sturt

I do think there has to be some redesign from the routine that has the C touching the ball at the top of the key as part of the ignition to the offense. That serves some purpose if your C can screen and drop off to FT-line extended left and right for the midrange that Horf buttered his bread with, but that's not an asset (as far as I've ever seen) that D8 brings... and really, don't you want D8 within 5 ft of the rim for 95% of any possession, regardless? Seems to me, D8 can overpower nearly any other C in the league, and to take advantage of that, you want a tweak to the system that gets the ball into him in the low post early so that as he's double-teamed the ball can come back out to the arc and either move around to victimize a weak close-out, or get rapidly dumped back-in to victimize the soft spot created by the defense's attempt to recover out on the arc... which sounds a lot like this... I can imagine that, with success, opposing coaches are going to be increasingly open to using their 3rd C just to come in and use up their allotted 5 shooting fouls. Absolutely nothing that D8 can do that will have a greater effect on his success and our success than to get back to the 67 FT% neighborhood he enjoyed his rookie season. Nothing. That on its own puts us in a very realistic conversation for the EC crown, imo, all other factors being equal. Back to the original question, tho.... I'm less inclined to the increase PnR b/c if used too much, it is inconsistent with a ball movement game b/c it is premised on two players' dance. Some PnR, sure, but not more than what we already have been doing, imo.

Seeing how Plumlee just got $13m/yr for 4 yrs, Moose shouldn't be too worried about his financial future regardless. But yeah, as said in an earlier post, it seems obvious that it's either him or Scott, plain and simple.... if Scott avoids having his contract voided, Moose is out (quite possibly traded for a 2nd rounder or rights to a Euro-stash), and if not, Moose stays and gets a chance to assert himself as deserving of a next contract in ATL.

Are we on the cusp of a new generation of the Spurs offense? I would suppose we have to be.

Oh, I think if that becomes an issue, they'll get the message from Bud.... because Jack will be in the game eating up their minutes. But that said, I don't think it becomes an issue, at least for Dennis. He wouldn't have been handed the keys if there wasn't confidence that he is and will be as much a wiling distributor as a willing scorer.

Evidently Malcolm's brother and wife were victims of a shooting last night... unless I'm misunderstanding something...

Have to admit, I too forgot about OKC vs Heat in 12.

"Um. @hazer. I'm standing right here." :D

Don't think I actually read the thread, but I recall someone posting something shortly after the Dwight announcement that he'd invoked the "c word." That and this have really compelled me to think about what it means to have someone on the roster who doesn't just think/talk about winning a championship in the run-of-the-mill way that everyone else does, but who does so in the sort of way that John Elway might have before his grand finish--there's both desperation and expectation, having accomplished almost everything else he could hope to accomplish, and has watched too many others celebrate while he sat at home. There's something to be said for having someone on the roster with that perspective, that drive, that level of desire... and the capacity to play a critical role in achieving that. We've almost never had that kind of player on our team.

Chuck gives his perspective on that discussion... and again, sorry if already posted, and I missed it...

Says in May that he's already started on a mission to dominate from wire to wire... and more.

Have to disagree. 1. Where's your evidence that they weren't "losing hope?" I have to think the fact that ATL was giving him more money, albeit over 5 years, would, indeed, naturally lead to some discouragement. I think you might assume too much, my friend. 2. I read others saying that we didn't offer the 5th year. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I never saw Woj report that. 3. I've acknowledged that there's room for Woj and Koonin to be giving two perspectives of the same event--ie, that Woj did not necessarily mean to convey that we were initiating those calls. 4. I don't tend to call anyone "naive" as a matter of insult, but will only say that... for myself... I personally find it a whole lot more likely that Woj would approach the topic objectively than Koonin since the latter does have some obvious motive to skew the picture to advance a desired narrative. 5. I repeat, there is room for both to be correct, though maybe not both to be precise. 6. "Wrong?" If I'm a reporter, I'd see that. But from my perspective, you, me and everyone else gets some latitude as common Joe and Jane fans to say what we say about something like this--no one is being accused of a vice unit crime. The way I've taken it, something happened that opened the door to something more than merely fielding calls with proposed trades... clearly (maybe only to me), on our end, we left other teams with the impression we were prepared to make a deal once Horf said "yes" to the contract on the table, and that there had been a back-and-forth, not a one-sided discussion, with at least one team and probably several. So, yes, I could be wrong... but in an accuracy kind of way, not in any moralistic way.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I'll stick with Woj. He's been incredibly consistently correct, and at times when others' reporting was off the mark. Love Koonin, but there's natural reason for Koonin to color it as you've described, and I find the assertion that other teams or agents would be trying to mislead to be difficult to understand--not sure why they'd care since there's nothing really to be gained for any of them in the process (... or am I missing something?). Having said that, to my mind, they probably did want to keep all 3 if they could. Then, something happened. One possibility is that the cost to retain Horf got higher than they'd hoped, and there was a recognition that this time next year they'd be in too uncomfortable a position budget-wise. Another possibility is that Horf wasn't okay with how the playing time might shake out with three former all-stars occupying two positions. But then, a possibility too is that Woj wasn't precise with his words... "shopping Horford" may be another way of saying "listening to offers." So, yeah, in that case, both Woj and Koonin would be in the same ballpark, describing the same event with different terms.

"Established" seems a strong term. I wouldn't rule it out necessarily, but I'm not at first sure why it would be so certain in your mind. So, just curious.... what do you think prompted the reported trading frenzy surrounding Sap for the hours leading up to Horf's decision then?

When our esteemed Hawksquawk CEO can manage it, I'd be one to vote for one of these new Dwight poses in the banner. Frankly, the one that's there has never really looked like the guy to me... plus that goiter hanging from his neck kinda creeps me out... ;)

I don't think so. I understand he died a few years back.

Truth be told statistically, the main difference between a 60 win season (2014-15) versus a 48 win season (2015-16) was Kyle Korver. Proved that we can win with players at Horf and Teague's level if we get good-to-very good arc shooting; and if we could have gotten relatively healthy for the playoffs, I'm one of those who is convinced we would have continued to make noise season before last. So am I saying we simply needed to replace Korver? While the answer to that question to my mind is "yes, for the most part," there is an inherent misnomer in that question that makes it almost absurd... ie, the word "simply." If only it were that simple to do. It's just very difficult to find and obtain elite shooters capable of performing as well and as consistently as Korver did in 14-15. That's why Durant was/is such a coveted property, and why so many here swore that if we could somehow get KD to ATL, we should start printing NBA Finals tickets the same day. So the writing was on the wall at that point it became apparent that KD had no interest and that we had no other established similarly-elite arc shooter on our free agency or trading block radar... we had to cash-in our Teague chip, hope Dennis would continue to progress, and see what kind of player Prince might become. (Yeah, imo based on all that's been said since, Budcox was set on Prince from the moment they made that trade.) Losing Horf was not part of the plan, obviously. The plan was to keep him, sign Dwight, and gain some additional assets--likely at least one who would threaten to be an elite shooter--from trading Sap. But.... as they say... poop happens, best laid plans of mice and men, roll with the punches and all that. Have we gotten better? Honestly, not on paper, imo. But I agree with a premise of the OP that the ceiling had been met with this group of starters, with the caveat that restoring what we got from Korver 14-15, either from Korver or someone else, wasn't realistic. It was/is time to do some re-tooling, and see what happens. Could be an epic disaster. Could be an epic success. Will be an epic adventure.

We have 16, including Moose and Scott, one of which seemingly will be gone by the time we break camp and maybe before. Matt Costello's already signed. And, a recent report indicated Marcus Eriksson, the wing we took in the 2015 draft, is expecting to show. That leaves 2 slots. Gotta think that a point guard will be among those we invite. Of our Summer League guys, Pangos evidently signed a contract to play in Lithuania today, so I'm not sure that that's an option. Of course, if Eriksson is coming over for training camp, I dunno, maybe he is. But Bryce Cotton definitely turned some heads with his overall showing, so unless someone else scoops him up, I'm guessing many of us would vote him in. Conventionally speaking, if we're filling out with 1 of each position, that leaves us with another wing to add. Two that might be naturals to pursue b/c of their previous history with us are Terran Petteway who played SL for MIL, and Jarrell Eddie who we saw play against us twice for WAS. Then, there's the perpetual Euro stash Sergii Gladyr who evidently is still out there, but not seemingly any closer to getting any real consideration. Is Brandon Ashley, a veteran now of two ATL summer league teams, considered a wing at this point? Maybe. I could better see him added, though, if Mike Scott's legal adventure comes to a head, and we have that slot open. That said, the wing that nearly all of us probably want to see is the young Frenchman, Isaia Cordinier.

Dang, @Dnice.... ya forgot me already dude? ;)

As I understand it, all of that took place in just the last 24 hours. I'd like to think they'll do that (hold presser), and given that Prince in particular never has yet had the chance to be introduced, I'm inclined to think it will.

I'm confused... which one?

Horf is one of a pool of players who were significant but not every-night-elite. I appreciate what he brought to the team, and will miss having him. WAAAYYY too early to figure out where history will rank him within that pool, imo.

One more game. ATL/MEM at 8 eastern on ESPN2. Dangit... if Patterson not waived and Pangos not negotiating a Euro new contract, have to think we wouldn't have had that 4th Q offensive lull yesterday, and would have had a real shot at finishing strong. We just didn't have the bench to pull us through, imo. Boys, make it rain tonight in the desert. Make us that much more eager to see what you can do in preseason.