thesheedera

On offense he's been very bad lately, but his defense had actually been pretty darn good, including last night.

You're the one who responded to my chatroom comments, I didn't pin any blame on you. You chose to speak up for the pessimists so I addressed you. If every player sucks so bad and the situation is so hopeless why do you bother to follow the team? Where did I ask anyone to pat anyone on the back or be unrealistic about how the team's playing? I'm just saying shut the f up every once in a while after they'ved fully expressed who sukcs and how much they hate players, x, y and z.

Quote: Why should we be "good fans"? What have the Hawks done for the fans besides lose and raise ticket prices? Seriously, come down to earth. The Hawks have won 8 games in two months. What team wins 8 out of 26 games and then decides to raise ticket prices? What does the attitude you bring into a chatroom have to do with ticket prices? You're doing NOTHING to affect the organization, believe it or not, by coming on here and crying like a [censored] all the time. All you're doing is making this fan website a miserable place for other fans who like to follow the Hawks. No one in the chatroom or on the boards has any authorty over wins/losses or ticket prices. You want to affect change by being surly? Do it in a letter, email or phonecall to someone who can make somthing happen. Stop spilling hate and pessimism all over a WEBSITE FOR FANS. THIS WEBSITE IS FOR FANS. NOT OWNERSHIP, NOT MANAGEMENT, NOT COACHING STAFF NOR THE PLAYERS. The more you [censored], the less other posters want to come on here, but it won't make the team any better. I don't give a damn if you're a good fan or not. I'm just sick and f-ing tired of reading you negitive bullshit! It isn't doing anyone any good!

Quote: That's something the Hawks may consider. Again, I like Marvin but, I think Hawks management feels that he just has to be a star player because of where he was drafted. Because of that, I think they're trying to push him into a player that he's not and that type of mentality is not good for Marvin or for the future of the ball club. I'm not knocking Marvin, I just think Hawks management has an agenda because of where he was drafted and it's holding back him and the team. I disagree. I don't think they're doing anything "to" Marvin other than playing him big minutes. If our offense had more recognizable structure than it might be easy to find ways that we use him which we try o make him more than he can be, but as it is I haven't ever seen it. It looks to me like he's asked to look for space to get his 18 foot jumper, and very occassionally to set up about 10-15 feet out for an isolation. If anything the staff/management needs to be encouraging him to do MORE. To extend his range, to polish his one on one game, to focus on rebounds as opposed to getting back on defense like a guard. I think the idea that our management and staff are driven by Marvin's #2 draft position is a myth. Let's face it, while he was an extremely high draft pick that isn't exactly a huge rarity on this team. Horford was one pick below him in a stronger draft. He's been thrown to the wolves and rightfully so. He's already paying dividends while being asked to play slightly out of position. He plays because we need him to and at the end of the day were better off with him on the floor than off it. Childress was 4 picks behind Marvin in a different draft and for the most part has been given the same opportunity in minutes played and in all honesty has been asked to do MORE than Marvin has by playing time at the 1 and 2. I personally don't think he should be playing either of those spots unless in an emergency. Childress plays because we need him to and at the end of the day we're better off with him than without him. Shelden was only three picks behind him in a similar draft and he was shipped off. He didn't play because he didn't earn the favor of Woodson. He didn't play because he didn't do the things we needed him to do, and it's difficult to argue that we were better off with him. I was expecting him to be better, and I was expecting him to get more of an opportunity, but it just didn't work here. Marvin plays big minutes because we need him to and because we're better off with him than without him. To think that the only reason why Marvin starts and gets pt is due to our "investment" is inconsistent with the way that Shelden was banished to the end of the bench. Is a #5 really that much less valuable to a team to develop than a #2? Our #2, 3, and 6 picks all have a lot of pressure, responsibility and are given ample opportunity. Our #5 rarely played and got traded. I personally think the reasoning being those two extremes are due to what the staff thinks gives us the best chance to win, rather than soley because of where they were picked. Marvin has been disappointing lately, but he was showing a lot of improvement early in the season. Posters were excited. Some naysayers were switching sides. His supporters were fired up. He was incredibly consistent and dependable, but rarely spectacular. He's been much less consistent in 2008. He's had some of his best games of his career during that stretch, some moments of spectcular play, but he's also had some of his most disappointing. He isn't "there" yet, clearly, but I believe he has plenty of room to grow and I still expect him to get "there". The bottom line thoug is that for him to reach his potential he needs to be pushed by the powers that be to continue to grow and to be more to this team than he is, rather than being told to settle into a comfort zone he can ease into.

Quote: Woody is an idot, Josh Smith sucks, Marvin Williams sucks, JJ sucks, Bibby sucks, Childress sucks, Salim sucks, Horford sucks, Salim sucks, Solo sucks. A perfect summary of the chatroom discussion. I was in there most of the game but couldn't make the effort to add to the discussion it was so full of vile nonsense. I understand frustration as well as anyone, but "vent" at home, yell out loud, throw something, etc. If you feel the need to share your hate try to make your point once. The repetitive negativity is so tiresome, and it was in the midst of a game we eventually had a legitimate chance to win because some of the guys getting the most hate stepped up and turned their play around. Ironic, ain't it? To those few spewing pessimism all over the chatroom last night, nothing about that behavior reflects being a good fan. When you hate more than half the team and think everything sucks, turn off the f-ing tv and turn off the f-ing computer, and let the fans with some faith in these players and the team at least try to enjoy the games. You suck.

Quote: Quote: I've seen it very often. It's a shame that some of you are so biased against him that you will refuse to acknowledge anything he does well. Well. I watch the games, and i have not seen that very often. Marvin has a nice jumpshot, but it has not been falling for about a month and a half. If his jumper isn't falling he should drive but, most of the time he falls down, or gets stripped, or takes a wild shot.We have seen it over and over again. If your are saying that creating his own shot is something that he does well, then i would question if you actually watch the games . It's really funny that you can say things like: "Smith can't dribble, or Childress can't shoot or Zaza can't play defense" Noone has a problem with that.But if you say that Marvin cant do something , then the "Marvin protection squad" comes to the rescue. Even on a poor shooting night like last night Marvin was setting up to receive the ball with his back to the basket fropm about 10-15 feet out. He wasn't just shooting a bunch of jumpshots (though he missed most of the ones he made) but ratehr he was getting some good looks either over his man or off a couple of dribbles, once or twice on the running hook shot that I think he should make his signature. His reach is long enough that he very rarely gets that shot blocked. Last night they didn't fall, but he did get to the line and he was taking more aggressive shots than the 18 foot jumper. To say he can't create for himself at all is absurd. To say his execution in converting those shots into made baskets has been poor lately is completely fair. But if you honestly don't think that he can create his own shots you clearly aren't watching him play.

And hopefully Law will become a player that can do the same on a consistent basis as well.

I see posts both praising and trashing Salim, Marvin, Childress and Smith. Some good stuff about Bibby, Horford and Richadson. But VERY LITTLE on Joe Johnson. Almost posted a triple double and he clearly made an effort to get to the rim more often than taking the defended jumpers. He's been getting a lot of heat lately but last night he looked like the guy we've been so excited during his best stretches as a Hawk. I for one am relieved and I hope it keeps up for the rest of the season.

Quote: I'm sure the national media would consider this a promotion. Personally I don't think it would be much of a demotion.

He's been anything BUT injury prone in his career. Speedy's been anything BUT healthy in his career: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=61 Games played: 50, 82, 82, 80, 55 (strike?), 82, 80, 82, 82 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/stats?playerId=150 67, 30 (strike?), 60, 62, 71, 42

Huge upgrade, great work, and thanks a lot.

I see his role as a garbage time guy and someone who can help when a perimeter player is in foul trouble or banged up. The only players that this should worry are Salim and Mario.

Quote: I will be disappointed with anything less than 18-15 over the balance of the season. I sort of agree here, but I'd give a cushion of one more loss before I get disappointed. I think getting back to .500 would be an incredible feat, especially since Bibby has to break in with the new squad on a 5 game west trip without any prep. 19-14 would get me plenty excited and would get us to 40 wins. 40 wins isn't .500, but it feels a ton better to me than finishing in the 30s. It should also be plenty to get us in the picture for the 6th spot. 19 is the magic number in my mind, the carrot at the end of the stick. 17-16 or 18-15 and I'll be satisfied but not all that "excited". I would, however, be excited about next season with that kind of finish, assuming we can keep the squad together. Finishing the last stretch over .500 would be a good sign, especially with the comfort of heading into an offseason and training camp for the team to continue to get acclimated and build familiarity and chemistry. From there it's a pretty fine line, because if we go below .500 for the rest of the games I'll likely be disappointed (very disappointed with 15 or fewer wins) and a little worried about next season and the future in general.

Is this getting close to a complete list? jason terry emanuel davis jacque vaughn royal ivey tyronne lue anthony johnson acie law mike bibby Bimbo coloes Matt Maloney Brevin Knight Kenny Andersen Diaw Cedric Bozeman Travis Hanson Bobby Sura Tony Delk Speedy Claxton Morlon Wiley Dan Dickau Joe Johnson Childress? Salim?

The problem is that some posters feel the need to "pick a side" in an imaginary battle between our talented young forwards. Those that choose Childress seem to see Marvin as the threat and dog him. Those that choose Marvin seem to dog both Childress and Smith. Those choose Smith typically only dog Marvin, but sometimes they complain about Horford too. I choose to choose them all until they get sent packing.

Quote: Quote: marvin this year is good for one thing...mid range shot. why not bring him off the bench. he did it in college so he wouldnt mind And that mid range jump shot is Josh Smith's biggest weakness. Why the hell would you move Josh Smith to the 3 where he would be forced/inclined to take more perimeter jump shots? Why the hell would you move Josh Smith to a position where defensively he would be forced to defend the perimeter a lot more often taking him away from what he does best on defense? You would be highlighting his weaknesses and going away from his strengths. It makes no freaking sense. It's like telling Lebron James to chuck 10 3s a game instead of powering to the basket It's like telling a prime Shaq to play like Rasheed Wallace. Why the hell go away from a player's strengths? Shooting jumpers is not a prerequisite for playing small forward. Some SF's shoot jumpers, some slash, some patrol the baselines, some play inside, etc. etc. It's as flexible a position as they come.

Quote: Remember how bad we thought Diaw sucked, then he went to the Suns and started getting triple doubles. But Diaw had a huge case of the Nash factor working in his favor.

Quote: Quote: a few names for you: jason terry emanuel davis jacque vaughn royal ivey tyronne lue anthony johnson acie law mike bibby You forgot: Bimbo Coles Brevin Knight Matt Maloney Tony Delk Speedy Claxton (yes, he did actually play a few games) This is perfect. Have Childress or Salim started any games for us at PG?

Someone please help chronicle for us the string of players we've had start games that bridges Doc to Mookie, and more importantly Mookie to Bibby.

Quote: So far more people (12) would like to see Horford as a full time 4 than a full time 5 (8). Since the only roster assumption i made was that Smith was on the roster I see only one way to interpret this. Many people here seem more comfortable with Smith at the 3 than Horford at the 5. Here's how I see it: Moving Horford to the 4 means that we acquired a center that is better than Horford is at center, is better at center than Smith is at PF, and better at center than Marvin is at small forward. Otherwise Horford will still have to play center, because he'd be our best center available. Smith is not a better "Small Forward" than Marvin, but I'd rather have a hybrid SF/PF who plays like Josh Smith than a true SF playing like Marvin - I love Marvin, but I'm not an idiot and recognize that even a flawed Smith has to be on the floor as much as possible. What's funny to me is that people assume that if Smith plays alongside Horford and a center that all of the sudden he has to or will feel the need to start jacking long jumpers. Childress doesn't jack jumpers in his time at the 3, he roams the baselines with great success. Smith isn't a perfect SF, but there's no reason why our team can't be successful with him on the floor with Horford, random legit Center, Johnson and Bibby. On the other hand I think Horford IS a perfect PF, and would gladly sacrifice Marvin's role as a starter to get a true center at the 5 and shift Horford to the 4.

Quote: Quote: ...pride smart player I think that could be key..."pride"...he may want to show the league that he doesn't suck. Somebody say 1-2-3 go...1-2-3 GO! Not just that but more specifically that he doesn't suck heading into a contract year.

I agree. Unless it's another deal that CLEARLY makes us better. Bibby won't be dropping 10+ dimes a game, but his presence as a scoring threat, a floor spreader, and a better than adequate distributor should help each of our players significantly.

The ONLY thing I have been discussing in this thread was your preference of Marvin + Acie over Paul. Horford has nothing to do with that. JJ has nothing to do with that. Smith has nothing to do with that. Period. You said you'd rather have Marvin and Acie than Paul, and I strongly disagree.

That makes some sense. But I guess what's bothering me is that some posters seem almost enthusiastic about getting rid of one or more of our core players. I'd be all for moving one or more to significantly improve the team. But I would only be excited about what we'd be bringing in and I'd be sad to see one of these guys go. It seems like some posters are just jumping at the chance to see one of them pack there bags, even for a marginal trade.

Quote: Yeah it's nice seeing JJ run up and down the floor and nobody passing to him. Now he knows what it's like being on the floor with him, Smith and Lue at the same time. j/k sort of