Sothron

Winning cures everything. This team of young, inexperienced talent with no leadership would instantly become an exciting young team with dynamic veteran leadership.

I wouldn't be averse to giving up Marvin or Smoove if we got Jermaine O'Neal back. This team hasn't had a low post threat in the slightest since SAR was here.

Quote: Then you never watched Lo play..At times he played hard and at times he played with indifference..There is a reason he was never able to crack the starting rotation with the Hawks or the Clippers and that was his drive.. I can almost put money on the fact I watched him play more than you did. I don't miss too many Hawks games in about thirty years of watching the team. Wright cared about winning and he took it badly when we lost. Out of that entire roster he was the only one that even cared. It wasn't his heart that kept him from being a starter for the Clippers or for us. He gave an effort which is more than I can say for a lot of the bums we've had on this team in the last eight years.

I don't know where this "Lazy" tag is coming from for Wright. On that team he was on, and if Jason Walker was here he would verify it, Lo Wright was the only player who even cared about winning games or gave any real effort. He played hard for us. He never was as good as he was drafted to be but at least he tries.

I think this delay helps the Hawks. More teams now are ready to deal for Harrington to try and catch up with the moves other teams have made so far.

KG had a "higher ceiling" and he only went 5th, McGrady had a "higher ceiling", Kobe had a "higher ceiling"...trust me, if you want to swap tit for tat I can do it all night long. I don't think we would disagree that Biedrins on OUR team and not a badly run franchise in GS would either start or get significant minutes at this point. Chill on this team right now will NEVER start for us. Biedrins as either a starter or about to become one (my personal guess is that he would be starting at this point in his career for us) is worth more than a role player off the bench. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. And btw, I would love to trade some of our young guys for players like O'Neal or possibly Arenas. I also think the Bulls were insanely stupid for trading Brand, a proven 20/10 player for Chandler whose high school rep (if you remember back that far) was that even back then he had almost zero offense besides putbacks, tipins and wide open dunks. Funny how that never changed.

Again, the only reason he's not getting more minutes in GS is because Chris Mullin their GM put his rep on the line to resign Foyle and as a result he has to start him. It happens all the time in sports. We have seen the best Chill can do. He's not going to get appreciably better from here on out. Biedrins OTOH is younger than Josh Smith and still has a higher ceiling. If we right now had the choice of dumping Childress to get a young big with potential I would do that without question. Childress will never start for this team. Any young big man with a higher ceiling than Zaza (such as Biedrins) is worth more to us than a bench player.

Quote: There is no way in hell that we'd start Miller over Speedy Er...Miller is somewhere between three times to four times better than Claxton. Claxton is best served as he was last year as a 6th man off the bench. Miller is a top 5 PG in the league. Its not even remotely close to compare them.

I'm not sure where I said he was better than Chill RIGHT NOW but consider Biedrins is younger than even Josh Smith and he's a big man who as a rule don't hit their stride until 26...yeah, looking back on it, we absolutely should have taken Biedrins and groom him.

What good players exactly are you talking about? We already lost our chance to get Magloire. The only other names I'm seeing bandied about are Chris Mihm (ugh) or hoping we can talk Denver into letting go of Miller or Camby. Who else do you have in mind that we can realistically trade for?

I'd love to see Miller or Camby come back for just Harrington.

Quote: Quote: So according to you we should either A. Fill up our cap with mediocre players Who said mediocre players? Don't twist the facts. I am saying its better to get a sure thing than nothing. Apparently what you want to do is overpay players. We already overpaid Joe Johnson to get him on this team. If we have to overpay to bring in a real floor leader like Hinrich or a real good young big in Kaman then that is what we do. After all what is the point of conserving cap space except to go after needed free agents to make your team competitive? Last I heard cap space didn't win you too many games.

Mihm does in fact suck. Zero defense, mediocre rebounding, a career backup until last season where he was forced to start...what's the attraction? Only if we got an unprotected 1st rounder from the Lakers would it be worthwhile IMO.

I just wanted to add if you guys like using minis have you tried Warhammer gaming? Its tabletop wargame playing and very fun.

Quote: Quote: They don't want to set a precedent by giving Kaman a max deal then having to deal with overpaying their own guys to keep them. Let's don't discount the Donald Sterling factor either: he's the literal case example used in all sports for a cheap owner. Why would he ok giving Kaman a max deal or matching one for him? What "own guys" are you talking about? The only one they have on a rookie contract is Livingston and the new guy they picked up this year. It is fairly obvious they will give Livingston a Max or near Max deal when the time comes. And they already did set a precedent, they gave Brand a Max deal when the Max was worth more. Quote: As for Hinrich, we can dish out Lue or Claxton if need be for a servicable backup point guard. Claxton is not a franchise point guard and frankly isn't even really a starting one. He's best served as a sixth man off the bench in the PG role like he was used in NO/OKC. I doubt that. Plus, it is very obvious that BK believes Speedy is our starting PG. Just look at all he has said about Speedy. And you don't pay $6+ mil for a back-up, he is our starting PG whether you like it or not. So according to you we should either A. Fill up our cap with mediocre players Or B. Never actually make an effort to bring real talent on the team instead of someone's castoff (Claxton) Should we bother to play the games or just mail those in as well? The Clippers will not give Kaman a max deal. The Bulls will not give Hinrich a max deal. We should either take a one year rental at center and shoot for the moon in the 2007 FA or find a way to get someone with real talent (Camby) without overpaying to get him. This roster as it stands now is going to be yet another lottery team with a huge hole in the interior.

They don't want to set a precedent by giving Kaman a max deal then having to deal with overpaying their own guys to keep them. Let's don't discount the Donald Sterling factor either: he's the literal case example used in all sports for a cheap owner. Why would he ok giving Kaman a max deal or matching one for him? As for Hinrich, we can dish out Lue or Claxton if need be for a servicable backup point guard. Claxton is not a franchise point guard and frankly isn't even really a starting one. He's best served as a sixth man off the bench in the PG role like he was used in NO/OKC.

If there's anyone that's worth the max or close to it and available its definitely Hinrich and Kaman. Both of them are exactly the kind of young, hungry players that a team like Atlanta needs to have in order to actually start winning. Hinrich is the best point guard leader of a team since Thomas and Kaman could be an easy 16/11 guy for us for years. I don't believe either one of their teams will spend the max or even over 10 million a season for them. They won't match if we signed them so we don't need to trade for them. Wasting our cap space on a guy like Wilcox is the WORST thing we could do. He has done nothing in the NBA except average 14/8 over 28 games. Wow. That's average for a NBA PF/C. Why overpay for mediocre?

Quote: Kaman isn't going anywhere. The Clips love his style, his work ethic, and he is young and learning fast. They match us. That is the issue. Who on the FA list looks like they might not be retained or matched? And would we have to pay thru the nose again to get another FA? What I want is someone paying heavier for AL. Mihm just doesn't do anything to really advance the cause. Wilcox is the best option that I see in the current and available category. The Clips will NOT pay the luxury tax. They won't spend more than 10 million a season to keep him. Both Kaman and Hinrich could easily be luxury tax victims next offseason. Can you imagine both of those guys on our team? Just one of them would be better than wasting our cap space on a guy like Wilcox.

I don't want Mihm or Wilcox or some other fill in the blank third tread center or a guy whose claim to fame is 28 games of averaging 14/8 and wants 60 million a season for it. No thanks. I'd rather give Lo Wright a one year deal and go after Chris Kaman next offseason to bring in a talented young big man whose getting better every season he's been in the league. Failing that, trade Harrington for Camby.

It depends on the bigs but in general yes I agree. Enough of Atlanta every year being the youngest team in the league. We need some kind of proven veteran talent (preferabbly a true honest to god CENTER now) to get past the hump.

Quote: First of all, I think it is CLEAR that Chillz is a better player than Biedrins RIGHT NOW. Biedrins has the POTENTIAL to get better but so far, all he is proven is that he is not good enough to get minutes from Adonal Foyle on a TERRIBLE team. Adonal Foyle was the only Center he had to battle for minutes and yet he played less than 15 mpg last year. And Foyle SUCKS! Foyle averaged 4.5 ppg, 5.5 rbg and 1.6 bpg. Zaza average 11.7 ppg, 7.9 rbg and .5 bpg. Why do you think Biedrins would have gotten more PT behind Zaza (let alone STARTED ahead of him) when he couldn't get minutes behind a lesser player in Foyle? As for Chillz, he had to fight for minutes at SG and SF with JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Al and Salim and he STILL managed to play more than TWICE as many minutes as Biedrins last year. Bottom line, even with what we know now, I wouldn't even CONSIDER trading Chillz straight up for Biedrins. Funny that no GS fan would even CONSIDER trading Biedrins straight up for Chill. Nor do I blame them. GS has to start Foyle to justify the insane contract they gave him. Mullin has to justify playing him to keep his own job. That is the only reason why Biedrins doesn't get more minutes. Go to a GS board and ask the fans there who see the kid play more than we do and they will tell you the same thing.

lol I knew this was going to happen eventually. Everyone was counting on Harrington taking less money "just" to play with Indiana again and this thing has taken so long that now he wants all the money he can get.

I either want Camby or some one year stiff to hopefully get Kaman next offseason.

Quote: Well actually, looking back at the list, i thought there were more on it. He probably doesn't deserve 3rd on that short list. But which 20 games did you watch? I watched about 10 and was very impressed by his overall floor generalship and the way he used his quicknes. He also could get up for rebounds and help with strips and steals. Nobody flat stops other quick PGs anymore due to the hand-check rule. You a Dookie or UNC guy? In college I root for UGA/GT equally. I'm not a fan of either Duke or UNC. I've had several relatives attend Duke but I do not consider myself a Duke fan at all. Why do you ask?

Quote: I watched NOK a few games last year. Paul was a great floor general who was quick enough to hedge on his own man a lot and assist on quick double teams when needed. He was always a threat to steal the ball. He also rebounds very well for his size. As a one-on-one defender he may not be all that special - but he can be an important part of a very good defense. I'd put him middle of the pack for this list. I watched over twenty games of theirs last season simply to see what Paul was doing. He routinely gave up easy baskets, easy looks and was pushed easily out of the paint or the low post by every point guard he was defending. His only saving grace was jumping into a passing lane and trying to get a steal (and more likely than not flubbing it and leaving yet another wide open jump shot since he was out of position) just like Iverson. Each game I watched him I couldn't help but think that as bad as we were last season on defense just how much worse we would be for years with that black hole on defense that would need help every possession to try and contain his man.