Atlantaholic

Gasole is a much better player than JJ. I mean it's not even close. And yeah, a team with Gasole and JJ and a bunch of role players isn't winning s***.

Yeah, JJ averages 18 ppg on 29% from three because he gets doubled. Poor, poor JJ. If all those other hall of famers had gotten doubled they would have all struggled to score 20 points on a consistant basis. :boohoo: I love how all of those Miami fans use that argument while making excuses for Wade.... oh wait, no they don't. That's because Wade put up a PER of 30 against us on a team with Joel Anthony as the second most productive player. People don't understand that the fact you have to EXPLAIN why JJ can't play well is THE reason he isn't a franchise superstar. "boohoo, JJ is playing with a bad hand/knee/finger... Boohoo, JJ gets doubled, Boohoo, JJ doesn't have a supporting cast (which isn't even close to true btw)" Meanwhile Nowitski is about to win a championship with Jason Terry as the second best player on his team and a TORN freaking tendon in his hand. The only thing JJ has in common even remotely with the upper echelon of players is his contract. Every other individual and team statistic that exists shows he is not even in the same galaxy as these guys. All these arguments are such BS it's pretty amazing you guys even believe it. JJ isn't good because he doesn't have enough talent around him??? than how in the hell do you explain his best scoring season coming when we had a 28 win team? He can't be effective because he gets doubled... How do you explain EVERY OTHER superstar in the league who gets doubled, some considerably more aggressively than JJ, still put up superstar numbers. You can't. You won't even address these points you will just continue repeating the same things that are proven to make no sense whatsoever.

Lmfao Yeah, ok. Name me one player in the damn league who wouldn't be contending with TWO freaking perennial All Stars, a Chandler, Marion, and the NBA's best sixth man. Lebron James was contending with non of that. How many perennial all stars is Kobe Bryant playing with? How many Perennial All-Stars has Dirk EVER played with. This is your argument that Joe can be a number 1 guy??? Furthermore, give me ONE perennial All-Star who ISN'T a better palyer than Joe. Please, name me ONE. Unless it's a 34+ year old on the heavy decline in his career like say Ray Allen there is non.

Joe torched Chicago in game 1 because he shot a ridiculous percentage from the outside. The reason he couldn't duplicate that effort was because it was a fluke. Just like his 46% from the outside was. You have 800+ games of 37% shooting from the outside and take a 80 game stretch where he played on a team where he was the third option and virtually stood at the corner the entire game waiting for a wide open shot as some kind of indicator of how good of a shooter he can be. JJ shouldn't even be mentioned in the same novel as Wade not to mention the same post. Number 1 options BEAT double teams my friend. Kobe, Garnett, Lebron, Wade, Durant, have put up MONSTER individual seasons without good PG's, good second scoring options, good centers, good benches etc. etc. etc. Joe has a pretty damn talented supporting cast but he can't manage to have a PER over 16 in the playoffs. His best playoff performance came when he was the third option on a loaded Phoenix team, which should tell you everything you need to know about the guy: If he needs an MVP and a 26 ppg scorer on the team to be able to be efficient in the playoffs, than I'm preeeety sure it is safe to say the guy is not the answer as a number 1 option for our team.

What's wrong with playing zone? I don't get this post, you play zone defense in middle school, high school, college, europe, asia, africa... pretty much in every single format of basketball in the entire world. Who cares if it wasn't used before in the NBA, the three point line wasn't used either, but implementing it has increased the amount of strategy involved in the game, just like zone defense has. I don't get how it is a gimmick either... what is the gimmick exactly? When you play zone defense you still have to play defense. If you want to play zone effectively the amount of effort required is not going to be significantly less than a good man defense. If a team is playing a lazy zone any offensive team worth anything is going to shred it to pieces. What cheapened the game were the old illegal defense rules, which were not even enforced half the time. Zone defense is a legit strategy, just like man to man it has its pros and cons.

Would they consider Josh as a big? If we've given up on Josh and want to trade him I can't think of a better offer than Monta Ellis. Then our next move would be to deal Joe Johnson for a replacement at PF. I would think about it.

So basically, he is as good as Horry (minus every single big shot) and Tim Thomas, who were both pretty bad. Great.

These are some of the worst posts I've ever seen in my life. In career playoff numbers Dirk has the following advantages of Joe Johnson. TS% +.8.7 EFG% + 6.1% ORB % + .3% DRB% 14.5% TRB% 6.9% STL% EVEN BLK % +1.4% TOV% - 2.4% OFFRATING+ 17 DEFRATING - -6 PER + 11 WS/48 min -+ .173 The only thing Joe Johnson does better than Dirk is pass at a 5% higher clip. In every other DEFENSIVE and OFFENSIVE documented category in existence Dirk blows Joe Johnson out of the freaking universe. One thing that baffles me is Joe Johsnon's reputation as a good defender. He is not a significantly better defender than Dirk. They are both average at best, and often worse than average. Watching Joe Johnson defend pick and rolls is embarrassing. At least Dirk's size allows him to swat some shots every now and then.

Borderline first option??? Dirk got criticized for being soft when in reality he is one of the all time most clutch players and one of the all time best playoff performers in the history of the NBA. If Dallas had had a halfway decent post option EVER in their run with Nowitski you would have seen a dyansty. What Dallas was missing wasn't a number 1 option, it was a GREAT number 2 option that just about every single NBA championship team has. Jason Terry was that guy when they made it to the finals in 06, and has been that guy again this season. If Dallas could have gotten a Gasol, or a Ginobli (Not to mention a Shaq or a Wade) they would have been piling up the rings.

Dirk is a top 10-15 player all time. Joe isn't a top 10-15 player in the league today. There is no comparison. Non whatsoever. Dirk's very worst years are better than Joe's best. Joe should be compared to Jason Terry, not Dirk Nowitski. You flip flop those players and the Hawks are playing for a championship right now, while Dallas would have probably missed the playoffs. Blaming Joe's woes on the supporting cast is freaking ridiculous. Did Dirk's numbers suffer when he played with Erick Dampier and a 22 year old Devin Harris at PG? Did Lebron's numbers suffer when he played with a bunch of role players? Did Kobe put up worse numbers in the post Shaq teams that couldn't win 50 games. Of course not, all those guys put up BETTER individual numbers with worse supporting casts. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE #1 GUYS!. Joe is simply not that. Joe has had some great seasons here and there but overall he has shown he can't carry a team. How many games where we winning before Josh and Al started consistently posting PER's in the 20s? yeah, not many. Add in the fact that Joe has been, to put it mildly, less than stellar in the playoffs, (the time when every other great number 1 option's number's should be the strongest). Quick which of these is out of place? 24.9 (Dirk's career Playoff PER) 24.3 (Wade's career Playoff PER) 22.3(Kobe's career Playoff PER) 14.1(JJ's career playoff PER 27( Lebron's career Playoff PER) 19.7 (Derrick Roses' career Playoff PER) 19.6(Carmelo Anthony's career Playoff PER) 23 (Amare Stoudamire's career Playoff PER) 21.7 (Kevin Garnett's career Playoff PER) Only player out of the list to see a drop in PER greater than 2 from his regular season performance to postseason performance is Joe Johson. Joe's a good player.... But not a #1 option... at least not a very good one. Compare this guy to the Jason Terry's and Steve Smith's of the world, not the Lebron's and Nowitski's.

As long as Billy Knight is not our GM

Paul Pierce did put up superstar caliber numbers some years of his career and led the Celtics to the conference finals with a team full of scrubs (joe johnson was on that team as a rookie). His individual numbers suffered when the big three came together but he was a superstar early on in his career. Joe Johnson, sadly, was NEVER on the level of Paul Pierce in his prime. Not even close honestly. Joe is definitely a #2 guy, and this year he was more like a #3 guy. Paul Pierce is a hall of fame lock, and has a shot when it's all said and done to possibly be the leading scorer in Boston Celtic history. He has had five seasons of averaging 25+ points, and a finals MVP to his credit. He may not be a super top tier star, like Lebron, Nowitski, Wade, and Durant, but he is a superstar in my book. (And this coming from a guy who hates Paul Pierce with all his heart)

The saddest part is definitely that it literally took us 13 years after dismantling the Steve Smith squad, to get to a level just below the Steve Smith squad. :suicide:

well during that span he had three games of 50% or better and 10 games of 44% or better. He averaged overall 21.4 points on 41% shooting. That's not bad at all for a rookie

Actually Al horford shot 42% compared to Josh's 40% And 11 ppg and rpg in 39 minutes of playing time is bad. He averaged like 10.4 ppg and 8.8 rpg per 36 minutes (Shelden Williams like numbers), which is not good at all, especially when you consider how inefficient he was. Furthermore, we had Al Horford WIDE OPEN all series long on pick and pops and all he would do is miss or pass the ball back out. He was dreadful. If he had played even remotely like he did in the first half of this year we are a completely different team. Josh Smith was equally as dreadful for most of the series but then actually started giving us some great hustle plays on both ends of the floor the last few games. I wouldn't defend either of those guys with much conviction though, they were both total crap all playoffs long.

We are seriously a hillbilly´s goat hair away from being the Clippers. It is truly depressing.

LOL Worst post in the history of this forum, no offense. Tell that to Dikembe Mutombo Ben Wallace Dennis Rodman Charles Barkely etc. etc. etc. Why don't we suit up a team of 5 sharp shooters then? Could it be, that maybe, just maybe, the game of basketball that requires five different players of different specializations 20 different coaches, and five referees is a bit, (just a bit) more complicated than "Hoop go in hole" Hilarious Your boy Horford had the lowest PER of any of our rotation players in the playoffs btw... and also shot a whopping .019% better than your whipping boy Josh Smith, not to mention he was 2-10 and looked every bit as terrible as Smith jacking up jump shots in the deciding game.

Dude, he had some REALLY impressive stretches with Washington. We get excited over 4 good games by Teague, but Crawford had 4-5 game stretches of 25 points and 5 assists on good shooting. Obviously not a sure thing but I guarantee you Washington fans are ecstatic about the move.

It'll take a bit more than Teague and Josh Smith to get Paul or Williams. As good as he was in the playoffs he still wasn't out of this world, and it was just one series. He is still far from a sure thing going forward.

Jordan is what? 19, 20 years old. He was getting better by the minute up there in Washington. Going forward I'm sure that gap will be shortened

Giving up "he who's name shall not be mentioned" sucked. He is Jamal Crawford, but at 1/8 the price.

He was awesome this series, considering his age and lack of experience it was a very impressive performance. HOWEVER, five good games in a row does not guarantee future success. I do agree with what Larry Drew says in that Teague needs to show this type of mentality from the get go. With Hinrich still on the team it's important for Teague not to feel like he has to defer to the veteran... I do think Larry Drew needs to do a much, much, much better job of giving Teague more responsibility and more minutes in important situations to make sure to ignite the fire we saw in Teague the last few games.

Being an assistant and a head is two very different things. The scrutiny a professional head coach has to undergo is incredible. The guy has had his ups and downs, and he was obivously too easy on some of our players, but perhaps he didn't feel like he had much of a choice. You can be the tough guy coach and bench Josh for taking jumpers but what's to say that wouldn't make Smith sulk and end up demanding a trade? It's tough to manage egos, especially ones as inflated as Josh Smith and the truth is that Josh is a grown *ss man, and there isn't a coach in all the NBA that can FORCE Josh to play the right way. Drew is at least telling our players to play the right way, to share the ball, and he is adapting to situational defensive matchups. I'm not saying he is a great coach, but he is definitely better than any of our other previous first year head coaches. If Lon freaking Kruger, Terry Stotts, and Woodson all got at least two years, no reason Larry Drew shouldn't get them.

It's the man's FIRST season and it's not like Teague was lighting it up during the regular season, the majority of the time the guy looked totally lost, and 99% of this board had given up on him. I'm not saying it was the right move, obviously in retrospect it was the incorrect move... all I'm saying is it is an understandable mistake for a first year head coach to lean on some veterans when your young PG isn't producing in his limited role. Give LD one more year to see if he can learn from his mistakes. Unless we have a clear shot at a super coach like Rick Adleman or Jerry Sloan, no reason to give up on Drew, who at the very least has shown a willingness to make adjustments and learn from his mistakes.

Yeah, pretty much. It's not like this team is a product of carefully planned moves. They basically made a bunch of s*** moves for 10 years and then got an MVP caliber player in the draft, and then lucked out on a coach who got all the scrubs that they had accumulated to play some defense. Not really a blueprint one can follow.