RedDawg#8

6’4 is not small for a SG. You have 6’4 guys playing full time at SF these days; Josh Hart, Bruce Brown, JaeSean Tate.

Isiah (6’1), Dumars (6’3) and Vinny Johnson (6’2) showed you can win with small guards on the floor together.

We have to stop getting stuck on inches and pay attention to toughness and mindset. A guy can have size and still play small and vice versa. Hell, Bey has size.

Whoever is playing with Trae needs to be aggressive and tough. We thought DJ was that kind of dude. We lack that mindset more than any thing else.

Lakers don’t have real assets. They really just need to stop all the cap with these trade rumors.

edit:

Lakers don’t have real assets THAT THEY ARE WILLING TO TRADE.

56 minutes ago, shakes said:

I'm sorry, what?   you coached an intramural team?  That's like saying you coach pick up ball down at the Y.

I wasn’t bragging by any means and yes that is exactly what it was like lol

I was moreso just trying to use a first hand example and that’s all I had to go off of lol

I agree that Trae has to be smarter in his approach with the refs.

For instance, when I coached our intramural team, we blatantly were getting hacked with no calls from the refs. Our best players were arguing for calls to no avail.

At one point I shouted to OUR team loud enough for the refs to hear “Stop arguing calls, just play, they are not calling fouls for us tonight, the whistle is not coming, so just play through it!!” 

To which everyone could feel the sentiment. I was not speaking to an official, I didn’t go after anyone directly, but the refs knew I was not happy. The very next trip down we got whistle in our favor. It’s like, they needed the wake up call too. The lead ref came to me and apologized later saying he missed some calls.

I was frustrated, I was heated, our team was emotional, and even though I was being passive aggressive, I made my point without escalating the situation.

Trae has to learn how to voice his frustrations without attacking anyone directly. These refs are sensitive divas too. You have to hold their hand and protect their egos too.

The best thing Trae could do honestly is every time there is a BS call or no-call against him is show the ref his back. Don’t say anything, just look away. No gestures or words. Don’t give them any attention. Go to a teammate and chat through the next play or assignment. The refs will get the same effect. They will feel frozen out. But you can’t get a “T” for ignoring. Next time you speak you keep it short. “Great game”, walk away.

They would get the message and honestly feel worse at some point to where they are like aight, Let me try something else to get attention from him. 

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The only problem with suggesting Trae is that we could have taken him and not made the trade.  It was Dallas who traded up.   The question is, if Dallas had not offered that first round pick, would we have drafted Trae?  Still, I can go with your logic.   I originally went with Trae being our pick until @Watchman reminded me that Trae was here because  of a trade. 

Everything that came out from that time said that Luka was top of our board and we would have been fine keeping him, and that Trae was right there as well. The only motivation for the trade (beyond Quavo telling the FO Trae would be a better fit for the city) was ironically Schlenk’s school of thought that he wanted more swings at the plate to find talent. He valued that extra first round pick more than he valued Luka.

So if we believe this then Luka would have been the pick without the additional pick offered from Dallas.

This a a reminder to those that are asset seekers, that having a bunch of picks will always pale in comparison to finding one legit premium talent. With all of our draft picks from that rebuild we are sitting here with Trae and Jalen as our (2) cornerstones moving forward. That’s the gamble of relying on the draft.

21 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Stealing a roster spot because of his brother .

 

 

Proof that size and length do not equal basketball talent/skill.

56 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

Being serious, I wouldn't mind Wiggins if we were trading one of our other pieces. But DJM feels a bit too expensive to get Wiggins back. I'm trying not to be one of those fans who say nothing is good enough for our players, but Wiggins just hasn't been good. 

This. If we’re moving Dre or AJ for him that’s one thing. But for DJ? Nah

I HATEA playing against Rick Carlisle teams. He calls quick timeouts to stop any kind of momentum and he has consistently ran bodies at Trae at halfcourt to get him off the ball and disrupt our offensive rhythm.

It’s always an awkward, herky jerky game flow against his teams.

Not so much trapping tonight but it’s coming.

Wondering who will be the first to blame Trae for that run the Pacers just went on while he was sitting on the bench lol

2 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

You guys are looking at numbers in a vacuum, forget that Joe played in a completely different era pre GS warrior revolution and that he was putting up those numbers for a fourth seed team instead of a 9th seed team, etc. forget all that. How many All Star games did Joe make as a Hawk his first two seasons. How good was he defensively vs Murray?

I don’t disagree that the different era played a factor, but Joe had free reign and the ball in his hands as the #1, Murray is doing this not just as the #2 guy, but next to a ball dominant guard that takes a lot of scoring and assist opportunities away from DJ. 
I think the 2 balance out.

Joe was bigger and better on defense, yes.

2 hours ago, Sothron said:

To echo what @thecampster said: Quin wants a different roster. There's simply no other way to say it. They want to get taller, heavier and flat out more physical as an entire team. This isn't the case of just swapping one guy for another. Quin believes Trae is such a dynamic offensive engine he can simply elevate players who are good on defense/iffy on offense to at least be good enough to win with because of the Trae effect.

The team wants real size and length back in any trade. I think they would ideally want to move Jalen to SF where he can flat out bully ball 70% of the SFs in the NBA if not more while also with his 40% or so 3pt shooting still provide spacing.

Well then I would have to say that Quinn gets it.

Build this thing like the Bad Boy Pistons and surround Zeke, I mean Trae, with size, physicality, and toughness, and let Trae go to work.

We are already seeing him transform in to a scrappy and timely defensive playmaker despite his size.

As long as these big dudes can hit an outside shot, we will be just fine. JJ unlocks this whole thing. He has the playmaking ability that we can put on the court with Trae and not lose anything. Trae and the goons, I love it.

TNT broadcast just name dropped DJ as the Lakers’ top trade target. Stating “the Lakers really want to add speed to their backcourt, the name to look out for, DeJounte Murray.”

If the Hawks happen to string together a few wins this weekend I predict DJ’s availability for trade will shift. Especially with the lack of value in return or fit on the receiving team for him. He is only open to being traded as long as it makes sense. Ball watching Lebron, playing next to Brunson, or playing in Toronto are not appealing to DJ I’m sure. 
 

With 4 winnable games coming up the locker room could feel much different in a week.

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

• Los Angeles has continued to tell teams it doesn’t want to part with Austin Reaves, sources said. There does seem to be a pathway for a Murray-to-Los Angeles deal if the Lakers would be willing to include Reaves, sources said, although that would require the Hawks to send back more value for Los Angeles’ liking. Around the league, D’Angelo Russell’s $17 million salary has not been viewed as a valuable trade chip for the Lakers to bolster their roster behind LeBron James and Anthony Davis.

• New York is looking at various avenues to upgrade its point guard depth behind Jalen Brunson, sources said, while the Knicks also continue to evaluate center options because of Mitchell Robinson’s ankle surgery. Although with Murray in favor of a fresh start, according to sources with knowledge of the situation, it seems questionable that adding the former All-Star to pair with another ball-dominant lead guard like Brunson would have much different results than Murray’s partnership with Young. Of note: When Atlanta and New York discussed the 2022 trade that brought Cam Reddish to the Knicks, the Hawks valued Quentin Grimes during those talks, sources said.

• Philadelphia is not in any rush to add a piece or burn any of the Sixers’ newfound draft capital by way of the Harden trade, sources said. Philly has been conducting due diligence on various point guards available for the trade market — although Tyus Jones doesn’t seem to be a target to keep in mind for the Sixers, sources said. If the Hawks don’t operate with urgency to find a deal, perhaps a trade could come to fruition for Murray closer to the deadline. That being said, there’s little expectation among league figures that the Sixers will pursue Siakam or LaVine during this trade window.

• Miami has left rival teams with the impression that the reigning Eastern Conference champions are looking for ball-handling reinforcements. The Heat are another suitor to keep an eye on for Murray, although there hasn’t been anything substantive beyond initial talks between Atlanta and Miami at this point, sources said.

• Detroit can and should have all kinds of options on its board while mired in the league’s cellar at just 3-34. While head coach Monty Williams has routinely shifted his lineups with the mind of figuring out what personnel maximizes franchise engine Cade Cunningham, landing Murray would mark an intriguing upside swing for a rebuilding organization that shared aspirations of competing for the play-in this season. The Pistons being another team monitoring Siakam indicates Detroit is evaluating bigger improvements to the league’s lowest team, even if smaller tweaks are more likely for the Pistons.

• Brooklyn has been another potential Murray destination mentioned by multiple league personnel, as the Nets are seen as an ideal spot from Murray’s side of this dynamic, sources said. But Brooklyn and Atlanta haven’t shared significant dialogue to this point, sources said, and the Nets don’t appear to be actively pursuing Murray at this juncture.

  The Bulls have also inquired about Murray, league sources told Yahoo Sports, as part of Chicago’s exploratory efforts to return All-Star talent for LaVine. Yet those talks never gained much traction with the Hawks, sources said. And while the Spurs continue to be mentioned by league personnel as a potential landing spot for Murray, San Antonio does not currently bill as a probable outcome for Atlanta’s trade approach either, sources said.

The best individual player mentioned in all of these scenarios is Lavine. Offensively he is the best fit for an off guard or wing next to Trae who can light it up. Think Bogi with hops. But defensively…….. Quinn would be having nightmares.

Brooklyn has the best player assets and is the best landing spot for Murray.

Both are viewed as the least likely trade partners for the Hawks. Go figure.

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Although it's The Ringer, worth the read.

 

Snippets:

Trae’s greatest gift is his perception of illusion and how subtle sleights of hand affect others on the court. Some of the most effective pick-and-roll plays are the ones that never happen, the ones that Young rejects as soon as he sees the defense tilt to take away one perceived advantage. In a sense, Young has gamed the system: He is a seemingly inefficient player who paradoxically can power an elite offense in his sleep. Case in point: The Hawks have five players (Clint Capela, Onyeka Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, De’Andre Hunter, Bogdan Bogdanovic) who have logged at least 10 possessions as the roll man in the pick-and-roll this season. Together, they’ve averaged 1.3 points per possession, a rate of offense higher than either Giannis Antetokounmpo or Nikola Jokic in that play type.

 

Atlanta’s heliocentric offense, which has catered to Young from the second he was acquired, functions almost entirely off of his otherworldly touch, which flows as a gradient in the space between the half-court line and the rim. His reputation as a shooter gives him the space to slither into the lane for floaters, but the setup and movement patterns on his floater are almost identical to how he sets up a lob pass—never mind how Young’s advantage creation with vertical spacers like Capela and Okongwu opens things up on the perimeter. The Hawks offense works the way it does because Young, despite his size, is essentially Yu Darvish on the hardwood, creating a whole array of potential outcomes from a single release point.

 

Trae has yet to play with a star good enough to convince him that playing off the ball is a worthier venture than the efficient pick-and-roll attack he’s already established as a bread and butter. 

I mean…. tell us something new, those of us that support Trae have been saying this for years but the “he’s too little” crowd gets louder by the day.

I really like the length of Claxton and newfound defensive effort of Dennis Smith. Both are FA’s this offseason. Claxton could fit next to JJ or OO up front.

13 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

We have a brutal 7 games in 11 night stretch starting tomorrow.  Only 2 of those games are vs teams under .500.

But the injuries to Embiid and Haliburton have opened the door for the Hawks to possibly go on a 5 game win streak in these next 5 home games.  Anything less than 4 - 1 would be a colossal failure by this team.

It's not like the schedule coming up are teams you can put a for sure "L" beside our name.  All of these games are winnable the rest of the month.

 

These next 12 games will decide our season.  All of the home games are winnable.  No less than 8 - 1 at home, if they want to save this season.  Take 1 out of 3 on the road.  Hawks need to go 9 - 3 in this stretch to get back close to .500. 

 

I agree with everything in principle. But in practice, without Quinn planning any changes to lineup or strategy, the front office not committed to winning this season, and with no one safe in these trade rumors, etc… I don’t see this team running on to the court with some newfound confidence and enthusiasm.

This team lost it’s fight in those 14 games Jalen missed. They realized how overmatched they were and there was no help from coaching or the FO to do anything about it.

We are in a big hole and our 2nd best player is on the outs. I guarantee the players in the locker room hear way more rumors on themselves than we do as fans. Not a single player feels committed to a winning cause this season. They don’t know if they will be here in a few weeks.

I want to be hopeful, but this season just ain’t it for the Hawks.

Based purely on product and results it’s not even a question. Even Prunty got more out of this core roster than Quinn has.

But, I am giving him the benefit of doubt, maybe foolishly, maybe because I have no other choice.

Quinn had (2) losing seasons in Utah before they became perennial winners. I do buy the idea that his system takes time to implement. Heck even Bud started with a losing record his first season in charge. This brand of basketball is not for the faint of mind.

The Hawks stopped developing players when they switched from LP to Nate, so a lot of our young guys have hit a re-set on their clock under Quinn as he works against bad habits that have not been coached out. You don’t look this lost on defense as a team compared to just last season when the only player you lost was JC. They didn’t forget how to play, they are learning a new language.

Quinn has a great staff, he has some great basketball minds working behind the scenes. I absolutely hate his utilization of personnel in the face of injury or foul trouble, but I am accepting that he is not willing to put a band aid on this roster anymore just so we can have style points and win now. He is absolutely committed to tearing down the old way of playing so that our ceiling raises from just good to potentially great some day.

Again, I could be foolish but what choice do we have but to buy in?

22 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

Wonder why he has went to the bench?

Great question. From an outside perspective it looks like they wanted more spacing in the starting lineup around Wemby. Champagnie was the guy inserted into the lineup in KJ’s place. KJ is .344 from 3 and Champagnie is shooting .391%

Other than that, Keldon is still playing the most minutes on the team at over 32 a night off the bench while Champagnie is still hovering just below 20 mpg as a starter, so it’s giving Ginobli vibes.