RedDawg#8

worse loss of the decade

lol i know right

I think this team just had an awakening. Sure it was easy to make excuses for the Cleveland losses, but to come out and lose when everybody was expecting them to avenge the clock mistake is a big reflection on this teams make-up from top to bottom. Truth be told, the Hawks coasted in this game from the begginning. The Knicks werent out of it at any point but we played as if we knew we would win. This loss has to smack everybody back down and show them that to be "elite" you have to compete for 48 mins. No more wasted possesions from anybody, maintain focus and do stick to whatever is working in crunch time. Al Horford was killing Lee but didnt get fed the ball at all late in the game, why? Somebody has to be accountable for that. Joe Johnsons the man, sure, but he shouldnt have to carry us when we have one of the most lop-sided post mismatches we will see during the season.

After further research. Bogut is avg. 15 and 10 this year. thats pretty good. I heard he got benched the other night cuz of a lack of effort on defense so I was basing my opinion on that. Do I think he was worth the #1 pick, nope, but he isnt a bust either. My mistake

That Shelden one hurt the most to me. NObody would have taken him at 5 that year. NOBODY but us. When Marvin came out, EVERYbody said he was the 2nd best player in that draft, so to me anyone would have made the same mistake of picking him there. What surprises me the most is that ppl always bring up Marvin as the bust of 2005, but what about Andrew Bogut???? He's not exactly a franchise center an he was the #1 pick in case ppl forgot. He never gets mentioned. To me, scouts screwed up both of those guys stocks that year.

Ending the year 21-10 would also be the same record we had going into 2009 last season---- Thats not good enough for this team imo.

That said, based off our play during back2backs this season, and the quality of opponent, I think we split with them, even if we dont win in the A, i think we will take one no matter what.

Something to watch: SHAQ, he makes cameos every now and then and Id hate for him to show up against us. We can take this Cavs team if Lebron is our only problem, but we have nobody to stop Shaq if he starts feeling young again.

Josh should be cool. Al is looking like the Hulk when angry, taking some pressure off Josh. He is taking way more long jumpers lately than anyone would like, though.

Ive noticed that too, he may not be shooting threes but he is starting to shoot from 1 or 2 steps inside the 3pt line at least 2 or 3 times a game as of late. To me this is the same risk but a lower reward if he shoots 20 foot 2 pointers. I think Josh is telling himself thats its ok to take those shots now as long as they arent behind the line, nobody will ride him. He needs to get back into the paint though, fast.

I guess this makes since. Im reminded of our 2007-08 squad that had no bench and struggled through the year, but was able to push Boston to 7. Why? We had a tight 7-man rotation that didnt allow the likes of Acie, Solo, Jeremy Richardson, and whoever else to see the court come playoff time. Our current starting 5, Chillz and Zaza were really pretty much the only players we used unless it was the 4th quarter of those blowouts in Bos.

Id say his assumption is accurate

I think I found our Achilles heel

Before last year, it was just winning period. Last season it was winning on the road. Well this year im noticing a pattern:

Back to backs!!!

We have played 8 back to backs so far (16 total games). Whether it was the 1st or 2nd game we are 10-6 during b2b's, we are only 5-5 in our last 5 b2b series!!!. and have only won both games twice. We have not lost both games yet. We only have 8 losses on the year, so that means 75% of our losses come during back to backs. It may seem like nit-picking but I think this is a trend we should watch, Our team is still learning to win at a high level and the main goal this year was to win on the road. Well it seems one weakness is finding a way to get energy on nights when we know we have to catch a flight or are tired from the day before. Its somethin worth discussing.

Again: 20-8 overall= .714

10-6 on b2bs= .625

10-2 any other time= .833

5-5 during our last 5b2b's= .500- this worries me because as the season wears on and our legs get heavier and heaviers, this might pick-up, Be on the watch for when we lose our first b2b Series (both games).

I think he's one of the best defensive coaches in the game. Just wish he could find a Tex Winter type to help him run the offense.

You know, I can really agree with that statement, Woody is an awesome defensive coach, I mean he has shown a lot of creativity when it comes to our defense, always trying to maximize our strengths, he didnt start the whole switchin thing until 07-8 i think based off out personnel, He found a akward yet slightly effective way to hide Bibby on defense last year (is it just me or is Bibby actually playing better Defense this year)

The thing is, as creative as he is on the defensive end, he is equally mundane on the offensive end. The reason our offense is so good is because the players have improved the little things like offensive rebounding, passing and taking better shots, Bibby having more chemistry on pick and rolls with Smooth and Al. I see improvement from Woodson but I still see that he has a comfort zone that is tough for him to break and I bet other coaches notice it too.

Woody is doing a good job overall, but is it enough to take us to the top? thats what Sund is trying to figure out before we lock up long term money in Woodson.

i think that the team and Woody both have grown during these years. ppl continuosly say that our record has gotten better each year but I dont give woody all the credit for that. when you consistently add talent to the roster, you better be improving no matter who the coach is. I think Woody is average and there arent many coaches AVAILABLE who could do much better than him. I like that Sund did not extend him yet because Woody needs to prove that he can coach at an elite level. This is the most talented roster we have had in a generation and if we underachieved it would be on the coach. Nobody here would be happy if we gave Woodson a new contract but the team played the same as last season. Its obvious both woody and the team are motivated and that is perfect. If we can keep up this high level of play through the all-star break then I think he should/will get an extension so that we can prepare to head into the playoffs without distraction. in the end, i have more faith in Sunds GM skills rite now than Woodsons coaching, because in their time with the Hawks, Sund has overachieved while Woodson has just been average.

He's not asking who you think has a better chance of making the playoffs... he's asking which team between the two you'd prefer to win it all...

Well, in that case, Hawks in 2009,10,11 etc., Falcons in 2010

Hawks,

for some reason I have found the Hawks more enjoyable to watch this year than the Falcons. I have always been a much bigger Falcons fan though. I want the Falcons to win out and finally get back to back winning seasons but I doubt they can make it to the playoffs let alone make a run once they get there. The Hawks however are at the start of what seems to be becoming a beautiful ride. I feel this team can hang with anybody and I am ready for them to prove all the doubters wrong and knock off the Big 3 in the East come playoff time

lol yal are a trip.

as for the question, I realistically see Horf having a 25% chance of making it. his competition after Dwight is selected is:

Chris Bosh-same reasons as stated before (he may be used as a PF/C)

Brook Lopez- yes his team sucks but like Josh, he has league wide recognition as an up and coming star, thus his USA hoops invite this summer, plus he has the numbers to validate a selection.

Shaq- Good thing the fans dont pick the bench or he would be a shoe in right now, but even still, with the number of votes he does have, the coaches might feel the need to pick him. He definately does not deserve it this year but he has been a lock for the game every year since forever and the coaches may be tempted to stay with the norm.

If the coaches pick on the basis of who is the the best remaining center on the best remaining team in the East after Dwight Howard, then Horfords the pick. If they decide on who is the 2nd best overall center in the East then Lopez is the pick. If they choose by who is the best player who can play mins center then its Bosh, if its who do the fans want to watch the most its Shaq.

Based off of record alone the Grizzlies would be 9th in the East, not taking into account that they would play less competitive teams more often so yeah, they could realistically be a playoff team in the East. That said, I hope the Hawks handle their business, I cant stand watching us lose to inferior teams, and at home there is no excuse at all

I have no problem with that if thats the case. What I take issue with is the way he states it, he suggests that EVERY player will be held to that standard when in fact they arent. Id prefer him to just come out and say "Joe, Bibby and Craw are vets and I will allow them more lee-way. Guys like Teague and Morris will have to prove themsleves to me each night".

I dont like when a coach says one thing and does another, id rather him be real and admit to what we already notice night in and night out.

Is it just me or does Woodson's theory sound like ish bull??? I read it again today in an ajc article about Morris and I just keep thinking, "why doesnt this apply to everybody?" then I answered my question with,"because it cant, sometimes players are off and you have to let them play throught it." prime example: JJ and Craw can do no wrong to Woody

What if rookie Lebron or more realistically Branden Jennings was on this team now coming off the bench behind somebody, and for every mistake he made he was pulled out the game??? the answer, you will never know what a player can do unless you let him play. Now, we have seen the bench a lot more as of late, and I think its great but I think its more to do with the score and quality of opponent than pure trust.

Its not easy to give every player minutes, but thats why you make all that money as an NBA coach, to manage minutes, DEVELOP TALENT, and ensure that every player is giving their all every minute they are playing and not just the younger ones on the bench. Boy, I really cant wait to see the day when Woody yell's at JJ for poor play, but it will probably never come.

Again, I do see that the bench has played more as of late, but can he keep it up for the rest of the year?

Thats real, but when I looked back my message did seem kind of apologetic so I tried to be as objective as possible

No excuses, just observation. I will be completely honest, the more and more I watch, I am beggining to think that his most effective position is at PF, and on this team that would mean backup PF. His shooting ability is average for a SF but would be a deadly weapon for a PF. His athleticsm and rebounding arent as effective far away from the basket, but would be better served in the post.

During training camp, in most of the pics he was always working with the wing players, working on shooting from the perimeter, etc. His position calls for this but his body type is that of a player that also needs to work in the post, which I rarely saw him do. I believe this is by design and not his own doing, but still for a guy who is the same height and weight as our starting PF to be looked at just a shooter really under-utilizes his stregnths. In complete bluntness we start 3 PF's together in Horf, Smoove and Marv, and the one furthest from the hoop is the one who happens to be the least effective, go figure.

Starting SF's on teams with a star ball handling 2:

Lakers-Lamar Odom(30mpg)- 8.3ppg, 8.1reb

Heat-Quentin Richardson(28mpg)-8 ppg, 4 reb

Blazers-Martell Webster(23mpg)- 8.4ppg, 3.2 reb/ Travis Outlaw(21mpg)- 9.9 ppg, 3.4 reb

Sixers-Thad Young(37mpg)- 15.5ppg, 4.9reb

Kings-Fransico Garcia(26mpg)-11.4ppg, 4reb

Magic-Michael Peitrus(28mpg)-10.1ppg, 3.1reb

Starting SG's on teams with a star ball handling 3:

Cavs-Anthony Parker(29mpg)-7.6ppg, 2.8reb

Nuggets-Arron Afflalo(24mpg)- 8.2ppg, 2.7reb

Pacers-Brandon Rush(27mpg)- 7.3ppg, 4.4reb

Thunder-Thabo Sefolosha(32mpg)- 6ppg, 5.6reb

These stats reflect how innefective players can be when having to play off the ball on the perimeter with a swingman who dominates the ball outside and inside. Basically, Marvin is on par with the other starting SF's on those teams who run their offense through SG's like Joe

Mo played great, I have always thought he was being under-valued this season. that said, just like Mo had 1 GREAT game and finshed with 22 and 9, Marv had 1 great game before too and finished 29 and 9.

Marv is clearly not as consitent as the rest of our starters, which has led to his decrease in minutes, but the rare times when he is on, he can still drop 30 against a good team. Mo had a lights out night, was perfect from 3pt, and got you 20 against the worse team in the NBA. I dont think that we should look at this one game to indicate why Mo should start. When we play a Cle, Den, or somebody with a dominating 6-8+ SF, i dont want to see Mo out there getting pushed around.

I am also begginning to notice trends with Marv:

the more scorers we have on this team, the less aggressive he becomes. We all know that our offense dominated by ISO players (gaurds) and everyone else is just supposed to "play within the game" and get theirs. Well Marv knows he isnt as good an ISO player as Joe and Craw so he will defer, but its also harder for him to get his when Josh and Horf are under the hoop cleaning up after JJ and Craw. As for his athleticism, Josh has assumed autority as the "finisher" on fast breaks, so again, he defers despite having similar finishing ability.

He stands outside the arc so much because our starting SG plays more of a SF role by ISO-ing inside the arc the majoirty of the time, which leaves Marvin on the outside.

Despite being 5th on the team in scoring and Minutes, he is still 3rd in 3PT %, Rebs, and Blks and is 4th in FT attempts

Honestly, if Marv decided to move around inside more, that would clog the lane with Horf and Smoove already there, limiting Joes effectiveness. By spacing the court, that allows our playmaker to move in and out and find open shooters, or his own shot. On most teams with "superstar" swingmen who dominate the ball, the pg and sg or sf stand on the outside waiting for the 3-ball and let the ball-handler work. there is no reason for 4 guys to be in the post before a shot goes up.

Regardless, Marv has already been punished for his inconsistent/non-aggresive play by his reduced PT.

Just did the research.

ATL, BOS, CLE, and ORL each play one another 4 times

each plays the West teams twice of course.=30 games

each plays 6 teams in our conference 4 times= 24 games

each plays 4 teams 3 times= 12 games

each plays teams in own division 4 times (2 home 2 away)= 16 games

Division records (without Bos, Cle, Atl, or Orl)

SE division record: 27-35, .435

Atlantic record: 25-69, .265

Central record: 35-49, .416

of the 4 non- division teams that each only plays 3 times:

ATL: Ind, Mil, NJ, Phi = 24-63, .275

ORL: Chi, Mil, NJ, NY = 28-60, .318

BOS: Cha, Ind, Mia, Det = 37-47, .440

CLE: Mia, NY, Phi, Was = 31-56, .356

of the other non-division teams that each will play 4 times (excluding atl, bos, cle, and orl):

ATL: Chi, Det, NY, Tor = 36-55, .395

ORL: Det, Ind, Phi, Tor = 32-58, .355

BOS: Chi, Mil, Was = 25-37, .403

CLE: Cha, Chi, NJ, = 20-46, .303

Total record and winning percentage of conference schedule (projected according to number of meetings):

ATL: 324-549 = .371

ORL: 320-552 = .366

BOS: 311-565,= .355

CLE: 313-548 = .363

Analysis:

Our divison even after taking away the Hawks and Magic records still has a higher winning percentage than the others without Bos or Cle. While Boston has a slightly stronger non-division schedule, they play less games against the stronger teams, we play less game against weaker teams, meaning we dont have the oppurtunity to pick up as many "cheap wins" as they do. What all this means is that Atlanta has the toughest remaining schedule, the Celtics have the weakest. This does not include games in which "the big 4" play one another since they all will see each other 4 times. This also doesnt include the west teams since each see's them twice, therefore the west record would be the same for all 4 teams in the end

Oh, well nevermind. I thought we were doing something unique lol. Either way, the rest of the Easts "elite" have much easier roads to the playoffs than us and Orlando as no only do we face each other numerous times, we still face our division more than anybody else. I think top to bottom we have the 2 best teams in the East, but it may not show record wise in the end as we will have beat up on each other throughout the year in the southeast.

I agree that Orlando is a bad matchup for us and if we can avoid them atleast until the EC Finals we will be okay. I think as long we can get the 2 or 3 seed we will be fine assuming they get the 1 seed. I honestly think the Magic are the best team in the East, but they will face a much tougher schedule against division rivals than the Celtics who are in perhaps the weakest division in the East. Boston will pick up alot more easy wins against NJ, NY, TOR and PHI than us and the Magic who will face very competitve teams in CHA, MIA, and WAS as well as each other

Its worth noting that according to both the actual standings as they are now, and your power rankings, the Southeast division would have 4 of their 5 teams (4/8 overall) in the playoffs. The Wizards arent that far off either.

Thats really saying something about the talent in the southeast, I dont think 1 division alone has fielded half of their conferences playoff bracket since they expanded and re-did them as they are now.

I really hope like most of you that we are not about to repeat last years pattern: Start the season off very hot, play .500 basketball for the majority of the seson, and rely on a good stretch of games to finish out.

Our next 8 games up until Christmas are very light and we SHOULD go atleast 6-2 during this stretch. If we play to our potential and play consistent we could go 8-0. Any ways, on Christmas eve we SHOULD be somewhere between 20-8 and 22-6

Chicago: 7-11

@Toronto: 9-13

New Jersey: 1-19

Memphis: 8-12

Utah: 11-8

@Chicago: 7-11

@Minnesota: 3-17

@Denver: 15-5

Only 2 teams have winning records. Utah is very beatable esp. when they are on the road. Denver will be a tough game as it as a back to back and they will be looking for revenge. We cannot continue to lose to inferior teams whether on the road or at home. This Atlanta Hawks team is better than all of those teams except maybe Denver and we are not far apart if at all.

I predict 7-1, 21-7 overall

I definately think there is room for Horford. Remember last year there was only 1 center in the All-star game. I know the All-star game isnt for real but the East were destroyed because they couldnt match up to all the centers on the West squad after Dwight sat for the night. I think the coaches will try to make an effort to send at least one more center this for the East to atleast field 2 full squads position wise.

I just looked at the stats and there isnt another center on a winning team in the East that compares to Horf and Howard across the board. Lopez has very good stats, but the Nets are atrocious.