thesheedera

That's the problem with being a one paper town.

Quote: I want to start out by saying I have been a Hawks fan for over 25 years. I have been reading this site for a while but not posting. I just wanted to add one man's opinion on Marvin as a bust or not. First off, when this particular draft happened, I didn't want Marvin but I didn't want Paul either. I thought he was too small to defend his position in the pros and saw too many of his games in college where I thought he was outplayed by Jack, etc.. I actually wanted Deron Williams. I do remember the majority of the media saying Marvin should either be the first or second pick. On to the Marvin debate, I know there are alot of people who would like to trade him to just about anyone willing to take him but I want to bring up a couple of points I feel are important. He is 21 years old and despite what has been said, he has got better every year. This year alone compared to last year. His points went up, his field goal percentage went up, his free throw percentage went up, his steals went up, his turnovers went down, and his rebounds went up. He pretty much improved in every area. Is he Paul, no, that kid is special, but Marvin is no slouch and he will get better. I do believe he will be an all star some day but not a perennial one. He will put up good numbers be borderline and then make it a couple of times. You redo that draft he is is still a top 5 pick so he is definitely not a bust. I am interested in what people really think of him not what they think compared to Paul. I intend on contributing more often and respect all your opinions. Bust - no Disappointment - so far, yes Compared to Paul and Deron - just plain silly how far off most were on both of those guys, kudos to anyone who truly saw this coming. Paul, Deron and Felton were neck and neck and neck, and Felton has performed about to the level I think most would have reasonably expected of all three by now. Deron has been sensational and Paul has been otherworldly. Compared to Bogut - seems about right that Bogut was taken over him by a slight margin, separated almost entirely by position. I'm not sure if I would trade Marvin to get Bogut today. Compared to other #2 picks - he's worse than most #2s, but he's better than several, and about the same as several as well. We f-ed up the pick BIG time in hindsight because the Paul and Deron picks are so obvious now. Had Paul and Deron developed at the same rate as Felton, in a situation as difficult as Felton's (miserable franchise, forced to play out of position along with Brevin for too long) has been, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be wondering if we still need to go get a PG of the future. Marvin looked awesome at the beginning of the season, but after that he was extremely inconsistent and the season on the whole is a bit disturbing for me as a Marvin fan. He's gotta come back on a serious mission next season, otherwise I'll get in the camp that both the Hawks AND Marvin would be better off by moving him elsewhere.

Quote: Bibby is not even a good player anymore. Second option? Did you see him against Boston or pretty much any quality team after he was traded here? http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=61 Take a look at his game long. He was almost always crappy against quality teams. That's because he can't do anything anymore besides shoot 3 point shots and he is not even an accurate shooter now. I agree...yet I also think he's the best PG we've had in the ASG era. Sad, but true IMO. He's good enough to help this team win more than half our games, and he's a far better mentor for Law than Lue, AJ or Speedy. I think this team as it's built right now is good enough to get over .500 with Woody and a PG rotation of Bibby, Law and maybe Speedy. With a better coach than Woody it can definitely get to 45-48 wins, and be back in the "competitive/dangerous" team territory. 50's a stretch even with a new coach unless a major move is made. I think they should get a new GM and coach, bring back everyone on the team unless a great opportunity comes along, maybe add a small piece here and there, and let the new coach have a go at the wheel. That way he and the new GM can evaluate the talent, pick and choose who they like, plot a course, and start making major moves if necessary before the trade deadline when Bibby's contract will be worth the most. Coming back with Woody is a huge huge huge mistake.

Quote: Defensive efficiency. What exactly is that? All I know is that Phoenix gives up more points per game than the Hawks do and have routinely been among the bottom of the league in giving up points, and I know that Mike D'Antoni has never embraced playing defense as a priority. He doesn't teach defense. Watch and see. If he is hired in Chicago, they will be in the bottom third of the league in defense for D'Antoni's time there just like Phoenix has been since he has been there. PPG is not enough to measure defense. If you play a faster tempo there are more possessions and therefore more points scored by both teams. I don't know if the Suns played any D, but just looking at PPG is useless.

Quote: I don't know if the ASG would immediately give 'Nique the power to get rid of Woodson...but, judging by some of his post-game comments this year, I don't think 'Nique feels Woodson if a good coach. Hope you're right because Diesel's scenario is worst case. Woodson made a lot of big mistakes, but also made some very good moves and picks. I could see ASG doing the cheap thing by promoting Nique to GM and keeping Woody as the coach. Nique has no experience and we have no idea what kind of manager he'd be. It would also appear as a figurehead position in my mind. A GM with less power than Knight had.

Quote: Quote: i think for me it's the lack of "glimpses of the future." In Josh Smith we would at least see a glimpse of future stardom and it's just been a matter of getting consistency as he progresses.. with marvin, i haven't seen that...sure he's had like one game where he scored 30 (against his hometown crowd) but other than that, he has been very ho hum.. plus i see more fire in josh to learn to get better than marvin... i havent given up totally on marvin, but he seemed to stop progressing midseason..he needs to step up. Marvin has actually regressed since Midseason. Which for the most part means that overall, he has not improved since coming out of college. He has become more comfortable in the pro game but improved? NO. I can't point to one thing that Marvin has become better at since his college days... CAN anyone?? It's difficult to compare him now to his college days because he was used exclusively as a post player in college and he's used almost exclusively as a perimeter player in the NBA. He was one of 3 post players on the team and the only time any of them took long jumpshots or drove with the ball was when they trailed on the secondary break and got the ball at the top of the key. And when they got the ball there, my memory is that they'd pass immediately at least 80% of the time. Jawad took a decent number of jumpers at that point in the offense, Marvin less than Jawad but he took some, May took very few. None of them really drove the ball from that spot at all, they'd eitehr shoot, or pass it and go inside to set screen after screen with the other post player and the wings cutting on the baseline. Marvin's certainly better off the dribble now than then. He never drove from the perimeter to the lane as a college player, that just wasn't a part of his game. You could see that he had potential as a ball handler because he would handle the ball in traffic in transition. Other than that, he rarely handled the ball. He's better shooting jumpshots as he rarely did that in college, mentioned above. A couple times a game he might take a long jumper, but it wasn't close to being his primary role, as it now so clearly is. Taking an opporunistic jumper from time to time is one thing. No one defended him on the perimeter so he was always wide open. Now he's known as a mid-long range jumpshooter and that's where he plays a huge majority of the game (whether that's a Woody decision or a Marvin decision is unknown). He still needs to stop drifting on the shot, needs to jump less on mid range shots, and needs to extend his range, but he's come a good way so far in developing this part of his game from scratch. And while he isn't in the post very often anymore, he now has a couple of post, and mid range back to the basket moves. He just doesn't use them enough, and frankly doesn't get the ball enough in position to use them. Again - maybe Woody's call, maybe Marvin being "soft". We don't know. He has a baby hook that he finishes regularly. He dropped a spin move fade away on Pierce the other night that he's used less frequently (and has had less frequent success than the baby hook) than the baby hook. But when he executes it properly its beautiful. He has a jab step jumper that he's had some success with, but needs to continue to improve. What he's really bad at is going from close in to the rim. He needs space to get enough lift to finish at the rim. He can drive from outside and dunk on someone, but when he only has a step or two he gets his [censored] thrown back in his face. If he improved this part the other options would improve as a result. He really couldn't be much different of a player than he was then. In some ways good, in some ways bad. He needs to continue to add to his game but get back to the tenacity that he played with in college. That tenacity added greatly to his hype as a potentially great player.

Quote: Quote: Smoove is better than Marvin everyone knows that, Are you kidding me Smoove is the better player hands down. wtf

I don't see any reason why this makes sense for the Bucks. They could have resigned Zaza but they let him walk. Since then he looked solid at first, and then regressed badly. Why in the world would they want him back? They could have taken Marvin instead of Bogut. Bogut hasn't lit the world on fire by any means, but he's still a true center, Marvin isn't. They've both been disappointing to a degree, but a center always is more valuable and harder to replace. Bibby didn't exactly give teams much of a reason to makes moves for him with the way he played in this series. There's no upside for the Bucks.

Quote: That being the case, he's not playing like a #2 pick. You're right. Darko, Jay Williams and Stromile Swift have never played this good. The question is , which of our #2 picks has had a better series? I say Bibby by a nose.

Quote: I saw that. For all the idiots who said making the playoffs meant nothing this year - that we'd just be Boston's first round sweep - this is just one of the reasons why it was invaluable. We sold $100,000 worth of season tickets afer game 4. Next year, the house will be rocking. You think all those free agent's who've shunned ATL over the years, not for the city or the lifestyle but for the franchise, wish they hadn't. ATL will now be a free agent destination... flava Still one problem: Atlanta Spirit If they can wrap that mess up and just come to a definitive resolution, at that point the lid will be ripped off of this sucker.

Quote: These guys deserve some love. They carried this team last night. JJ didn't disappear, he was actually the catalyst.. but without these guys responding, all was lost! Amen. I only fit in one category (Zaza), and he's come back alive in this series. Joe, Smith and Horford are good enough to be this team's "big 3". Even if Marvin doesn't fully live up to #2 pick expectations and Childress doesn't fully live up to #6 expectations, they can be "role" players that help this team become a contender. A role player on a contender is a much different thing than a role player on a lottery team. My biggest concern now is whether or not Acie can grow into the all important role of floor general for this squad. I'm hopeful, but uncertain. Complete team effort last night, beautiful thing to watch.

40 feels better than 39, even if it took 6 extra games to get there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Natio..._season_win_pct Mavs are the only team to lose in 1st round after a season .800 or better. 67 wins. Warriors had a winning record in a strong Western Conference. Sonice are next best team to lose in the 1st round after 63 wins. This would be bigger than both for sure.

yes, and it won't be close how many teams have won 66 or more games in a season?

...or are there only 9 teams left in the playoffs, and one of them is the Atlanta Hawks???

Thanks!

Quote: Quote: Quote: but the future isn't Marvin it is Smoove Pretty ignorant of you to assume it has to be one or the other. I'll take them BOTH, thank you very much. Can't figure out this fan base. The Hawks seem to be putting it together but the fans continue to be dissatisfied and want change. I don't understand! We sure look more "complete" whe we play hard, play with poise, and play as a team.

I've been all about dropping Woody ASAP, and I've always said I respect him more as a man than as a coach. But we can't praise these players for 3 good games despite the previous 82 without praising Woody for the same 3 games. Well done, Wood...I still hope we can find someone better...but if you return I'll make myself buy in. You've earned at least that much.

Quote: but the future isn't Marvin it is Smoove Pretty ignorant of you to assume it has to be one or the other. I'll take them BOTH, thank you very much.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Without Marvin we don't win this game. Plain and simple.... Oh BS...BBIB...without Marvin we would have had another player (if the ASG could afford a starting SF or a center) that would have probably done as good as far as the 6 games go - Marvin sucked tree sap last game and did good tonight. As far as Marvin being the "key" to winning this game I call bullsh_t. He did good - far better than I expected - I was pleased. Now at least we can get SOMETHING for him in a trade. Guys who show up in a game AFTER the game they should have showed up in don't impress me. Truly, If you want a team to really compete next year you need PG-Bibby/Acie-SG-JJ/Chillz-SF-Smoove/Chillz-PF-Horfy/Smoove- Center-___________/Horfy and a good coach. You called BS on Marvin not being the key, but you failed to explain why. I logically broke it down for all to see, yet you offer no defense for it. Marvin was huge in THIS game, and he is a major reason why we won. Period. And how was last game more important than tonight's?

Ain't a Marvin hater but I hope you won't mind. Btw, his pic is on the front page of ESPN, for something GOOD, not BAD! He won't ever be Worthy with a jumpshot, or Chris Paul, but Marvin can still be a player that helps this team become a contender. Tons of holes to fill in and work to do, but his destiny hasn't been fully determined yet. This can be a step, a big step. No matter how much you hate him, you have to be happy for himand our franchise tonight. Regardlessof how the game turned out, this organization NEEDED Marvin to show SOMETHING in this series. Whether you want to trade him and need his value increased, or if you love him and want him to be a key cog in our future, either way you needed him to have a good game. Showing some toughness by coming back in (and tackling Perkins on one of those last key possessions to help us procure the rebound )only makes it sweeter. Pretty much every player on our team had "their moment" of this series. I thought Marvin had about 2.5 good games coming into tonight, but in this game he had a few of his own moments, and it kind of completes the series in my mind. each of these Hawks coming back next season, no matter how ugly it gets on Sunday...;) GREAT WIN

No limit as a PF. Pretty dang good as a center. His post offense is noticeably better now than at the beginning of the year. Still raw, but there's no reason why he can't become an excellent post scorer. He has the coordination, the touch, the willingness to get tough and I think he has the brains to work a guy over the course of a game with different set ups and post moves. Last part a complete guess, but he appears to be more cerebral than most guys to me. Joe Johnson is the best player on this team. Josh Smith is the most physically gifted by a long shot. Al Horford may have the best career of the three.

Quote: Quote: Quote: He's living up to his reputation as a player that chokes in big games And where's the evidence of that one? His three biggest games of his college career.. Link And just as I replied to that thread - The Heels never would have been in those games had he not carried them in the first three rounds of the tourney.

Quote: He's living up to his reputation as a player that chokes in big games And where's the evidence of that one?