nathan2331

Maybe. But the rumors we've been linked to with Collins have been all over the place. The Spurs are clearly tanking and Gallo would satisfy their objectives. Collins might not be a prized asset to the rest of the league but that doesn't change his importance on this team.

Maybe Collins has been part of their larger misinformation campaign. Use him to drum up interest without being desperate to move him like it appears.

Now if we can pull off a swap of Murray for Gallo, do we look to move one of Bogi or Huerter? Or do we let Delon walk? I suppose we could keep everyone and bring Delon, Bogi and Huerter of the bench. That would be an embarrassment of riches.

I just got a call from the Atlanta Hawks subreddit. They're offering 10 memes, but none of them are good.

Hope plans on winning nothing while he's on that contract. Go get paid tho, that's an absurd contract.

I think he's done an amazing job as far as acquiring talent. I do question how he's managed the personalities on the team, but that's complete speculation on my part.

If a team utilized him more in their offense and his numbers went up, then sure he'd have more value. But I don't think he has less value just because he's a Hawk.

It was definitely poor negotiations, but I don't mind it given our success that season and the fact that JC did adapt his game to the detriment of his own stats. I keep bringing that up because that's asking a lot for a guy who still hasn't been paid yet. When you have success like we did you reward the guys that contributed to it. It may be an overpay, but it's not a crippling mistake. You're right that a lot of those players have defensive versatility, but I don't think that's a huge indictment on John that he is more limited. My problem with swapping JC for a more versatile defender is that with our current scheme if we switch a screen teams are targetting our guards, not JC. I'm not trying to say versatility is useless, but if one of our guards is switched onto the opposing teams PF, they are going to attack our guard. JC does need to be hidden when he can, but we already have great defenders that complement him. No JC is not KAT, but I do think he's valauble enough on offense that we would see a decline if we swapped him for say Murray then signed someone like PJ Tucker to replace him. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/mitchell-robinson-vs-hawks-2021 https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/mitchell-robinson-vs-hawks-2022I don't remember all these games, but Mitch Robinson hasn't been killing us since we've brought in Capela. Even if John isn't the ideal defender, we're not routinely getting killed by bigs. You can upgrade our bigs defensviely, but it's not gonna have the same impact as upgrading our perimeter defense. Hunter realistically can't be upgraded on, so it should be Bogi or Kev going out. And Trae's got to be better if he's serious about winning. Even if he's a liability due to size, there's no excuse for losing your man as much as he does. I know we've got Trae, but if we want to take a bigger step defensively, we can't play man2man and expect Capela to clean everything up. Our help defense is our biggest weakness. That's what is seperating the Warriors and the Celtics from most teams. Bringing in better invidual defenders will help, but we also need to be able to implement different coverages. A team like Miami doesn't impress me with their personnel outside of Butler and Adebayo, but they obviously play way more connected than we do. McMillan is always talking about the fist, but it doesn't translate on the court.

I think it's an interesting discussion. It's definitely worth having because the Hawks are limited in how they can improve the roster and based on the rumors it seems like the FO is on Supes side. They clearly don't see him as a foundational piece and I think it could potentially be a horrendous mistake. Supes is right that we have not been a good team when JC has had a bigger role within the offense, but I think if we ship John for an upgrade at guard we're ultimately gonna make ourselves easier to stop offensively. I'd rather swap Capela for Ayton and play through our bigs more. That's a theory that's not widely supported at all in the league though. I think we could break the mold, but teams are not investing in their bigs like I want us too.

Even still, it did coinicide with the Hawks improvement which supports Supes' argument that we don't need to be running more 1/4 PnR. I still don't agree with him, but the stats show what he's been saying.

I remember his percentages being down. But I also remember the whole team was underperforming and guys were not happy. It would be nice if this team actually played better with the ball out of Trae's hands. There you go. Yeah that shows Collins was getting less paint touches in the latter part of the season. So there was an adjustment like you're saying, and we were better for it.

I would try to counter by showing the Roll man stats from the Hawks before and after LP got fired, but it doesn't look like you can filter dates for those stats. To the best of my knowledge though, Nate didn't change the balance of PnRs between Capela and JC. And I don't think Trae has a problem scoring with JC as the roll man though. I've never seen that. The only difference I can see is that JC likes to slip a lot of screens and defenses can probably switch a 1/4 PnR easier than they can with Capela. But Trae's always found a way to score, I don't think JC as the roll man limits him in any way. If anything, it should make his life easier because JC doesn't have to roll to the basket.

This is a completely seperate thread, and you don't have to believe or agree with everything you read. Y'all don't even want to argue the subject. I don't agree with Supes conclusion, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have valid observations.

Why bring up Cam though? He's got nothing to do with this discussion.

Correllation ≠ Causation. We started running the 1/5 PnR because it's what best suited our lineup. The 1/4 PnR is still lethal, you make it sound like we cut it out the offense completely. We started winning because Capela is a much better center then the scrubs we were trotting out there, our young guys got more experience and we made other key upgrades around the roster like Bogi and Gallo. You may see things differently, but I think JC is our best roll man and one of the best in the league. The fact that he stands in the corner now is because Capela is limited on offense, not because the 1/4 PnR has been sussed out. Like I said, JC should get much more credit for his adaptability, especially when it's come at a detriment to his stats.

I do. JC has been an elite PnR big man, and Trae was still putting up numbers before Capela got here. Capela was a massive upgrade over the other centers we had before him because of all the other attributes (defense, rebounding, great screen setting, etc.) he brings to the team. But his presence reducing JC's role within the offense is not an indictment on JC. He should get more praise for adjusting and playing a smaller role without complaining. Especially considering he wasn't paid yet, he still did what he had to for the betterment of the team. These are the the PnR Roll man stats from all the Hawks bigs from 2019-2020 and this past season. It doesn't tell the full story because there are different play types, and the ball handler's reads are not all the same but I think this illustrates my point well enough. John would still be effective as our primary roll man, but he's not used like that to in order to accomodate Capela. Not because Capela is better roll man than him. JC now has to sit in the corner to make it work and he's done that admirably. The fact that his numbers are down is explainable. Now, the merits of replacing Capela with an better offensive center can be debated versus spending less on the PF position altogether. But I do think we're a better team if we swap Capela for Ayton and that's with me acknowldodging both Capela's and JC's value around the league.

He's also underutilized. That should be considered if you want to say he's overpaid.

I disagree strongly with some of the points you made. You're right that JC is more valuable to us than he is to most teams in the league, and we gave him more money than we really needed to. Given the context of an ECF appearance though, you can see why they didn't try to hardball him. Now my first objection is that a 20-10 Collins can't exist on a good team. That's BS. He's a better player now than he was in 2019. The reason he doesn't put up better numbers is that Capela has been made the primary roll man because he's as you said very limited on offense. That has forced John to become much more perimeter oriented and he's made the adjustment and the sacrifice. The 1-4 PnR works fine we just can't run it as frequently since Capela's defender is in a closer position to help contest a lob. This is something that potentially would be addressed by swapping Capela for Ayton. Secondly, you made valid criticisms of John's defense, but his defense is not the major weakpoint on our team. He did get hidden in last year's playoffs, but that's a nice benefit of playing next to great defenders. Why put him on Giannis if we have better options on the team? You say he's not a lockdown defender, but most players at that position aren't. You can't name the elite PFs that nobody in the league can guard, then emphasize the fact that Collins can't either. So while a team might have a big that presents Collins with a matchup problem, most teams don't have two. Collins may not be a versatile defender, but teams do not deliberately attack him on switches. They'd rather feast on our guards because they know a double team isn't coming. To reiterate, he's not getting exposed anymore on that end. You brought up Mitch Robinson like he could've killed us, yet he's never shown that in the regular season. Of course JC isn't a perfect player, but he's not the problem on this team. If we want to see defensive improvement why don't we look at running zone coverages more. Trae sees all different types of defenses to slow him down, yet we barely implement them ourselves (the reason being poor awareness with our perimeter defenders). I don't know why that doesn't get more criticism. We don't help well as a defense, yet it goes under the radar. That's the real difference between us and a good defense. I understand the league is looking for a different archetype than what JC provides, but there's more than one way to play basketball. We don't need an overhaul of the team, and bringing in better players alone is not gonna be enough if we're shipping out one of the biggest voices in the locker room.

Arsenal Fan TV are the real pioneers of that content on youtube. I wish American sports weren't as commercialized as it is, we don't that same level of fan engagement. Unfortunately soccer globaly is moving in that direction.

I really don't think the rest of the team likes Trae like that. Last year Solo stepped in to handle business, I think it's telling there was no reaction from us against Miami's shenanigans. I get a lot of Trae's criticism is unwarranted but I do question his quality of leadership so far. He's got plenty of time to be better, but I don't think he's managing the team well as the face of the franchise. It's not enough to be a great basketball player.

No doubt. But Warren was just about as crafty of a scorer as gets. With Griffin, while he could develop in that direction skillwise, on this team I think we'll mainly be asking him to shoot, cut to the basket and attack closeouts. With how heavily we rely on PnR, we don't need a SF to create that much for themselves. If he can get to the point where he can effectively defend guards, then sure a wider skillset could be utilized in more lineups because we wouldn't have to pidgeonhole him at SF.

Has to be. Warren was never close to Griffin's level of shooting. But he was a better scorer.

I don't think we're close to a point where we really need to be factoring in what Trae wants when making personnel decisions. The best comparison I can make is with Utah. Mitchell and Gobert clearly don't favor each other, but that doesn't mean their FO is gonna ship someone off just to accomadate the other. If they can't bring in an adequate return, both players have to deal with it. They got paid, until their contracts are close to expiring they don't have much leverage to be making demands. In regards to Atlanta, Trae isn't going anywhere anytime soon. If Collins can be moved for an upgrade, then so be it, but Trae sentiments shouldn't be a factor. To be clear, I'm not criticizing Trae because it's not like he's made public statements. But I do find it problematic it seems like he has an opinion about teammates that's respected more than others. I feel like that builds resentment. Collins isn't a superstar, but he should be considered a leader on this team. If not him then what do we really have on this roster besides Trae.

Why do we care what Trae wants? I understand he's our best player but he shouldn't be put on a pedestal. If I was JC I'd be furious with him. Not to say that JC is the same caliber of player but it should be recognized that he's sacrificed in order to accomodate Capela and now he's looked at as expendable. Why isn't the conversation based around finding a center that complements JC more, so we we can improve in a way that makes us less dependent on Trae on offense?