JustSomeGuy

Put me down with this team as a 50 win squad sans injuries. I think our regular season ceiling is the 3 seed.

We saw a “better” JC when we were a worse, talentless team and he was getting 20-10 with teams sleepwalking into our arena every night. And you’re just making my point again with Ingles. Quin prefers to play 4 out with playmakers on the perimeter. Could he have found a role for JC? Probably. But you don’t pay guys you have to scheme into impact 25 million a year. Ans again, it doesn’t matter what you “think” Quin could’ve done to unlock It’s a pointless and purely speculative argument because the reality is Quin was a part of the braintrust that decided to trade him away. Meaning QUIN DIDN’T WANT HIM. Y’all make it sound like the team purposefully sabotaged his career and traded him for nothing to embarrass him, ignoring the fact that if he was as talented as some on this board think he is, teams would have still given up something of value for him knowing the scheme alone was the problem. That isn’t what happened.

Your first point leads with a hypothetical/speculative conversation which can’t be proven but still makes my main point. His production was replaceable with cheaper players with higher upside. Not ironically his upward trajectory as a winning coach coincided with the emergence of Joe Ingles, Jae Crowder, and co in Utah’s lineups. Derrick Favors took a step back in minutes on court and as an offensive focus. His scoring production dropped every winning season Quin was in Utah which coincided with the ascendance of the team in the West. He was also ten times the interior defender John Collins is.

I don’t really know what his best system is, Especially not in this modern NBA. He’s not a strong enough post player to be a featured big in a half court offense and not a good enough perimeter player to play in a 4 out offense. He can’t even play as a small ball 5. Especially not in a league with Embiid, Jokic, Gobert, Wemby, etc. I would guess his best game would be as a mid range pick and pop 4, a la, Karl Malone in the 90s but that isn’t the way the game is played anymore. I think his best role is a hustle big, like a Kenneth Faried or Taj Gibson. Winning players but hardly all stars and not paid like them. Maybe JJJ in Memphis but he isn’t as good a rim defender despite his athleticism. And I disagree that Quin’s system would be good for him for two reasons 1. Because Quin didn’t see him as a system fit. He coached him for half the season and if his input loomed as large as everyone speculated it did in personnel decisions, John would still be here if he wanted him here. His perimeter limitations hurt him. And if a salary dump was the goal there were easier ways to do that with players who were more coveted on the market that would have returned more value. 2. Because he does none of the things well that Quin’s traditional 4s have done. Even look at the preseason and as much on ball action as he have seen from JJ and Bey. John can’t do any of that consistently or effectively. So this isn’t me hating on John, just acknowledging his limitations and poor fit.

So you’re saying Trae forced John out? And the team gave him away for nothing to Utah when there were better deals on the table… because why? I don’t dislike John. I think he is a winning rotational player. What I didn’t like was his contract and production value, which made him expendable. There are a lot of apologists for his game who make all of his failures, other players/circumstances fault. John is, at best, a third/fourth option whose star profile rose because he was playing on a talentless roster and got a chance to put up more numbers than he otherwise would’ve. Just because he can jump high at the rim doesn’t mean he was good. Especially when he’s a poor post defender, poor perimeter defender, poor playmaker, poor shot creator, and last season a poor spot up shooter, who deals with long bouts of ineffectiveness. The man literally had a two rebound playoff game against a team that played a 4 guard offense.

And coupled with the off-season talk about him, in particular, buying into his role I think there’s some smoke but we will see how it plays out.

IIRC didn’t he wipe his IG this off-season when the trade rumors began?

Agree that Hunter situation looks odd. No real proof but the Energy there doesn’t feel right. I don’t think he lasts the season here.

The energy with this team is palpable. Last year the team looked like they had a 2 ton gorilla on their backs all the time. Everyone looks like they’re playing free and having fun, especially Trae.

@sturtthe fact that they got nothing in return for him was certainly not Atlanta’s choice but a reflection of his perceived value across the league. That’s not Atlanta’s fault. If Atlanta thought little of him, how much less do other teams think of him to not be willing to part with ANY assets of value to acquire him? I can acknowledge that John was phased out of the offense and probably didn’t fit into the teams long term plans and even that he sacrificed for the team. I can also acknowledge that his game has significant warts. If he saw himself as a frontline player, those flaws manifested in far too much inconsistency and long stretches of non production on the court. That’s not Atlanta’s fault, that’s on him. Hell he lost touches to more productive players, anyone else willing to take the ball out of Trae’s hands to appease John? What about Murray? To do that is just asinine. But Clearly that’s Utah’s problem now given the quote above. The offense will not revolve around John, nor should it. And the irony in his comments about ego is he is the only player who has openly complained about touches on this team. Addition by subtraction is real.

Agreed on this. The problem is that playing in this type of system also doesn’t play to his strengths as a player, either. Which is probably part of why Atlanta traded him away.

Atlanta didn’t “kick him to the curb”. They gave him an opportunity to change his family’s life, paid him 100 million dollars, and he didn’t produce. His game did not continue to grow and evolve and it made him and his contract expendable. This isn’t personal. It’s business. Yeah hiring McMillan and his nonexistent offense probably did him no favors but John is who he is as a player and squeezing sour grapes at this point.

He’s earning that from me with his comments since the trade. We think of him as a leader but it hasn’t been lost on me that the idea of addition by subtraction can include removing a sour attitude from a locker room as well.

Trae will still average 9 or so assist. He will still be allowed the freedom to pick his spots, we will still run the PnR and he had 5 in less than a half the other night.

Agreed. Sexton is definitely more of a 6th man than lead guard but this goes what I’ve been saying that this Utah team does not play to his strengths. Can’t play as rim runner, no passer to create easy baskets, still will have challenges creating his own shot.

I know it was garbage time minutes but Lundy has an NBA ready skill with that jumper. If he can be a halfway decent perimeter defender we have something to work with.

If playing with CC was what held him back in Atlanta how will playing alongside Kessler be any different?

Bogi isn’t that much worse of a defender than Dre as you make it sound. He isn’t a great athlete but is a good team defender, and more disruptive. He is also a better shooter, shot creator, and is more consistent so the fit wouldn’t be that bad.

I disagree because Quin saw him play and clearly decided there wasn’t a role for him here.

Everyone has an opinion I guess but his suggestion that we stunted his growth feels like sour grapes. His game grew tremendously while here but I’m not sure I see where his game really was going to take another step. He’s a tweener who was a non existent shot creator, even in the post. His rim runner role was replaced by necessity because of his deficiency as a post defender. His passing improved but he declined as a rebounder and had a knack for disappearing for long stretches on the court. Not to mention the injuries. Best of luck to him though.

The only deal that makes sense is one where he brings us back something of value that makes us better. If trading him doesn’t return anything of value that will help us win, I’d rather reduce his minutes and move him to a bench role and use his value he would bring us as an expiring in a couple years.

I don’t think Capela is as done as people here make him sound. I think he is definitely nearing the decline but that doesn’t mean we HAVE to trade him. Especially with no equal talent available to come back to us. We can always just let him expire or hold him until closer to the deadline. I personally really like our lineup with Bey at the 4 and CC at the 5. Gives Clint the room to be a lob threat and rebounder. Covers for the deficiency of Bey/Hunter as rebounding wings and opens up the floor for DJ and Trae.

Jalen looks good but who is that kid in the Kobe’s? He might need a camp invite or something

Also count me in the pro-JJ crowd. He has the type of game that plays well even without plays called for him. I also like Bey in his role and don’t mind playing him at the 4 for short stretches would be more ideal next to Capela than OO because Dre is such a poor rebounder.