tmac13

Why would Denver trade a 21 million expiring contract for a 14 million expiring contract along with gimpy Speedy who they would have to pay another year? On top of that A.I. is a much better player than Bibby.

His sources seemed to confirm a 6 year 60 million offer to Smoove and he thinks its fair for both sides. He also has talked with former players that spent time in Europe and said a 3 year 20 million deal there was like 3 years and 35 million here. The team pays your taxes, housing. food, vehicles and all other living expenses. All the money goes to the player. He seems to think Chillz is probably gone. His show topic is "how much would it take to get you to pack up and move like Chillz is about to do"..Interesting

I don't underestimate what Chillz brings to the table. I think he has value. I simply think he is a 4 or 5 million dollar guy instead of a 7 million dollar guy. I think he is an excellent garbage player. He is usually in the right place at the right time and he plays hard. I also know the Hawks desperately need a real shooter off the bench and they need a big. To me those needs are more pressing than Chillz. If the Hawks overpay Chillz it not only hurts this summer in restricting us from improving but it hurts in the future trying to resign and extend guys.

The big difference on the Chillz side of it is taxes. Unless I am wrong the Greek money is almost tax free. The bottom line to the deal the Hawks presented and the greek deal is either way he would be putting 20 million in his pocket except in the greek deal he will get it in 3 years instead of 5. On a 34 million dollar contract he would be taxed about 40 percent here in the states.

Who else outside of Greece values Chillz at 7 million per year? I have not heard of any offer. Guys like Posey, who in my opinion are every bit as good if not better than Chillz have not gotten 7 million dollar offers. I would rather overpay on Smoove and replace Chillz if we have to. Sasha V of the Lakers and JR Smith would both be much cheaper options and bring more offense to the table. I would love to have a backup shooting guard who could shoot. I would love to have Chillz back but only at the right price.

I can understand all the frustration over Smoove staying or going but I simply don't feel that way about Chillz. Chillz is a slightly above average player on a slightly below average team. He plays the 2/3 which is easily the most plentiful position to replace. He is a little injury prone, he a very average defender, and he wants more money than he is worth to the Hawks.. He does not have so much talent that the Hawks could expect significant improvement over the course of a long contract. He is what he is, a nice backup 2/3.. If he can get large money overseas then good for him, but that doesn't reflect poorly on the Hawks for choosing not to overpay him with at least 3 better, more important players in Marvin, Horf, and JJ coming up for extentions in the next couple of years. If they are overpay it should be to Smoove.

We might even be able to swing a deal with the Lakers for Sasha. They just lost Turiaf, maybe a snt for Zaza for 4 million a year. Zaza would be a short term big for them and we could sign Sasha to a 3 or 4 year deal. Them we resign Smoove and use the mid level on a couple of bigs while staying under the luxury tax. Personally I would rather have Sasha than Chillz or JR Smith.

If they were 11 million under the cap by renouncing Chillz and then signed Smoove to a deal starting at 9 wouldn't that give them 2 million to use under the cap plus their full mle?

Would the Hawks have the choice of renouncing him to free up the cap space?

I wouldn't place too much value on any stats from the Summer League. The only thing that really interests me is Speedy's ability to actually get minutes and stay on the court. If he could give us quality backup minutes this year it could open up alot of trade avenues for the Hawks.

That does make alot of sense. I am afraid the ASG is just not capable of signing him to a market value contract. The bright side is Chicago, Charlotte and Golden State are all moving just as slow with their guys so that may just be the trend this summer.

Quote: Throw in a #1 and I would do that for Amir and Prince. Then I would ship Marvin off for Bierdens (via sign and trade). Bibby Johnson Prince Horford Bierdens Law/Claxton Richardson/Jackson Childress Solo/Johnson Golden State just signed Maggette and already has Wright and Harrington who all play basically the same position as Marvin. I doubt the have any interest in him. Zaza That would be a REAL nice team.

Amir is listed as 6'9" and 210. He is very athletic but very raw. I have absolutely no interest in this trade if there is any truth to it.

What I hate worse is Smoove starting at the 3.

I don't think there are any Smoove haters here. However if the choice is giving him a huge deal that hamstrings the team for years, letting him walk and receiving nothing in return. or getting the most we can get out of him in a sign and trade I think if you are a Hawks fan the 3rd option has to be considered.

Its time to make some moves.. Throw 6 years and 60 million at Smoove with a player option after 4 years. Throw 6 years and 36 to Chillz with a player option after 4 years. Sign Kwame to a 3 year deal using part of the mid level exception. Sign Randolph to a 3 year deal at slightly above the minimum. Let Luke Jackson battle it out with Richarson for our wing shooter off the bench. Tell Solomon goodbye..You should have played in the summer league. Tell Salim goodbye. You are more trouble than you are worth. Dangle Zaza for a 2nd. Let Justin Williams and Simien battle it out for the last spot on the bench.

Hardly a day passes here that there is not some trade Marvin for a center thread. There is one right now on the trade board with us trading Marvin for Camby and moving Horf to the 4 and Smoove to the 3. My point was I think Horf is a very good young five and Smoove is best suited for the 4.

The common denominator in all those series was the Hawks lost. We never even made it to a conference finals. Nique holds a great deal of respect in Atlanta, but he was never overly respected on a national level.. Thats the reason he was left off the 50 greatest list. I can still remember a Charles Barkley quote back when he was with the Sixers before a Philly/Atlanta game saying that any team with Nique would never win anything. That is how he was perceived nationally as opposed to his star status here.

I don't know. If anyone felt he was going to be steller he might be looking at his 3rd team in less than a year.

Nique's legacy in Atlanta has grown because of how he was traded. If he had stayed in Atlanta to finish out his career and went on the same slide he did as he played elsewhere he would not be the legend he is today. . Chances are the Hawks wouldn't have advanced any further in the playoffs that season than they ever did. We have never made it past the 2nd round with him or without him. The Indy playoff series was lost because Willis got injured and Indy was an up and coming team that was much better than their record indicated. I traveled alot for work in those years and Nique was not thought of around the country as a superstar level player. He was 2nd tier behind guys like Bird, Magic, Jordan, Barkley and so on. He was known as a scorer only. He was viewed sort of like Carmelo Anthony is viewed now. .

I see post after post of here about the Hawks either signing or trading for a center. Does this mean we think Horf is better suited for the 4 spot? I thought he actually performed very well for a rookie center. I don't think he will ever be a huge scorer but I wouldn't be at all surprised if he posted 13 points and 11 rebounds as soon as this season.. I also think he loses some of his advantage if he is trying to defend quicker power forwards. What he lacks in height he seems to make up in toughness. I do agree we need a defensive minded backup for those nights he gets into foul trouble, but as far as starting I think he is at home in the 5 spot. The domino effect of moving Horf to the 4 is moving Smoove to the 3. I think that would be a disaster. Smoove is a less than steller shooter and ball handler, both are needed to play the 3. I think it would also encourage him to hoist up more long jumpers.

The Nique for Manning trade always gets overblown in my opinion. The Hawks had a better winning percentage after the trade.(look it up if you don't believe me)..As far as getting booted in the 2nd round,,well thats the same exact thing that happened to the Hawks with Nique. Thats as far as they ever got with him.. The killer part of the deal was Manning refusing to resign with the Hawks..

They wouldn't unless they wanted Salim and wanted to rid themselves of someone the Hawks coveted.

Its no secret that Woody and Smoove have clashed more than a few times in the past 4 years. Maybe Smoove didn't express his true feelings to Sund but still harbors some resentment.

I don't know that I would trade both Josh and Marvin plus a 1st rounder for Oden but I would certainly trade either of them straight up for him. 6'9" tweener forwards are much more plentiful than a true 7' center that has all the tools to be a dominant force for years to come. Oden has the potential to be great.