RedDawg#8

Better question, if we get our picks back does that mean we can convince Travis to come back too?

“Just kidding about that DJ trade, Travis, no harm no foul, right?”

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

We’re 14 and 21. We’re a bad team that’s poorly constructed.

I’ll take the picks back.

Picks don’t win chips.

BUT

Picks can be used to acquire players who can help win chips.

Rookies and the AJ Griffins of the world are not enough to go against the top teams with proven All-NBA players.

Take the Spurs. They have a ton of draft picks and young players. They finally drafted a centerpiece and what’s the first thing you hear? They are willing to come off ALL of those picks they acquired to put a veteran talent around their young superstar.

Drafting is a huge crap shoot and it takes YEARS for these kids to become viable players. A 2025 #16 overall pick is not what is going to keep Trae from leaving town. 

22 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

That’s cuz you ain’t ever seent me carry a squad. 

You been carrying us for years lol

JC is not a bad player or person. I wish people could separate a bad contract (not terrible, just bad) from their opinion of him. You don’t have to root against the guy just to feel better about JJ or the Hawks for that matter. He helped us win a lot of games and since the ECF season our record with him healthy and in the lineup vs without him stands up against many other house favorites around here.

In the same breath, there doesn’t have to be an ounce of regret just to say nice things about the guy. We moved on, but for some reason our side are the ones acting like the bitter exes in the breakup.

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Update: Spurs are probably the leading contender to get DJM at this point in time. They can not only offer our own picks back but have other real firsts and not fake firsts to offer. Keldon Johnson would be the most likely player coming back to us.

Kelden is Pop’s golden boy, that would be a major development if he not only trades him but includes the picks. Kelden is so beloved and overrated in SA that I am surprised Pop isn’t demanding a 1 for 1 swap. He is their “OG Anonouby” lol

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The great thing about this play is that Trae recognizes that Cole Anthony only had 5 seconds to do something with the ball.  So he comes off of his man and blitz Anthony, which took him completely by surprise.

Perfect technique with him sliding his feet to the left.  Then he tracked Cole all the way going back to the right to get the block before he got to the top of his jump.

That was an Alex Caruso type of play that he made here.

If Trae becomes a defensive playmaker it’s game over. Next improvement will be turnovers.

22 minutes ago, Sothron said:

If we move good players we will get good returns. 

I get there is zero confidence in our FO because of giving away other players for nothing.

…, and in return get young guys and picks. Those can be conveyed for upgrades either at the deadline, with a three team deal or in the offseason.

….and go into the offseason loaded with assets to make trades for established stars.

I hear you, and appreciate you for making clear we are not rebuilding.

But like you said, I have almost no faith that we will:

a) acquire the kind of assets other teams will find attractive. (If teams were attracted to them, how would we out bid anyone to get them first?)

b) successfully flip those assets for established “stars” that fit. (See DJM)

c) get value back in any trade that helps us on the court (see every Hawks trade ever)

I feel like we are in this position because we tried and failed to each of these things already.

I feel like we should be collecting expirings and hope to be players in FA, not in trades or the draft. Trae needs vets around him not more youth. Experience wins in the NBA, not youth.

No better way to start off the day/week than with an agenda!

Thanks for the breakdown @benhillboy have a happy Monday!

I truly believe OO, and likely others, are struggling with whatever concepts Quinn wants to run.

OO still makes eye popping plays but just not as often. He still has elite physical ability and defensive skillset, but he is often not in position to do anything with it.

It’s like he is a rookie again where the game is moving too fast. I see this from a lot of our guys. We have some high level basketball players on this team that have been used to a coach/system that took advantage of their talent individually. Quinn is putting in a system that takes 5 guys on the same page on both sides and it may take you away from your strengths for the betterment of the whole.

Clint and OO used to feast in drop PnR coverage protecting the paint, Quinn wants them up. He want wings to close in on the paint which is why open three’s are killing us and we have no physical resistance at the rim anymore because the rotation are small bodies.

OO in theory should excel better in this scheme because he is more mobile than CC but he is also having to read a larger field of view with more defensive responsibilities.

It’s going to take time for a lot of guys to figure out the nuances and their spots. It’s no longer about talent anymore. It takes IQ. I think that’s why Trae has excelled after such a rough start, because he is a brilliant basketball player. Same with JJ. He was actually more limited in the Nate scheme. He is showcasing all of his basketball tools in Quinn’s scheme because it calls for that versatility.

I don’t know that effort is all that would help. Because doing too much in this scheme hangs your teammates out to dry. Just like we said in October with Trae, OO needs time to adjust and figure his new spots out.

20 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

I know of no other basketball player that runs up and down the court on his tippy toes other than Jalen Johnson.  Other than that, dude is a Allstar in the making, tippy toes or not.

He even hugs on his tippy toes, lmao

Apparently tippy toe walking is a sign of autism, which would be dope if JJ turns out abnormally proficient at basketball as his high-level trait.

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@Sothron

You beat me to it!

I think this also speaks to the behind the scenes agreement Soth was referring to that he didn't want to reveal yet. 

Wondering if that is why OO signed his deal now too......

2 hours ago, AHF said:

That only works if you own your own picks.  The Hawks have to retool not do a tear down rebuild.  I’m hoping we would deal with a team like OKC, Houston, etc. with a bunch of young talent and picks which wants a former All-Star vet in his prime on a good longterm contract. 
 

The picks we get back in a trade are only of significant value if we can flip them promptly as part of a rebuild or the team we are trading with has a good chance to suck (like trading him to Detroit would be great from that perspective).  A first round pick that will be the 26th in the draft is not worth much to us in our current position.

Let me also add that both the Kev and JC trades were dump trades with clear motivations.  Kev was traded in the offseason to make sure we had zero chance of paying the tax (no risk of trying to deal him mid season and him getting hurt) but his contract and his play had value so we got a first back.  JC was a toxic contract traded at the absolute low point of his career to again ensure there was zero chance of us paying the tax.

Right now we are roughly $10M below the tax line.  There is zero risk of us paying the tax already.  Unlike JC, DM is quite valuable on his contract which looks amazing compared to someone like FVV’s deal. There is no rushing need to deal him other than that you need to reshape the roster.  Unlike the Kev and JC deals, this deal is about where we want to be as a franchise in a few years not about getting off a bad contract or getting under the tax line.  This better be a trade for basketball value not a dump deal where you hope to just get back something.

Nothing you just said is wrong in logic, but it is ignoring ALL of the smoke that has been coming out.

DJ wants to be traded, that is starting to leak with even the Shams of the world so it is true and we fans aren’t the only ones who know it. That removes the leverage that we have in controlling his value contract.

Soth says a deal is as good as done that could go down the very moment he becomes trade eligible. Mikey leaked a destination, you can do math for yourself what assets are in that entire city.

This is not about what we SHOULD do, this is dealing with the ongoing information of what we WILL do. Everything is pointing to the increasing possibility that we will get less than ideal value back in return for dealing Murray.

And that is where the comparisons come from regarding Kev and JC trades. We can explain them away in hindsight but nobody was pleased at the time with basically giving those two away. We are headed there again based on how much you believe the inside intel. We are not winning any trades and you can add DJ to the list by the sounds of it.

If you can’t get talent in return, the  only thing left is picks and capspace. What have we shown we can do between those options?

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

NY only has one young player that you would consider as having any value, Grimes.  That return would suck.  
Please tell me you mean the other NY team, Brooklyn.  
Fournier, Grimes and picks?  That is nightmare fuel.  

On God I am praying that it’s Brooklyn, but all the smoke has been coming from the Knicks so I doubt it.

Sellers means we are more interested in getting off of our own players and their contracts than we are in “winning” a trade.

Think the early Schlenk trades to get back assets along with filler contracts.

I do not think we are getting any young player(s) that will be needle movers in any deal.

Look no further than the trades we have made in recent memory with Kev and JC. Those are the best examples of what is about to come if we truly are sellers right now.

I’m not intending to be negative but you have to look at track record with this current front office. They have not proven the savvy or the gumption to execute winning trades with other teams. Doesn’t mean they haven’t tried, but the clear message in switching from buyers to sellers indicates they have thrown in the towel on improving via trade. It’s about clearing the books now.

36 minutes ago, kg01 said:

In terms of making a major roster move despite being in a good position team-wise.  Wasn't comparing them as players, just comparing the situation. 

The rest of us understood Kg, no worries. It was a good example.

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What's happened to OO, his energy, toughness, grit?

Got the bag

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Quin: we need good defenders

Landry: okay working on getting KAT for DJ

Indiana keeps showing that great offense can be defense. You keep getting teams down double digits early in games and they start getting away from their own gameplan trying to keep up. 

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Bufkin was an excellent defender in college his 2nd year. He's a left handed almost virtual clone of DJM. Him getting serious minutes if not starting next season at SG should be expected.

Bufkin’s emergence in College Park has to be a factor in our willingness to move on from DJM. He is on pace to either be Trae’s backup or like you said, start at SG sooner than later.

Pippen is an alcoholic who has lost half his mind.

Can we use another comp for JJ?

Smoove’s natural shot blocking prowess makes him a tough comp for me as well. I think JJ is a better ball handler as well. Very equal otherwise.