Packfill

I agree with Diesel and Chillz. Kobe has some Jordanesque moments but he has a long way to go before he surpasses Jordan in greatness, let alone be his equal.

I agree in that that sounds like an awful bad trade from Chicago's perspective. Wagner may develop, but he seems like a Terryesque tweener.

If the plan is to keep Terry and resign Jackson then I would be willing to give up both the 6 and 17 pick for a chance at Howard. Basically the 17 pick is going to be a project - either a project center (Swift, Ramos, Petro, etc.) or project wing (J.R. Smith, Wright - Snyder and Jackson will likely be gone). One of those projects would be nice but I Howard makes the most sense for this team from a talent, positional and marketing perspective. The Hawks could then hopefully sign a center like Foyle or Blount (this is being discussed in another thread but I would go for Blount given his improvement over the second half of the season, but Foyle would be a good body guard for Howard). Then resign Sura and either Collier or Pryz and draft a back-up point guard in round two. That is essentially the same team we finished the season with plus a big athletic frontcourt - exactly what the team needed at the end of the season. Jackson, Terry and Sura can handle the bulk of the scoring next season. Blount would be good for at least 10 pts a game, likely more if utilized and if Howard could contribute anything in year one it is gravy. Year two, you hope Howard shows signs of at least becoming Jermaine O'Neil, and maybe KG/Duncan. He becomes the focus, Diaw or '05 draft pick moves in to two guard/point guard/second ballhandler role or Terry, in the last year of his deal, gets traded. That teams success hinges on the development of the frontcourt - Howard and Blount (or Foyle, Pryz, second round flyer, whomever). But, you have scoring and, with the height and athleticism of the front court coupled with a Diaw and/or Hanson, you have some defense.

If Harris is going to be good as KJ - who was an excellent player - then I would not complain if Knight picked him at 6. I like the FA signings of Martin and Blount and the resigning of Jackson and Sura. The one change I would make would be to try and unload Terry for a real shooting guard. That said, I still have some hope that Diaw and/or Hanson can develop.

I for one would not complain if that happens.

Thanks for the report Jay. That was an interesting workout summary. Jackson and Snyder both seem like excellent prospects, though for different reasons. As long as Terry is the Hawks point guard though, Jackson is the better fit. Snyder would really be an uber prospect if he were a few inches taller and could play small forward, where is inconsistent jumper and handles would not be as much of a factor.

I think we all agree that Kmart is not really worth the max and is not a true elite superstar player. That said, he is a really good all-star caliber player who does bring alot of energy and intensity to a team - something desperately needed in Atlanta. He definitely would fit in with the Hawks team that was on the floor at the end of the year. He definitely wouldn't be my first choice but he is a nice piece to the puzzle. He would look even better if a Ray Allen type could be added during the 2005 off-season.

I agree. It would make alot more sense for them to Draft Okafur, play him for a year and then trade him if they have a shot at signing Shaq. If Okafur is decent as a rookie they could do a heck of alot better than Henderson. Heck, they could do a sign and trade with LA. The Atl/Orl trade makes no sense.

I am interested to see how Jackson matches up athletically with guys like Smith and Snyder. I also want to see if Smith rebounds from his previous poor workout. No pressure Jay . . .

I think if the Hawks draft Howard then signing Kmart does not make sense. Basically, by signing Martin you are saying Howard will not play as a rookie - because while he may grow into the center role, he will not be effective in that role as an 18 year old rookie. As others have suggested, I would rather get a real center - Okur, Blount or Foyle would all be good "protection" in the paint for Howard.

I think alot will be cleared up on Wednesday when we learn what pick the Hawks get. If it is pick 1 or 2, then power forward is set and dollars can be expended elsewhere. In this scenario (i.e., Howard or Okafur through the draft) I would definitely resign Jackson and Sura and then make a play for a center like Foyle, Blount or Okur. With the seventeenth pick, I would look at a either a developmental center or best player available. If the Hawks do not get the one of the top two picks in the draft, things change quite a bit. With the 6th or later pick the Hawks are likely looking at either a small forward or point guard (the exception being Biedrins - I don't know much about him, but if he is the pick, then the plan looks more like scenario #1). I am thinking Josh Smith, Deng, Livingston, Harris and Gordon. I would prefer Smith. If it is Smith, then the question is, do you sign Jackson? Probably no because you can rotate Diaw and Smith at the 3 (Smith may not be ready to start) with Sura, Diaw, Hanson and maybe a draft pick at the two. While smith has potential I am not expecting 18+ points a game, so we need some scoring. This is where K-Mart really comes into play. Might as well through some money at him and a center. If K-Mart is not an option, the power forward spot is a major weakness and probably will need to look at short term filler while a draft pick (17? - Jefferson, Splitter, Humphries, etc.) develops. Also, if no big name is signed this year (ala K-Mart), then lots of money should be available the following year.

The problem I see with these picks are that Biedrins, Splitter and Varejao are essentially the same player. They are all power forwards. I would prefer more variety.

I wouldn't be upset if he were named the new coach. I probably prefer Fratello, by Muss is probably my second choice. Strange that my favorites are two former Hawks coaches . . . not sure if that is a good thing, as in maybe time for some completely new blood in this franchise.

No. Obviously he is more talented than Terry, but he basically has many of the same flaws to his game. He is not a true point guard, just like Terry, and that will hold a team back to a certain extent.

You have to be kidding me. Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Tracey McGrady, Lebron James, etc. are marketable not because they left school early or never went to college at all, but because they are GREAT PLAYERS. PERIOD. Lebron got a big contract from Nike because of media exposure and talent. Carmelo Anthony may have been as good a player today if he never went to Syracuse, but he sure would not have been as marketable. The exposure he got taking cuse to the championship is invaluable from a marketing perspective. You telling me he did not benefit from some time in College? Plus, having gone to college myself, college is a crap load of fun. One of the highlights of a persons life. I hope Telfair succeeds because he has all the makings of a big bust and his sponsors will be kicking themselves in the pants because he will not sell product sitting on the bench. At the end of the day you may criticise Duncan and players of his ilk for going to school and not being marketable, but Duncan has two rings - that is two more rings that McGrady, Garnett, LeBron, Amare and every high school to pro athlete not named Kobe (and Kobe won those rings because of some kid who spent a few years in college). I rather have a winning team than a marketable one - forget the fair weather fans and people whose idea of a players worth is the size of his shoe contract or latest pepsi commercial.

I agree, if you get Smith early then the next pick should be a big man because the biggest hole on this team would be power forward. The bigger question with getting Smith is do you resign Jackson? They play the same position so you could argue that having Jackson around would hinder Smith's development. You cannot play the two together if Terry is the point guard because there is no second ball handler - Diaw or Sura would need to be on the floor. The other scenario is where the Hawks win the lottery and acquire Okafor or Howard. In either case, resigning Jackson works because we need scoring from the 3. Now if Jacksons asking price gets too high then things become more interesting. One scenario I was thinking was if Howard is the top choice, then it may make sense to trade the 17th pick for a young veteran - theory being you don't want to rely on two rookies. So, you can trade the 17th pick for a guy like Jonathan Bender (I know, it is a risk) who has talent and could develop with some playing time. A Bender like player would be better positioned to contribute early. The trade would fill the void at small forward or two guard (Diaw, Sura and new guy each get 30 minutes). Use the Jackson free agent money on a Mark Blount like free agent big man to serve as a body guard for Howard while he develops. A team of Terry, Diaw, Bender, Howard and Blount most likely does not score enough in year win to win much but some nice young pieces are in place for the following season with a more attractive free agent class. Hawks still have plenty of money and with a developing Howard, Bender, etc. would be an attractive up and coming team for a Ray Allen like free agent. So in two years (I feel like diesel): Terry Allen Bender Howard Blount with Diaw, Sura and whomever else off the bench. Food for thought.

The question is not which players hurt themselves staying in school (that is a short list, and the only real downside is draft position or injury, not so much development), it is which players hurt themselves by NOT staying in school. Guys like Omar Cook, Lenny Cooke, William Avery, DerMarr Johnson, Darius Miles, Jamal Crawford, Eddie Curry, Kwame Brown, Rodney White, Mike Dunleavy, DeJuan Wagner, Samuel Dalembert, etc. Some of these guys will be great successes - some are already turning the corner - but it is hard to argue that they would not have benefitted from another year or two in college with some playing time. The pros do not necessarily do a better job developing players than college - Miles is exhibit A. Has he really improved in his 3 years in the league? Not much. Corey Magette is another example, he has improved, but it took a long time for him to get there. Argueably, he could have developed faster by taking a leading role on that Duke team after Brand, Langdon and Avery left. And saying Grant Hill stymied his development by staying 4 years in college is crazy. Prior to injury he was one of the ten best players in the league - what more do you want? Now some players don't need 4 years or 3 years or even two years of college - guys like Lebron and Carmelo for example. But what about a guy like Dejuan Wagner? How has leaving early benefitted his career other than fattening his wallet? He has not developed and his body was not ready for the grind of an NBA season. Both Howard and Smith are great talents but it is asking an awful lot for them to come in and be stars right away. Jermaine O'Neal took a fews years to develop but he is an excellent player now. Stoudamire has come on faster, but will he ever be as good as Jermaine? Maybe?

I didn't sleep at a holiday inn last night, but I get the sense you like Pickett.

Second round picks are almost worthless so I can't imagine that two 2nd rounders is enough to move up from 5/6 to 3. I also have my reservations about Humphries. Great college player sure, but he is undersized to play the 4 in the NBA and is not a great athlete. I would rather sign Swift as a free agent.

Swift makes alot of sense if the Hawks are unable to land a big man in the draft (i.e., Howard or Okafor).

Graymule - you get my vote as the most positive voice in this forum. Since there are so many who focus on the negatives, I just wanted to say thanks.

Can someone explain to me the love affair with Romain Sato? He is athletic and hard nosed sure, but he is not a great shooter or ball handler so he does not seem to fill a need. I rather have a guy like Duhon or project big man in the second round.

I would most likely take Smith or Livingston before Biedrins, Podkolzine or one of the other European big men if they were still available. But if the Hawks are stuck at the 5 pick, then one will have to do. As for the trade of Terry/Mil 1st to the Bobcats for the 4th pick, I don't think there is any chance the Bobcats would make that trade. As an expansion team, in a hoops hysterical area, they can afford to wait on a high schooler to develop. I also would not trade Diaw for Gooden. Gooden is o.k. but the Hawks would need a real defensive presence at center to make it work. He is really a poor man's Shareef - good offense, but limited defense and not much size.

Quote: I can't believe I'm saying this, but if there was a possibility of getting Livingston AND Smith, I'd trade JT. Everyone else can fight over Okafor and Howard, I want these two young cats. What would be ideal would be if somehow one of the two's stock falls so that we could pick him up with our mid-first. That or, instead of trading JT (seeing as though he clicks with Sura and Jackson) send away our mid-first, a second, and some money considerations. JT / Livingston Sura / Diaw / Hansen Jackson / Smith CC / Hendu Collier / Pryz / Reb Livingston and Smith are great talents but that team would have a crater size hole on in the front court. I think the Hawks need to come out of the draft with a big man, specifically a power forward. If Howard and Okafur are not available than one of the Euros will be good value. The Hawks will get killed on the boards if they go into next year with Crawford and Collier starting inside. It would be one thing if we have a young stud backing up, but a far different situtation if Hendu is all we have to fall back on. So to sum up, Hawks need a power forward.