better defensively than the ones with “length”.

Again, folks need data, but I wanted to at least put this out in the discussion for those hell bent on saying we don’t have the right pieces.

We are not utilizing the pieces we do have or playing our most effective lineups enough is more likely the truth.

Trae-DJ-Bogi-JJ-OO

Trae-Bogi-Bey-JJ-OO

Trae-DJ-Bey-JJ-OO

DJ-Bogi-Bey-JJ-OO

Mix in a few lineups that utilize Forrest, Mills, and G Matthews.

Is the defense better theoretically with CC and Hunter? Yes, but the net output is horrific.

When it’s all said and done, spacing seems like the bigger problem than anything else.

Quinn long should have shaken up our starting units rather than stay with the status quo which he inherited.

We want to run? We want shooting? We want ball movement?

That exists on the roster. You don’t have to search far to find it

I love how Quin has come in and said we need to change this roster to put size, length and shooting around Trae.

21-22 season - We trade Cam for Knox and a pick. Cam is 6-8, with a 7 foot wingspan, defense and shooting, and some ball handling.

22 offseason - We trade Kev for J holiday and a pick, Kev is a 6-7 floor spacing SG. 6-7 is taller than our entire PF rotation this year not named JJ.

23 offseason - we trade JC for a TPE, which we wont use. JC is 6-9+ PF, solid role player. We have no PF on the roster when JJ went down.

Cam asked for a trade, so I'm not mad a the decision, but the return was awful. The return on each of those trades was below the value that we had for those players.

And here we sit thinking that we are going to win ANY trades with the roster we have left. Needless to say, all of this to find player that can fit next to Trae when WE ALREADY HAD THOSE PLAYERS IN OUR POSSESSION AND GAVE THEM AWAY FOR SALARY CAP RELIEF.

We have no path forward as we are stuck with players and contracts nobody wants, and the one player of value can only net us more picks and cap relief. 

What the hell is this franchise. 

On 1/12/2024 at 11:05 AM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I honestly forgot about the vote percentages.

Trae being 2nd in fan voting helps.  But if that only counts for 50%, he could easily get screwed again with the media and players vote.  Media are going to skew their vote toward players on winning teams ( although they didn't punish SGA and Haliburton for being on losing teams, nor did they punish Lebron ), while the players will be all over the place with their vote.

Trae could easily get a vote that looks like this

• Fans ( 2nd ) = 2
• Media ( 7th ) = 7
• Players ( 9th ) = 9
• Average = 6.0

Barkley's comments with his All-Star team, and the way he named about 5 - 6 guards ahead of Trae, could easily be the way the media vote goes down.  Media will vote Trae over Brunson, because Brunson plays in New York, and the Knicks are on national TV every other week.

Most likely guard pool

• Haliburton ( IND )
• Trae ( ATL )
• Maxey ( PHI )
• Mitchell ( CLE )
• Lillard ( MIL )
• Brunson ( NY )
• Brown ( BOS )

If the coaches take 6 guards, and Trae doesn't get named as a starter, who are the coaches most likely to leave off?

East is very guard heavy, while noticeably weak on frontcourt players.

I feel you, but that’s why the fan vote is so important. Unless the players and coaches are on the exact page about who the (2) best guards in the East are, they are likely just splitting votes against each other.

There is no consensus name that is being overly screwed in the fan vote for them to rally behind either.

Maxey, Brunson, Dame, Spida, are each equally deserving. The New England market alone will push Derrick White and Brown to both make it which will sacrifice votes from the other guys. In the end, if Trae stays as the #2 fan vote guard, it’s extremely hard to supplant him in a year with so many other options to choose from vs 1 or 2 strong and obvious candidates.

Google search Herb Jones and every one and their mama are chomping at the bit right now to get him after this article. 
Going to be a ton of competition for his services.

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Bogi says 'hi boo'. 

Shhhh, don’t tell him. Let him work his agenda lol

So, what are we thinking now?

Hold DJ until summer when we can revisit the KAT stuff?

Make a couple of mid level moves to get off contracts in the interim?

21 minutes ago, terrell said:

Murray is free of the shackles tonight and can just go be himself at PG......His REAL position....

Good start but its early.. lol

 

Was thinking this same thing. There shouldn’t be any excuse for lack of offense or defense production at his natural position tonight.

We have always been an offensive engine with Trae.

We have always struggled on defense.

Yet somehow we look worse at both aspects under Quinn.

Im more disappointed in our defensive output. We have outright fallen off a cliff even after starting the season off pretty solid on that end.

It is very obvious to me that whatever the issue is with our personnel, Quin has dug in and said no, he will not change his approach to help the talent on this roster just to win games now.

My issue is he is very clearly sacrificing wins and loses for some bigger vision that nobody but he, LF and Trae can see, apparently.

I don’t think he is a bad coach. He is definitely coming across as a stubborn one though.