BackForThe2ndTime

Reluctantly here. I really hope this Hawks season isn't as uneventful as it seems it'll be. Hoping to see the arrow pointing up on all of our young guys.

It should also be noted that Wikipedia has the Banks County population as 93% white. Lmao. Shows you just how insane some of the earlier assumptions made in this thread were. Sure they get a lot of people traveling through, but that's still beyond absurd just to fathom.

Probable cause is always a consideration when search and seizures happen like this. It's always considered based on facts specific to an individual case. The NBC article quotes one part of the judge's summation where he states there was no probable cause in basic lawyer talk. I haven't seen the entire summation, but the defense could have said they didn't like his car if they wanted. Legally, the burden of proof is not even on the defense. If the cops can't justify the initial stop (broken tail light, speeding, swerving, ran a red light etc.), they effed up. This is textbook 4th amendment and cops screwing it up have gotten people off on a lot more than drug possession. Yes. That is how a confessions works. No. I am not suggesting that he gave a false confession. I don't know. Liberally just means you're interpreting the term loosely in this context. Not that you're lying. Confession or not, if the cops don't eff up the stop, someone is getting charged and this isn't a Columbo case. To suggest that Mike Scott had no shot without this ruling because of the confession is misinterpreting the purpose of the confession. Mike Scott simply "took the charge" by claiming possession. He didn't hand the cops crucial evidence lol. He said "take me".

Par for the course. This is exactly the type of thing people say to blur the line between truth and fiction when there is no logical argument to be made. I get what he was saying. It was just extremely misguided. He took an anecdote (that was misunderstood-more on this later) from this one story and used it to justify a wild claim. To start, there is no real defense here. The ruling was that the cop had no probable cause to pull the car over. Therefore, the evidence obtained from the stop (basically the whole case) was tainted and thrown out. Hence, no trial. As far as the "a white who was arbitrarily stopped would not have this defense to rely on", that's factually incorrect. It's also not really a defense. This is literally the 4th amendment and does (should) apply to every United States citizen. Probable cause must be had to justify this type of search and seizure. The lawyer used the racial angle to build a narrative that tried to explain the officer's reasoning. In the eyes of the law, the fact that they didn't have probable cause is all that matters. And lawyers good and bad make that case on a daily basis all across America. Mike Scott found one. Also, the term confession is being used pretty liberally here. Didn't he get caught with the drugs and claimed possession (instead of his brother)? They had somebody in that car dead to rights. That's a straight forward drug possession charge. There are stats about that....and they fit the same pattern that I outlined earlier. Whether you find your research on the internet or the library, it's out there. Nothing about his original post made sense.

WHAT?!?!? I don't care if it's only been an hour. HOW THE HELL has no one managed to call you out on this BS? [Deleted personal insult] Secondly, if you somehow cannot deduce how absurd your comment is on your own, do a tiny bit of research. A simple internet search will lead you to tons of research on this topic. A ton of research that shows minorities (often across income levels) are more likely to be stopped, searched, arrested, convicted (wrongly convicted/exonerated), harshly sentenced, excluded from juries and killed (unplanned and planned/death penalty) . Shown less favor at numerous points throughout the justice/legal system. And there is much less research that shows equality or an opposite pattern. [Deleted personal insult]

Expectations are low....so I feel okay about this. Go Hawks!

If there's any chance Milsap signs next year, I don't know how you trade him to retain Horford. Unless this is a full out one bird in the hand type of thinking. This offense could really bog down without Milsap and Teague to create shots/space. Not that it's tanking, but don't see likely avenues for this team improving without Milsap here. Thankfully, I'm not an NBA GM though. I'll stay optimistic, but I feel like a sign and trade for Horford might be the best outcome here.

The Atlanta Hawks face major roster questions this summer. Should they bring back Al Horford andKent Bazemore on big contracts? Who is their point guard of the future? Our NBA Insider crew forecasts the future for the Hawks. 1. What do you foresee and advise for the Hawks this offseason? Kevin Arnovitz, ESPN.com: The Hawks will try to parlay their new ownership group led by Tony Ressler (that also includes Grant Hill), their state-of-the-art training facility (which will include a P3 training center) and the new direction of the basketball operations under coachMike Budenholzer to land some serious meetings with serious free agents. That has historically been the rub for their Hawks -- they've never been regarded by the league as a place where a top-line talent would want to set down roots. This is the summer the Hawks would like to see that change. EDITOR'S PICKS 2016 NBA playoffs: Complete coverage Keep track of every NBA playoff series all postseason long. Jeremias Engelmann, ESPN Insider: I would trade starting point guard Jeff Teague to get a younger wing player, asKyle Korver is already 34 and has significantly declined from last season. Maybe they can pry Rodney Hood away from the Utah Jazz, who seem to have an uncertain PG situation. Steve Ilardi, ESPN Insider: I would advise the Hawks to avoid the easy, obvious path this offseason, and instead to follow the Portland Trail Blazers' model for completely rebooting the franchise. That would mean letting Horford and Bazemore walk, trading Teague, and sniffing out value contracts -- this summer's equivalents of guys such as Al-Farouq Aminu, Mason Plumlee, and Ed Davis -- to add to a Hawks' core of Paul Millsap, Dennis Schröder, Tiago Splitter, Mike Scott and Korver. Bradford Doolittle, ESPN Insider: Plan A is re-signing Horford. Even if long-term you feel like you'll need to shuffle the deck, he's good enough that you could trade him, max deal or not. Or you could trade Paul Millsap. Losing Horford wouldn't be the worst thing, though, because you could then pursue somebody such as Dwight Howard or Hassan Whiteside to keep the defense elite while improving the rebounding. Elsewhere, I think you need to choose either Jeff Teague or Dennis Schröder at point guard, and do what you can to retain Kent Bazemore. Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider: The Hawks seem to find themselves in a similar point as much of the past decade -- good but not good enough to beat LeBron James' team. Atlanta taking the temperature on big deadline trades, along with the disappointing end to the season, seems to suggest the organization is not committed to simply maxing out Al Horford and keeping the band together. At the same time, it's hard to find an alternative, and only Cleveland is clearly better in the East going forward. So I think they will re-sign Horford but perhaps let Kent Bazemore walk and again look for the next Bazemore. 2. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta should offer Al Horford a max contract. Pelton: It certainly shouldn't be their first offer, given the likelihood that the last year of that contract ($33.6 million in 2020-21, when Horford will be 34) will get ugly. But if it's the only way to re-sign Horford, I would reluctantly say yes because I think another team would still be willing to acquire Horford early in the deal, when it's more favorable, should the Hawks go another direction. Doolittle: Fact. Unless you know you can use his salary slot on Kevin Durant, keeping Horford is your best option. Again, he's good enough to be a trade piece if you want to go that direction at a later date. Engelmann: Fact, but I'd try to make it a four-year deal. While Horford doesn't strike me as a player likely to fall off a cliff due to age, you probably don't want to be paying him max money at the age of 34. For the next couple of seasons, though, he will probably be worth a max contract -- he ranks 24th in Real Plus-Minus (RPM). Ilardi: Fiction. Horford is easily one of the top 25 players in the league, but he's still not worth nearly $30 million per year over the next five seasons. For perspective, his production of 10.6 RPM Wins this season was worth about $21 million in 2015-16 salary, and about $28 million in inflated 2016-17 dollars. Since Horford will land on the wrong side of 30 this summer, we would expect his productivity to decline every season of his next contract. Simply put: Teams do not win championships by overpaying their aging stars on lengthy new contracts. Arnovitz: Fact, even though it will require a slight overpayment on the back end. Horford's game should age well and this season he made nice strides in his range, hitting 34.4 percent of his attempts from beyond the arc. He remains one of the most agile big pick-and-roll defenders in the NBA, and he's an essential cog in the Hawks' steady culture. What should the Hawks do about Kent Bazemore this summer? Jason Miller/Getty Images 3. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta should offer Kent Bazemore a big contract. Arnovitz: Fiction, though if Atlanta owned Bazemore's Bird Rights, this might be a different story. Just as DeMarre Carroll left for a bigger number in Toronto, Bazemore will likely find a bidder who has greater financial flexibility than Atlanta. This is yet another silly quirk in the league's incentive structure, whereby a team isn't afforded any help in retaining a talented young player who tirelessly developed his skills in their program. A better CBA would allow Atlanta to offer what they wished without the cap implications. Doolittle: Fact. Bazemore shows the ability to provide value either as a complementary player or even as a No. 3 offensive option, along with plus defensive ability and versatility. Also, it's tough to find quality wings, so if you have one, you keep him. Ilardi: Fiction. Bazemore finished the season with a Predictive RPM below -2.0, which puts his overall productivity near "replacement level." Sure, he has occasional flashes of on-court brilliance, but they should not detract from the fact that he fails to make his team better on a consistent basis. It would be a huge mistake for the Hawks to hand him a big new contract. Pelton: It would be tough to see another two-way small forward walk out the door after DeMarre Carroll left in free agency last year, and Bazemore's deal is likely to be a better value because he's just entering his prime years. Still, the track record of Hawks University is good enough (Justin Holiday aside) that I'd try to hit another Bazemore/Carroll-style home run -- but this time with a three-year deal giving Atlanta full Bird Rights if that player pans out. Engelmann: Fiction. One argument in his favor is that he's only 26. But his RPM was below average, 30th-best among small forwards. Smart teams don't offer big contracts to players that are, at best, average. 4. Point guard of the future: Jeff Teague, Dennis Schröder or neither? Engelmann: To me, the situation could not be more clear-cut. The Hawks outscored opponents by only one point per 100 possessions with Teague on the court and by seven with Schröder on the court. I'd go with Schröder. Pelton: Neither. While Teague has improved his skills immensely over the past few seasons, point guards of his ilk tend to fade quickly in their early 30s or even late 20s, so I wouldn't want to be on the hook for his next contract. Schröder hasn't yet shown the kind of maturity or decision-making necessary to hand him the keys to an offense that depends on good decisions. Ilardi: Teague and Schröder were both below-average PGs this past season, but at least Schröder is still improving -- he's only 22 -- and still on a cheap rookie deal. I would advise the Hawks to roll the dice with Schröder as their starting 1 next season and to deal Teague this summer for a couple of quality role players. Arnovitz: Though he can drive a sane spectator crazy with his inconsistency, Schröder is probably the answer here given the vested interest of the front office, and because he better personifies the kind of competitiveness Budenholzer likes to see in a point guard. Teague has played well in Atlanta at the bargain price of $8 million for a number of seasons. But with the final year of his deal slate for next season, that nice Quality-Price Ratio is about to expire. Doolittle: Schröder. It's a tough call, but Schröder's numbers are comparable to Teague's already and they have a lot of room for growth. With Teague having just the one year left on his deal, this summer is your last, best chance to trade him and get something of real value in return. 5. If the Hawks were a stock and you were looking ahead three years, would you buy, sell or hold? Arnovitz: Buy, not based on the composition of the roster as much as the upward trajectory of the enterprise as a whole. Four years ago, the Hawks offered little to no appeal as a languid franchise that could never get out of its own way. Today, Atlanta has strong leadership with a forward-looking culture and is building a top-notch infrastructure for a players-first organization. The Hawks may not win 60 games again in the next three years, but they're moving strongly in the right direction. Ilardi: Unless the Hawks are bold enough to do a Portland-style reboot this summer, I would sell. Their aging core is only going to decline in productivity over the next three years, and they will likely end up overpaying to keep them in place. Doolittle: Sell. Atlanta's core is already well into its collective prime. The Hawks need to invest in upside talent because getting lucky in that regard is the only way they close the gap with Cleveland. It's the same problem facing all the second-tier teams in the East: You can do everything right, but there is only one LeBron James to go around. Engelmann: Sell. Their three best players -- Millsap, Horford and Korver -- will all be on the wrong side of 30 by next season. It's unlikely the Hawks find adequate replacements for all three of them in the foreseeable future. Most likely they'll start a rebuild in the summer of 2017, when Korver and perhaps Millsap will come off the books. Pelton: Hold. I'm tempted to sell, but the track record of the Hawks when it comes to developing players is strong enough for me to hold in the anticipation that while the Atlanta roster might look very different in three years, the team will still be in contention in the East.

Not gonna lie. I'm nervous as hell. Just hope this team gets off to a good start. If a key player gets 2 fouls within the first couple minutes, I might just throw a fulfilling, but otherwise worthless hissyfit.

Where is this idea that last year's Cavs are better than this year's team? I know that would make the task in front of us seem easier, but I'm not seeing it. And please don't quote any stats from last year. I'm not even sure if that would help or hurt my argument. It just seems irrelevant because this team has another year of meshing, a healthy Kyrie and Love for the playoffs, and I could easily argue that the team (or maybe just Lebron) is turning it up a notch. How the hell is last year's team better?

Contain Kyrie He's the guy that has looked most improved in these playoffs. He's been balling and stroking it from three with ease. Sure LeBron will get his, but we can't let Kyrie go off at the same time. Limit Open Shots We have some serious muscle memory to break after the Celtics serious. This goes with not doubling LeBron (assuming that's the game plan), but it's also just about not being sloppy on the defense end because the Cavs will make you pay. Punish Love He's one of the biggest liabilities on defense and we have the players to take advantage of that. It also has the added plus of tiring Love and hopefully getting into his head as someone else mentioned. Run the Offense We can't go through stretches where this team plays a ton of one on one. This is mostly about Schröder, as this tends to happen when he comes in. He has to keep his cool and lead this second team, as Dellalella has added a little more than diving at knees to his repertoire this year. He could be the X factor. I would like to say Horford, but it's hard to call an Allstar an X factor. He just needs to step up. Make Shots It's simple. This is a make or miss league. We have to shoot well to take down the Cavs. We won't get the luxury of those horrible shooting droughts that the Celtics went through.

Let's get it!!

Not sure what I just watched. I'm just going to go to sleep and act like this was some how part of the plan.

Lately the offense runs better with Teague in there than Schröder. Period. And it's not only because of what they provide with scoring. Teague knows how to be less dominant and let the offense develop. Even when he does dominate the ball, he's been more efficient than Schröder and taken better care of the ball.

Go back and take a look at the shots those guys got. They are a lot of transition shots they are getting up or rushed shots when the offense is not developing. You can't even honestly judge the rest of the 2nd unit, because Schröder doesn't let the offense develop nearly as much as Teague does. He doesn't facilitate at all. And it's not a new thing. It hasn't changed, which tells me it can't bother Bud that much. So it's on him. If you're of the opinion that Hinrich isn't even good enough to facilitate the offense, then it's still on him because he shipped Mack out of here. And this is coming from someone who thought trading Teague and handing the keys to Schröder wouldn't be a bad idea. Hard to still feel that way based on his recent play.

When we are struggling to maintain when our second team comes in, I would disagree that Hinrich isn't an option. I don't necessarily think we have to bench Schröder, but the he consistently plays like a guy who has the green light. Then he consistently get distracted on little vendettas. There was a sequence where Schröder made a mistake on offense and before it even happened, I'm sure all of us knew he was about to get a stupid foul on Delly and sure enough he did. It's on Coach Bud at this point.

Sooooo....How many times are we gonna let Schröder come in the game and just kill any momentum we have?

Ouch. This could have been a signature win. The team fought back when both teams played great in spurts and bad during others. Don't want to dwell on the LeBron no calls right right now (it was some bs), but the biggest pain point was obvious. I know the entire bench didn't help much tonight, but Schröder just gums up the offense and messes with the game flow when he comes in. Not just the turnovers, but he takes the energy out of the ball like a Harden or Melo would, but he's neither of those guys right now. I can't even be mad at him anymore. Bud can't be too upset about it because it sure looks like he's given some type of greenlight out there with the offense. I love the aggressiveness, but he's not talented enough to make that many mistakes at the moment. Recent games make me feel stupid for envisioning him as Teague's replacement anytime soon. The other obvious issue in this game was the game tying and game winning situations. Goodness gracious. I'm fine with missing a shot, but our attempts look pathetic. I get the last one was somewhat on the fly, but both were horribly set up.

Pretty excited about this game with how the team has been playing. Cautiously optimistic.

Ouch.... Am I the only one who caught the play where Korver not only didn't box his man out, but literally stood to the side and looked up at the rim as his man ran by him and pulled down the rebound? The rebounding is definitely the dead horse we keep beating, but it's just that bad. This team doesn't deserve to win with plays like that.

Hardaway aside, the f*ckery we pulled in the draft left a sour taste in my mouth. Were we just trying to be cute or what? I liked the Splitter acquisition at the time. Don't even remember the details, but things happen. Not as upset about that one.

I'm really not sure if you're arguing for or against keeping him. My point is what he gives us now isn't worth that and so what's to come sure as hell isn't worth it.

Al has to go either now or this summer. Ask yourself. If we pay him the max, what are we going to get from him that he hasn't already given us? The problem we have with rebounds is one we can't keep ignoring. Add that to the fact that this team refuses to play Horford at the 4 and it's a wrap folks. He has to go and he is not a max player for this team. Maybe for another, but not this one.

Ouch. What a slow and painful way to let this one go. The Fournier offensive foul was so egregious, but at the same time, they caught some big breaks in general in OT. Nice to see Korver continue to improve, but I still can't shake the feeling that he needs to be a sixth man for this team to reach its full potential. Even if he sustains this, we saw what happened in the playoffs last year. And him off the bench could really solidify our bench, who kind of let us down tonight. If Millsap, Teague, Horford and Baze can't carry the offensive load for our starting five, we have bigger issues.

Felt like we were lucky to pull this one out. Awful rebounding. Nothing new, but it's so hard to watch. I can't imagine the team isn't frustrated about it too.