Where does Big Dog Rank??

[Guest]

Amoung the best SF's

Richard Jefferson

Big Dog

Shawn Marion

Grant Hill(going by last years stats)

Shane Battier

Rashard Lewis

Kevin Garnett

Lamar Odom

Keith Van Horn

Peja

Jamal Mashburn

Tim Thomas

Donyell Marshall

Jalen Rose

I'd rank them this way:

1)KG

2)Shawn Marion

3)Grant Hill(17PPG 8RPG 5APG)

4)Jamal Mashburn-I used to didn't respect his game but do now

5)Jalen Rose

6)Peja

7)Lamar Odom

8)Rashard Lewis

9)Glenn Robinson

10)Richard Jefferson

11)Shane Battier

12)KVH

13)Tim Thomas

14)Donyell Marshall

I'll probably get some heat for putting Mash and

Jalen over Peja but they are more complete players.

[Guest]

*1) Dirk - if you consider him a small.

---using Hot's players listed---

1)KG (call him a 3 or a 4...it'd be close between him and Dirk, but the edge to KG for playing D...but doesn't have near the range of Dirk).

2) Grant Hill

3) Jalen Rose - selfish at times, he can score at will and play the all-round game

4) Peja - not afraid to drive the lane or post-up, it's hard to ignore the 3pt champ. Enough other aspects to barely edge...

5) Jamal Mashburn- has learned to play all-round; probably the best post-up player behind KG.

6) Shawn Marion - thought about this one for awhile - while his shot's sorta bunk, he does everything you want.

7) Big Dog - scoring hasn't changed, regardless who's on the the team/ scoring points as well. Boards well and gets some steals.

8) Lamar Odom - hard to rank due to his health last year. In top form, he'd be higher than this. Does it all...but does he care? (see rehab notes from this summer)

9) Rashard Lewis - long and smooth, he's still on the "learning curve"

10) Shane Battier - doesn't have the range of some, but he plays the all-round game (what you really want in a sf) - can hit the open shot, play D...VERY cerebral player, second behind Hill on this list in that regard.

11) Richard Jefferson - they're talking potential star and I like his game...but he's not quite there yet. Has the athleticism that others on this list don't. Big year for him.

12)KVH - if he were consistent, he'd be a lot higher. Can shoot the lights out when on from anywhere on the court and plays average D. That damn consistency thing though...

13)Tim Thomas - how do you rank him? He's been bu behind Glenn for so long. When I've seen him, I've liked him, but I don't think anyone really knows what to expect due to lack of real pt.

14)Donyell Marshall - similar to Marion (without the same athleticism), he crashes the boards, plays within the system, and shoots and incredibly high percentage. Going to Utah helped this guy more than we will ever know.

---I didn't really look into adding anyone that wasn't already on teh list. Call me lazy. But in compiling this list, I noticed an interesting dichotomy - some are fantastic 3pt shooters, others are ok, and still others have no semblance of an outside shot. Tough list to make because so much of what is expected depends on what the team needs from the position (scorer, D, boards, energy, post-up, long-range, etc.). Not a group of "similar" players...

[Iman]

Yup, I'd pretty much agree with those rankings but I'd probably put Big Dawg a little higher and Peja a little lower. Really to me what you have is KG (and Dirk if you count him) in a seperate class. If Grant Hill comes back he would be more of the protypical SF. You have a few very good players who play some SF such as Paul Pierce or Tracy McGrady but nowadays are really just big SG's. Then you have lotsa other players which are similar and could excel or not based on how they are used on a team. Peja fits the Kings well. If you ranked them based on how they'd likely fit with out team I guess I'd take KG, Marion, Mash, then probably Big Dawg. I just dont know what to expect from Grant and surely wouldnt risk trading for him given how many other injury risks we already have. I wouldnt really want Peja much at all.

[Traceman]

Here are my rankings:

1) KG. If he's considered a SF, he's the best.

2) Grant Hill. If he's anywhere near his old self.

3) Marion. Terrific on both ends of the floor.

4) Big Dog. The numbers speak for themselves.

5) Peja. The team won with him in and C Webb out.

6) Mash. Good player but horrible FG% & No D.

7) Jalen Rose. Good all around player but horrible D.

8) Odom - Has top 3 talent but what has he done?

9) Lewis - has talent but hasn't produced like top guys.

10) KVH - has talent to be higher but hasn't done much.

11) Tim Thomas - see KVH.

12) Jefferson - lets see him do it when he's the starter.

13) Donyell Marshall - solid but no spectacular

14) Battier - will move up with another solid year

I think there is a SIGNIFICANT gap between the top 2 (KG and a healthy Hill) and the next 5 (Marion, Dog, Peja, Mash & Rose). I think KG and Hill are SUPERSTARS and the next 5 are All Stars. I think there is another significant gap between the 5 All Stars and the next group. That last group is filled with guys with unrealized potential up to this point. If they have good season this year, they could very well move up.

If you compare Big Dog statistically with the top guys, he stacks up very well in every category and he has put up consistently good numbers for his entire career. Mash and Rose have had a few good seasons but even if you only look at the last 2 seasons, they don't quite stack up to the Big Dog. An argument can certainly be made that Stojokovic is better but I think Dog still gets a SLIGHT nod because he is better defensively and he rebounds better.

[Guest]

The reason Mash/Rose are better is because

they are allround players.Rose will probably

average about:

23PPG

4RPG

6APG

This year

and Mash will probably average 18/6/5

Big Dog is pretty much just a scorer and doesn't

provide much of anything else.

[Guest]

Year in year out, Dogg's good for six plus boards, 1 plus steal, and a block or so...those are pretty good numbers for a guy that scores 20+ ppg every year, shoots at a good clip (46.3, never higher than 4, never lower than 45 )...he's a scorer with a decent all-round game. His numbers really aren't that different from Rose's...just switch boards and assts.

Jalen's more athletic and has had one season where he averaged 23 ppg (but many below that for a career 13.3) but shoots at a slightly lower ft%, the exact same from 3, has fewer blocks, fewer boards, fewer steals, and only a little more than 1 asst. more per game - I hadn't really looked at their numbers that much until now. GR continues to impress me with his percentages and consistency.

[Guest]

Stats aren't everything.You can watch and

see who is better.Mash and Rose also have

the ability to take the game over.If you had

replaced Big Dog with Rose last year no way

the Bucks miss the playoffs.

Just my opinion,but when you watch games

you can tell who is betters.Big Dog's boards

at 5.9 is nothing to brag about.

Rose and Mash have alot better ball handling

skills.

[Traceman]

What do you mean "you can watch and see who's better?" When I watch, I see Big Dog outperforming both of those guys night in and night out. Sure Rose and Mash are capable of big scoring nights when they are on but Dog is on a lot more than either of them which is why he is a better player than either of them on most nights.

I agree with you that Mash and Rose are better ballhandlers and passers than Big Dog. But neither of them shoot the J as consistently as he does and he is a better rebounder than either of them on a consistent basis. He averages more steals and more blocks than either of them too which indicates that he the best defender of the 3.

I've always liked Big Dog. He's not a great player but he's a damn good one and I'd rather have his consistentcy than what I would get occasionally from Rose or Mash.

[Guest]

While Big Dog might have them by a hair on

steals and blocks Rose and Mash ball handling

and passing ability make up for it.Not to mention

they both can play two or three positions while

Big Dog is just a shooting SF...His 46.7%fg is

pretty good but it's not great.

Big Dog is not scrub by any means but he didn't

look good at all when we played him last at the

end of last year.

[Guest]

I remember the last time we played them

during the whole lights problem.I remember

how he looked truely unhappy sitting on the

bench.I haven't seen basketball players with

that type of expression very often.He looked

really depressed you could see it in his eyes.

I expect he will be happy here.He is a really

good player without a doubt and it will be

great to have a good midrange shooter and

he does have two allstar apperances to back

him up while Marion doesn't have any and

Peja only has one?

I think alot of times I might fall prey to the

"grass is greener on the otherside"theory that

jay has spoke about before.

[hds428]

but no way Mash is better than Dogg. I like Mash's game too, but I'll take Robinson's ability to play more than 12 games a season any day.

[Guest]

Talent is different.Mash is the more talented player

[pathway23]

Yeah when the gimp is playing;)

[hds428]

Mash may be more talented or more well rounded, but when it's playoff time, I feel much better with my 20 ppg'er on the floor than in the back of an ambulance.