thesheedera

Quote: I never really read anywhere but does anyone know why the ASG didnt want BK to fire Woodson? It seems they are so uninvolved with the team with everything but they step in and deny BK from doing this. Doesnt the GM usually decide most of the coaching issues? I know its already been discussed here but my internet was down for a few days during that time and wanted to catch up on it. I'm pretty sure he and BK have expiring contracts at the end of this season. My guess is that the ownership has been thinking that Woody's good enough to get us a playoff berth this season, whch they will trumpet as some kind of arrival, some kind of great achievement. BK and Woody are lame ducks in their mind, so while there's no great reason to keep Woody around, if they fire him while BK's still in charge, then BK (a lame duck GM) gets to decide who the next coach is, which they certainly don't want. If BK hires someone that they don't want long term, they'll have to buy them out when the new GM decides who he wants as HC. I think they were just gambling that we'd be "good enough" with Woody for the rest of the year, so they could make their moves this summer and not have to buy anyone out of any existing contracts. And honestly, I don't think that was such a terrible idea if it's the case. Sucks for us Hawks fans, but if it were my dough, I'd probably be thinking along the same lines. Now that the firing attempts are public and the team's in a tailspin, it makes them look worse, but the theory made sense when it was probably developed earlier this year.

Quote: Quote: Marvin isn't the problem... Joe is a way bigger joke than marvin. I don't know we were close... Then Marvin comes in at the 10 minute mark in the 4th and Charlotte goes on a bigtime run! 10:03 - We're down 83-72 Zaza gets the ball in the paint (takes a dribble in traffic - wtf?) pumps twice and gets fouled. We're down 83-74. 10:02 - Marvin comes in before Zaza's foul shot, Zaza makes it, we're down 83-75. Next possession: Felton brings it down, milks the clock, Marvin's on Carroll in the corner near the Bobcats bench, we're plying man to man. Okafor sets a high pick for Felton (on JJ) and Felton drives to the side of the court opposite of the Cats bench while Carroll swings around the perimeter to the wing near the Cats bench pulling Marvin with him. Felton pulls out and Okafor sets another screen near the elbow, Zaza bits on the roll, Bibby's closest to Felton and doesn't help, JJ can't get to him in time, Felton drains a 3 with the shot clock down to 5. Marvin's man never got the ball nor was he close enough to the ball to allow Marvin to help. 9:38 - 86-75 Next possession: Bibby to Marvin to JJ to Josh or an easy bucket that hits the net with 10 left on the clock. God stuff. 9:21 - 86-77 Next possession: Carroll's again in the corner near the Cats bench, Felton takes his time on the wing near the Cats bench, Okafor goes to set a screen on JJ, JS is at the elbow opposite the Cats bench with Dudley out on that wing behind the 3 point line. Josh leans towards the screening action focused on what Felton's gonna do, Felton drives toward Josh as Okafor rolls to the block, Felton passes to Dudley for an open 3. Josh doesn't even extend his arm. Marvin's man never got the ball nor was he close enough to the ball at any point to allow Marvin to help. 9:06 - 89-77 Next possession: Classic Hawks ball - JJ does some fancy dribbling on the wing near the Hawks bench as the shot clock runs, Zaza attempts a couple moving screens, JJ dribbles into Okafor. Meanwhile Marvin's in the corner near the Hawks bench waiting for a kickout (with Feton on him - isn't that a matchup that we'd want to exploit?), Bibby's on the opposite wing looking for a kickout, JS's on the opposite block waiting for a drive and dish or a missed shot. JJ passes to Bibby who takes a 3 with Boykins hand in his face, the ball comes back towards Bibby/Boykins, over Zaza's late hand right into Boykins hands. He catches and sprints in one motion with everyone behond him but Bibby, and takes Bibby to the rack. Marvin and JS trail back but couldn't catch up with Boykins. 8:42 - 91-77 We call a TO at 8:34 to reset. So the "run" you describe is a HUGE 3 point swing, during which the only time Marvin touched the ball something good happened, and during which all of the Cats points could be blamed on every guy on the floor other than Zaza and Marvin. So....what was you point? Now, Marvin's done plenty lately worthy of criticism, and I'm fine with that. I just can't stand reading posts blaming everything on Marvin when the rest of the team deserves at least their share of the blame.

Quote: Hawks right now. How did you find footage of Shelden learning he was about to get traded?

Quote: Any self respecting fan at this point wants no part of the playoffs. For one thing, the idiot ownership would conclude we are on the right track and bring the brilliant coach and GM back for 3 more years. Agree and disagree. I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't want to give the Suns a lottery pick.

Quote: Quote: "Listen, at the end of the day Chris and Deron are not going to help my family," Williams said defiantly. "And again, I wish them the best. If people did their homework, they'd realize those guys were doing the same things they're doing now in college. And they're probably the two best point guards in the league right now. But it has nothing to do with me and what I'm trying to do as a player and what I'm trying to do for my team. "Someone was drafted ahead of me, too. And I don't hear anybody making the big fuss about that. Nobody says anything about all the teams that passed on (Los Angeles Lakers center) Andrew (Bynum). As players we can't do anything about where we get drafted, so I wish people would just leave me out of this." i agree with Marvin, if BK had did his homework , he would have known to take Paul or Deron lol. But, really, Marvin has to understand that the Marvin/Paul/Deron thing will never go away, unless he makes it go away himself. It ain't ever going away completely. The funny thing about this article is that Sekou comes off as a detached observer who may have possibly thought Marvin was the wrong pick at the time, when in reality he was FIRED UP about Marvin. I emailed with him several times leading up to that draft and we shared the excitement, literally excitement that the Hawks were targeting Marvin. He was as sold as anyone.

Quote: And, I will probably sing a different tune after his next good game. So...what kind of a [censored] does that make you?

Quote: After the Mike Woodson disaster that has led to our current state of affairs, I would be reluctant to give the post to an unproven assistant coach or a former player with little/no experience as an NBA coach. Our roster is young and talented, and we need a disciplinarian who will demand respect and force the guys -- above all else -- to play hard and commit themselves to basketball. If you listen to Bibby's comments since he arrived in ATL and read between the lines, this consistent work ethic is something of a concern for our young club... Many of you are suggesting we hire a coach whose philosophy dictates an uptempo offensive style and gets us out on the break, and while I agree with that in principle (we have no low post presence or pure passing PG, and a collection of long & athletic F/Gs) I think it's more important to get a proven coach who is intelligent, organized, and demands discipline. While Van Gundy and Carlisle both prefer grind-it-out victories, the bottom line is that they invariably get those victories... Carlisle's first-year turnarounds are pretty impressive. We would immediately be an elite defensive team with either of these guys. If the ASG [or whoever is in charge] prefers a fast-paced offense to near-guaranteed success -- which would not surprise me one bit -- I would be intrigued by Calipari. He is not the same coach he was with the Nets, and his borrowed offensive attack philosophy not only projects well to the League [as others have mentioned, teams are already implementing it], but it also shows a willingness to adapt his style and utilize personnel correctly. I'm sure the Pauls [Westhead & Westphal] are dying for another shot in the NBA, but I don't think either would be a good idea... I liked the idea of a proven, familiar coach in Fratello with a staff full of candidates training/competing for the long term position.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: This is a little bit much. I mean your feeding off everyones frustration. He is not the worst in history, but he is the worst here since I have been a Hawks fan. Tarkanian was a horrible coach. I voted yes but honestly should have voted "maybe" which is almost as bad. Has any coach in NBA history had a worse winning % with as many games or more as Woody's coached? Maybe so, I just don't know one way or the other. This doesn't precisely answer your question but: Worst winning percentages (all-time; min. 200 games coached) Coach Sport Pct. Sidney Lowe NBA .257 Tim Floyd NBA .280 Curt Fraser NHL .285 Bobby Wallace MLB .287 Ron Rothstein NBA .296 Woody clocks in at an auspicious .306. Anyone know??? That's a great start. Sidney Lowe NBA .257 - 307 games Tim Floyd NBA .280 - 321 games Ron Rothstein NBA .296 - 328 games Woody NBA .306 - 304 games Simply amazing that our coach of over 300 games is legitimately in this conversation.

Quote: Quote: Jay Williams brings up a possible third category - the injury bust. Maybe it was a great pick, but bad luck just screwed it all up. I would throw Bowie into the injury bust category too. It really wasn't a bad pick at the time. Here's some interesting info most people don't know or remember (besides maybe AHF). http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/bowie.html Absolutely, and frankly Jordan wasn't Jordan until he hit the pro game. He always had the competitive drive, but he didn't have the game. His ridiculous work ethic, fueled by his drive, made him what he became.

Quote: "This man is a Bonafide scrub!" "The city of L.A. should have a parade". I'm curious as to how hawksquawk would rank the all time biggest busts. This could incite a huge flame war as I'm sure the placement of Marvin would be highly debated, but I'm curious anyway. Is Kwame in the running for #1? What about the Kandi Man? Bowie? Darko? Bender? Also, are there two different measures? 1) The Bowie/Marvin "opportunity cost" measure. This has more to do with who wasn't picked rather than who was picked. Let's pretend Marvin become an All Star one day but Chris Paul's a hall of famer. In and of itself, Marvin is not a bust. Considering what we missed, the pick is a HUGE bust. 2) The truly bad player measure. Regardless of who you could have picked, the guy you picked is terrible and never amounted to anything. There's a definite distinction there, so 2 separate lists may be appropriate. Here are some links I found quickly: http://www.realgm.com/src_feature/158/2005..._draft_history/ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi.../content.1.html http://hubpages.com/hub/Top_10_NBA_Draft_B...n_Last_10_Years Jay Williams brings up a possible third category - the injury bust. Maybe it was a great pick, but bad luck just screwed it all up.

Quote: Unfortunately, the Hawks do not play smart basketball. A lot of that can be blamed on the coach but the players are all knuckleheads too, so they need to take ownership of the problem as well. I don't think anyone here disagrees that the players need to hold themselves accountable, and that they deserve a huge portion of the blame. But at the end of the day there's only one guy who can try to wake them up and get them to hold themselves accountable. That's the head coach. Woody's lost this team. Let's say that's 50% Woody's fault, 50% the players' fault. There are only two solutions. 1) Get all new players who will listen to Woody, 2) Get a new coach who can try to get their attention. Let's say for argument's sake that Woody's a B- coach that can't get his team to do what he wants them to do. Even a C- coach could be more successful with this team if he can get their attention and get them to do what they need to be doing. Woody and this team is a lost cause. Waiting any longer is only delaying the inevitable.

Quote: Quote: can't believe i am the first to say it.... STEVE SMITH!!!!! My dream staff: Fratello as Head Coach Assistants: Kevin Willis - Bigs and defense Mark Jackson - PGs and offense Steve Smith - Wings and overall game planning If we ever get banged up All 3 could still put on a jersey. Fratello retires in a few years and either Jackson or Smith take over as HC. Where do I sign up?

Quote: Quote: This is a little bit much. I mean your feeding off everyones frustration. He is not the worst in history, but he is the worst here since I have been a Hawks fan. Tarkanian was a horrible coach. I voted yes but honestly should have voted "maybe" which is almost as bad. Has any coach in NBA history had a worse winning % with as many games or more as Woody's coached? Maybe so, I just don't know one way or the other. Anyone know???

Quote: This is a little bit much. I mean your feeding off everyones frustration. He is not the worst in history, but he is the worst here since I have been a Hawks fan. Tarkanian was a horrible coach. I voted yes but honestly should have voted "maybe" which is almost as bad. Has any coach in NBA history had a worse winning % with as many games or more as Woody's coached? Maybe so, I just don't know one way or the other.

Quote: I've been here longer than you fool. How can you watch what these "players" have done and like them even the slightest little bit? They're sorry excuse for NBA players. The win/loss record is 100% proof of that. 100% proof. You could post 100,000 times but you'll still be what you are - a troll. You hate every player and the coach, yet you're here every time I sign in. If that's not the behavior of a troll I don't know what is. your forum

Quote: Honestly, I could care less what happens to any player on this roster. I hate them all. troll

Quote: The first two months of the season Marvin averaged 16 ppg shooting 50%. In Feb he averaged 11.7 ppg shooting 35%. I knew that his game had dropped off but i didn't realize how far it had fallen. It is easy to forget now but Marvin was our most consistently player early in the season. He played in only 1 game where he didn't score in double figures during Nov and Dec. What happened? An injury's a possibility. Part of me has always wondered if there's tension between Marvin and JJ/Smith. They high five here and there but they don't seem tight to me. Marvin seems to have chemistry with Childress, but I've never seen it with JJ and Smith. They don't seem to look for him in the offense, and that's not an excuse, it could just as easily be an indictment of something they don't like about Marvin or something he doesn't do/does do...as it could be an indictment of JJ/Smith. But it seems like as Josh Smith's game becomes more and more impressive and as our team depends on him more and more, Marvin's game and role on the squad dwindles. I really hope it's something else, like an injury. His November/December was night to his January/February. His progression was slow and steady throughout his young career and he looked poised to really become a good player by year end with as consistent a game as I've seen on the Hawks in recent memory. But since then he's been erratic at best.

Quote: Quote: He disappears when we need him, h's very unclutch, he can't guard superstar players, he's gets lockdown against double-teams. I think he would excel if he was the 3nd or 3rd option. I don't think we have to go get a superstar, I think Smoove, Marvin, or Horford need to take that next step to their game. Like I said . . Hawksquawk has VERY short memories. Year 1 of JJ in ATL: He's asked to play the point. When it is evident that it's not in the team's best interest to play the point, he's asked to be a playmaker type shooting guard. The result? He averages 20.5 ppg and 6.5 assists. When you look at the guys who scored a total of 1600 points, 500 assists, and had 100 steals that season, JJ is in a group that includes LeBron, Wade, Iverson, and Arenas. Kobe is usually in that group, but he didn't have the assists that year. Year 2 of JJ in ATL: He still has to be the playmaker on the team, seeing how our PG situation is still not settled. But he does something that no one expects, and that's really become more of a scorer. Although the season is a failure, JJ averages 25 ppg, 4 assists and 4 rebounds. He also shoots 47% FG, which is pretty high for a 2 guard/small forward that has to do it all for their team. Once again, he's in a select group of 2's and/or 3's that averaged 25 ppg or more, while shooting 47% or more. Only Wade and LeBron achieved that feat last year. Year 3 of JJ in ATL: The PG situation is still unsettled, although it is better than the previous 2 years. JJ is still asked to do everything. But this year, the shots don't fall as easy as they did in the past 2 years. More noteably, teams are looking to flat out shut JJ down, treating him like they would a megastar player. And it is immeadiately noticed by fans and media types, that JJ doesn't have the "pop" that he had in his game last year. So questions about him wearing down or possibly still being hurt come into question. This year, we've only seen flashes of the player that we've seen for the past 2 years. The big thing about JJ this year, is that he's not hitting the floater at a high percentage. That shot used to be money throughout his career. He doesn't have the lift and explosiveness thathe had last year, a lot like what you see from Wade this year. He may not admit to it, but he's not 100% folks. Some games you can see the pep in his step, but because he has to play heavy minutes in order for us to win, he'll wear down a little more easily. While he's not in the Kobe, Lebron group, he's definitely on that 2nd level. Let's see how he plays next year, before making sweeping negative generalizations about his game. It's just a shame that this fan base has always underappreciated what he's done here. I still love JJ and believe he's got the game to be a perennial all star, but I'm concerned that something's messed up in his head or his heart. Despite all the losing over the first two years he always had the right attitude and seemd to enjoy being the man on this bad team. But his attitude has been less than positive all season, and he no longer seems to enjoy being a part of this team, even though the young guys are older, we improved our talent with Horford (and Acie), and we made a move for a legit PG. He still seems put out. I can't really blame him for losing heart under these circumstances, I'm just surprised that if that's the case that it happened as our franchise started to gain some momentum as opposed to losing heart at some point during the last couple of dreadful seasons.

Quote: Ok, Playing off of CoachX. (I think). Let's say Hawks Ownership sat down with Larry Brown when we played Philly Last. And they said " What do you see as the problem?" LB: I don't think Woody is the problem. I think he has been giving a bad hand and he's playing with it the best that he can. ASG: What's the problem? LB: You have too many wings and not enough essential pieces. You need good players at the 1 and 5 if you want to survive in the NBA. ASG: If you were GM what would you do? LB: My sources tell me that Bibby is on the blocks. I would go out and get Bibby. He's got a large contract so he should be cheap. ASG talks to BK, encourages him to find a good deal for Bibby. He does. BK: OK, now we're going to finally fire Woody right? ASG: NO. There's no problem with Woody. We will let him ride out his contract.... Now, if this was the way it happened, I can see BK kinda being a little peeved and maybe him and his agent leaking that he has tried to fire Woody three times. BK has to realize that somebody else is calling the GM shots (Larry Brown) and he needs to clear the air about certain GM decisions he has made so as to not look like it was all him all the time. Unfortunately for BK, he will always be the man who took Marvin over Chris Paul. But to keep the Soap Opera going... here's the prediction. Larry Brown becomes GM. He allows Mike Woodson to continue as HC... but he probably brings in a top assistant to handle the offense. Larry Brown also goes for a veteran big man. LB has never been one to deal with young players very well, so I see him going for some more vets. The big might be a guy like Brad Miller... LBrown has to love a guy like Horf. LBrown might not be so fond of Smoove. I just don't remember LBrown getting along too well with young passionate players like Smoove. Well, he did get Sheed?? How do you think LBrown will build the Hawks? LB may be your worst nightmare. He's a UNC loyalist to the bone...

Quote: Quote: This is a pattern of Woodson being unable to make substantial in-game adjustments. 2 questions: 1) Did Woody's lack of adjustments lose the game for us last night? 2) What adjustments would you have made, that Woody didn't make? 1) There's no way to know. 2) AHF isn't an NBA coach, Woody should know better. Here are a couple questions for you: 1) Name every current NBA coach that ranks below Woody - are there any? 2) Give me a few examples of games where Woody won us a game with his coaching. Judging coaching is nearly impossible unless you're in the huddle. Woody is CERTAINLY not the only one to blame, but it's not like he's doing some kind of fantastic job. We need a fresh start before our young talent becomes young and restless, frustrted, get me the hell out of Atlanta talent.

Quote: I know if we were smarter, we could beat this team. Even though we have no answer for Garnett, I don't think he's the problem. The problem is JJ disappears like Mumrah on Thundercats... and Josh Smith makes too many boneheaded non-basketball plays. We actually made Kendrick Perkin look like a top 3 Center. One other problem. Can we get a damn call??? KG is getting touch fouls. Our guys are getting hacked all over the place... no call. Moreover, Did anybody not notice Big Baby travel everytime he touched the ball. Seriously, I counted one time that he touched the ball that he didn't travel. Marvin, are you guarding Paul Pierce?? Marvin, can you give more effort? We have to do much better!!! You're not even getting your Marv hate right these days. He was still not moving on offense last night, but his defense was very good. Marvin's doing enough poorly that you shouldn't have to make things up.

Quote: I know we can't blame Woody for every lost or everything. We had a lot of chances to win this game. The shots of Bibby and JJ just did not fall. That being said... Woody, MY GOD, needs to go. This is the 3rd player he has done this to this year. He did it to Law on one of his break-out games. He did it to Salim and now Marvin. When you got guys who are not playing well, once they do have a good game you have to play those guys. You can't [censored] them down. That is not a great confidence builder. Marvin just missed a game and only played 20 against NY. I'm on the fire Woody bandwagon as much as anyone, but I think common sense would tell us that Woody deserves the benefit of the doubt on this one. Marvin would have been put in had he been healthy. Woody's never "benched" him before and it would be absurd to think he'd bench him during this game when Marvin was playing good D on their wing players and having a solid game. He didn't get out on Ray on that one three and KG powered him off the block for an easy score, but those were the only clear defensive mistakes he made during the game

Quote: I'm not a big Marvin fan, but it's silly to bash him for his play in this game. He played well in the first half, but Woody is coaching for his job right now. Marvin has been struggling for a while, so it's easy to understand why Woody has given Childress most of the 4th quarter minutes the last 2 games. Seems pretty obvious to me that Marvin must not be 100%, whether it be the flu that kept him out 3 games ago or some kind of injury. Woody's never kept him out for as long as he has for the past two games, and last night he was playing well and making a difference defensively while he was on the court. Sure, there's a chance Woody has benched him, but it seems much more likely that he's not 100% yet.

Quote: No sense bringing in Marvin when Childress is scoring. I'm sure Marvin will be back in there as soon as Childress stops scoring. Marvin could have come in, sliding Childress back over to the 2 so JJ could have a rest. It's not like JJ was helping us much on the floor chucking shots and dribbling off his feet. Marv must still be sick or banged up. 22 minutes on Friday and 20 tonight. Of course no info from the announcers that I noticed.

Quote: Good job getting Childress motivated. 3 straight possessions he comes down and plays Childress basketball. We really needed it too. Anybody else out there rooting for both Marvin AND Childress?