RedDawg#8

its annoying because the few times we run set plays, it usually leads to good things. prime example, at the end of close games when we draw up an inbounds play, if the shot doesnt fall there usually players in position for rebounds and putbacks because everybody on the floor knows where the ball is and where its going. we rely too much on one player free-styling and the other players dont know whats about to happen with the ball so those possesions become wasted if the iso player isnt succesful. we have the talent and shooters to design plays to get guys open and knock down shots, we just lack the imagination/effort from the staff

my personal beef came with the very 1st substition of the game. Joe 0-3 from the field and Marvin was 2-2 with a 3-pointer and had just got a blocked shot and then he gets yanked for Crawford. A little later in the 2nd quarter, Evans was in and had made 2 good defensive plays back to back, but got taken out right after for Joe I think. It was Woodson who claims that a players performance will dictate his playing time but he doesnt stick to it at all.

Marv has had a slow start this season, why as a head coach would you pull him that early after he opened hitting his first couple of shots and was competing on the defensive end, at the same time making our frontline smaller when we are getting beat on the glass. DOESNT MAKE SENSE

Mo has been a ghost but plays hard on the defensive end everytime he's on the court, why would you take him out the game when we are down and he is making impact plays on D thats putting us in position to make a quicker comeback. He comes out, eventually the Pistons go on a 10 pt run. DOESNT MAKE SENSE

How does a player get 43 minutes, despite missing 14 of 19 shots, not getting to the FT line, no steals or blocks, only 2 rebounds, 3 assists? Thats not earning ones playing time, thats being given minutes, something Woody claimed he would not do this year. Its not fair to the other players on the team who are actually playing hard and today CONTRIBUTING to be sitting on the bench and watch that kind of performance from a teamate because he "makes us better" when hes on the court. No, he makes us better when his shot is falling. When its not, he's no better than a Teague or Marvin or anybody else whose minutes he is taking away.

Its hypocritical that Woodson constantly says players "earn" their time when clearly Joe doesnt. He is still getting minutes based off of Woody's fear to trust somebody else on the roster. Since we have been winning, nobody wants to complain but as it stands, Joes minutes are steadily increasing again, and the bench's minutes are disappearing. Mo Evans hasnt even gotten much burn lately. Say what you want but giving Joe 40+ mins to FIND his jumpshot doesnt help us. Not with the potential scorers we have. When Joe has off nights, he shouldnt be finishing with over 40 mins. Let somebody else come in a try to give us a spark. Let Joe see the team from the side-line, maybe it'll help him mentally. I dont think Joe is either that good of a player or that important to us winning every game that we have to keep him on the court just so he can finish with double digits.

Woody has a bad habit of falling in love with certain players to the point that when they are off, he has NO plan B. Thats why you consistently find time for your bench guys, because they are talened NBA players as well. Teague is young tho, and needs to build confidence first, that comes from the coach. Ima start calling Woody the PG killer if he manages to ruin Teague. This kid was BALLING in the preseason. Finished with a poor game against ORL, and opened the season getting the shaft. Even when he has played well, Woody has not allowed him to build any kind of momentum. Im sorry but this isnt the NFL. A player cant just come in and dominate simply because he has fresh legs. You have to let players get into a rythym. JJ starts many games cold but Woody allows him to linger on the court until his shot falls and he is an All-star and been in the league for years. Its not smart or fair to expect a ROOKIE to come off the bench and shoot lights-out on his jumpers when he hast touched the ball since pre-game warm ups.

Woody's logic doesnt make since. If Teague was a 6-year vet then yeah maybe, but you have to be pro-active with your young players, help them grow, help to develop their raw skills into an NBA player.

Clearly some of you guys just became Hawks fans. We haven't had an offense since Woody came to Atlanta. It's always ISO Joe, ISO Joe, and then maybe a Smoove lob play thrown in after a timeout.

Bibby, while it has been insinuated in the past but never shown to be the actual case, runs our offense. With him, we at least have a semblance of movement, passing, and hence, easy baskets. Without him, what did you see? ISO Joe, ISO Crawford, ISO Joe...

Woody is still a joke. I am very happy with our start this year, but Woody is still a below average coach.

Naw man, I been a fan since Dion Glover and Shareef were here. I never thought Woodson was a good offensive coach, and Im usually shaking my head at alot of the things he does, I simply was trying to stay on topic and not turn it into a bash Woodson issue.

But honestly I feel like Teague has all the skills to do what it takes to make our offense succesful, he just isnt being utilized correctly. With his blazing speed, Teague should come in and dominate the ball, drive and kick out to Joe or Craw. But the the confidence from his teamates and coach that he recieved during the pre-season has evaporated., mainly because of poor planning. If he had been given a steady diet of minutes, even in mop up time, he wouldnt be so erratic coming in games. As it looks, we will have wasted another pick because our staff does not know how to utilize a young pg. Thats why I continue to say we have no use for a true pg, because on this team, if the pg cant consistently hit a 3, he wont get any love from Woody.

Im sorry, but yal are giving Bibby too much cred, and our team too much slack.

Hopefully Woody was just caught with his pants down tonite and will gameplan better next game, but sheesh,

New Orleans lost the best PG in the NBA and is playing BETTER, we can/should be able to make do without Bibby. I dare somebody to argue that Bibby is more valuable to us than Chris Paul is to the Hornets. He is literally all they have. Bibby isnt even our All-Star, we shouldnt self-destruct because he isnt in the game. Our roster without Bibby is better than NO's without Paul.

New Orleans takes away that excuse from us. Chris Paul is All-World and they are surviving. Bibby is cool and all but.... i think you get my point

Man f- that. if we dont have Bibby, its Teague's job to lose. he IS our backup pg. Woody cant be afraid to stick with him. If Woody knew how to run an offense that wasnt wast 100 % dependant on gaurds scoring to be succesful, then it wouldnt matter.

I know we are all very excited about our Hawks, but I have been thinking of a pattern since before the season that seems like its going to continue. 2 years ago we were the 8th seed, last year we cut that in half as the 4th seed with 1st round homcourt advantage.

Well if this natural progression continues, when all the dust clears I think we should realistically strive to capture the 2 seed this year, which would also ensure home court advantage for the 2nd round.

Next year hopefully we can get the 1 seed and homecourt in the 1st 3 rounds, then the year after the we get the NBA's best record and homecourt throughout..etc

Again thats:

08: 8th seed, 1st rd elimination

09: 4th seed, 2nd rd elimination

10: 2nd seed, 3rd rd elimination

11: 1st seed, elimination in Finals

12: 1st seed, Finals winners, NBA Champs!!!

Now if we so happen to skip some of these steps along the way then im all for it as well

I dont wanna nit-pick but it sounds like they are going into this game too worried and will again come out tight or flat. They have to try to stay loose. Yeah respect Boston and all, but convince yourself that that you can beat them, perfect play or not. I dont like that statement about "we have to play a perfect game" because when the first hiccup comes, you already lose confidence. Boston is good but they do have a lost which means they arent perfect and can be beaten. Im tired of seeing other teams get a win on them but we kiss their a$$ to the point that we dont play to our own abilities. Lets play OUR game for a change, make those old Bastards run up and down the court til their legs fall off.

Well guys its official, I just called my director and told him I wasnt gonna make it tonight because my car broke down 30 miles away. I go to school in Nashville and never get to watch us play so I was not gonna miss this game no matter what. All I know is we had better WIN or at least keep it close until the very end or Im gonna be very upset I had to lie to watch the game.

C'mon Hawks, make it worth my while!!!!

If we lose Joe, who would we most likely bring in to replace him, if anybody?

I dont want to rely on Craw and without Joe we dont have any true Swingman on this roster, Evans doesnt count to me. we would need to bring in a player from 6'6 to 6'8 that is a fringe all-star at the least to replace Joe.

I hate games like this. I get super hyped that we will come and handle our business or upset but then we come out the gates slow, with no emotion and get down by 20 and cant catch up. I then have to try and get moral victory out of how close we can make the score before the game is over all the while having to listen to the announcers give praise to the other team and their coach and talk about how good we WERE before the game, but how we werent enough for so and so who is a contender.

I plan on skipping my practice to see this game and I dont want to be dissappointed with a lack of heart/effort and playing scared, I want us to run, jump and play our game so I can for once enjoy the rare oppurtunity I get to watch my team on TV.

You had a dream about Omri Casspi? Seriously? LOL

lol i think it was because I had just read some article on him and his competiveness and how much his coach liked him and I thought it was pretty cool, esp. with him being the first Israeli player in the NBA. I dunno, its hard to explain. I think the whole message was that we Crawford away for scraps, and the team started falling apart shortly after.

LOL you know you're a true Hawks fan when you have dreams about them. Welcome, it happens to me all the time

Yeah, I dont go a single day without thinking about our team and what we do well, what we can do better, or what we can achieve etc. I used to be this way about the Falcons but not so much anymore, I still love them but im not as "IN" to them as I once was, im on here way more than their MB nowadays

More like a nightmare, we traded him for Omri Casspi and 2 unknown euro players that were probably projects. I dreamed that I came on here and we were all angry wondering how our front office could do this to us...then I woke up and laughed.

I know its early but has Crawford become THAT important to our team already? I mean I love the confidence going into every game knowing we have him comin off the bench for us waiting to light a team up.

Oh I agree 100% that we need to switch it up at times and fight through screens rather than switching everything. We actually do that sometimes and in certain situations. We also go to a zone D on occasion.

Cosign, I like swithcing better with guys who can caurd multiple positions on the court ie: Jamal and Evans, but no so much with Bibby because he cant gaurd anybody effectively man to man unless he decides to fight thru screens against point guards, but at 6-2 and not long or very fast when he ends up on anybody else its a nightmare unless they give up the ball before trying to attack him, I prefer our forwards using their length in passing lanes in a zone, and our high IQ but low energy gaurds not havin to run all over the place.

I wonder the same thing. when Chilldress was here it made much more sense cuz when he was in the line up at pg we had a line-up 1-5 of 6'8-6'10 players who were good defenders, quick and long. not anymore now, with Bibby and shorter guys like Evans and Craw coming off the bench we arent as long thus our original intention of 5 guys being able to defend every position doesnt exist anymore. we also dont have 5 strong individual defenders so we cant run a straight up man to man. its painful watchin teams shred our defense by constantly making us switch until a wide open shooter is left, or a lane opens up, or a mis-match is created.

we are better off running a zone defense, with Smith on the interior of Bibbys side. thus we turn a weakness into a strength as Smoove is an awesome help defender and everytime Bibby gets beat he will have an oppurtunity to get a block. our current roster is not built for the defense we run, and it seems like Woody's tryna hold on to it because when we had the players it made him look smart as a coach when it was succesful, but now it only further exposes his lack of adjustment and ability to scheme to his players strengths, it is perhaps the laziest defensive "scheme" in the NBA. Its no longer effective for us.

Its up to the coach to use good judgment on a game to game basis, if a player is hot, play him, if not, then go to another option. With JJ, or anybody else who may be that hot, leave them in the game and keep the pressure on the other team, dont give them a break by taking him out while he is far from being gased. (JJ wasnt gonna stay hot forever, and when he stopped, he could have still been rested for significant time. I think Woody assumed JJ was gonna be able o turn it rite back on when he brought him back but thats not the case with Joe, he has to shoot when he's hot cuz he not able to turn it on or off his self.)

With that said, Teague's and any other bench player's minutes should be the givin the same way. If a starter hasnt been producing and Craw or Mo or Teague are doing well, leave them in until they cool off. If Teague gives 25 mins of lights out play while Bibby sits, so be it, if he isnt doing anything let Bibby get his time in, its that simple to me.

The Lakers were a lottery team after Shaq left town, it took what 5-6 seasons to climb back to a championship level, that with them being the Yankees of basketball

so yes, they had to wak first too.

Bos bought a championshi teamp, we are trying to grow one

but yeah, I jus saw how we got dominated in the 3rd but atleast we fought back.... a little. Heck, I had a good day so its hard for me to upset about this loss right now, sorry guys.

I know this is random but I go to school in Nashville and was at the Titans game today and even tho they were 0-6, their stadium seemed packed at least 85-90 %, much more than the Dome or Phillips would be if the Hawks/Falcons started their sesons winless, and the fans were great.

My point being, why are we acting like the sky is falling??? Why are we giving up on our team because they got beat by a better team??? I want us to be world-champs just as bad as the next guy, and the thing is, I can still see that potential in this team. Its too early to jump-ship on these guys. They went winless against Boston in the reg. season before pushing them to 7 in the playoffs. We cant let ourselves over react during roller coaster ride of this 82 game reg season. We ultimately are waiting for the playoffs to judge whether we improved or not, and this team still looks strong enough to compete for a top spot and compete in the 2nd round so why are we buggin so hard so SOON???

You can tell this team has come a long way when we are arguing about an 8 point Road loss against the World Champs and the greatest player in the NBA post-Jordan era.

Unfortunately I didnt get to watch the game so I cant comment on effort and heart and things like that, but after the way the Lakers lost their previous game at home, I figured we'd be a long shot to win this no matter what, they are the better team on any day but they were esp motivated coming in to this game, had they not lost the other day, I coulda saw us pull this one out but they simply were not gonna let themselves lose back to back games at home, Im just glad they didnt get blown out, and it actually looks like a close game (on paper).

What forward would you bring in to play SF and allow Mo to slide to the 2 if the goal is to rest the starters? Mo is our only capable backup SF unless you're ready to give minutes to Othello Hunter and he's only borderline capable of playing SF.

I was thinking he coulda put Marv back in, i wasnt sure if he was already in at PF tho, in which case bring Joe Smith in to slide Marv down to the SF.

Im not saying we couldnt have brought in a starter, but that I'd rather that starter be Marv, Josh or Al, instead of Joe to close out the 3rd. Preferably Marv since he was having a quietly productive night.

The whole point being lets not use Joe during the moments when we dont absolutely need him and there are other optins to go with. Like I said its nit-picking but seconds add up to minutes which also add up.

If players dont get the time now to try to hold their own w/o Joe then they will never build up the confidence to. Woody really has to push himself to pay attention to Joe and the other starters minutes this season. It will be uncomfortable at first but hes got to just sit through the frustrations and let the TEAM grow now not just the starting unit.

Or he is just a man with nothing else to lose, has already been convicted so why not just tell the whole story since he doesnt have to worry about protecting his own reputation anymore.

Sort of like Mike Vick and dogfighting, and how now he helps the cops stop dogfighting and told who he was working with etc...

Before they get caught, you never hear a peep because even if they know its wrong, they cant do anything about it without going down too, but once they are caught, its liberating because now everything comes out.

It all seems very possible. Of course to us on the outside, we are not going to notice things like this, esp since it has been going on so long that we expect to see a few questionable calls every night. This is how they got away with it for so long, the whole "Its not easy being a ref, theres so much going on that they cant see everything, they are doing a good job". I mean seriously, we could tell that calls would go against us so often during our poor years, they probably had huge money against us most nights. Either way, since there really isnt a system of checks and balances in place between teams and refs, they can get away with missed or phantom calls.

I think that not only should refs get evaluated by comitee's, players, coaches, and owners should evaluate them too. They shouldnt be exempt from accountability where-as players are treated like elementary school kids. I think twice during the season, teams should be able to give input on how the refs carry themselves, explain their calls, and show unbiased treatment during games, and if they dont get good feedback, then some disciplinary action is in order. after the all star break, low scores get a warning and probationary (close watch) period until the end of the regular season. Shadey refs shouldnt be allowed to call playoff games

Lol thats funny and true. I think he could have ran the risk of playing Craw or at least bringing in Mo, or if Mo was in the game already, put in a forward to let Mo slide over to the 2. Since we dont have Rio, Mo needs to be our utility swingman in that situation, we werent forced to use JJ then, it just seems like an old habit for Woody to look at his bench and if JJ is on it then find a way to put him back in the game.

Woody has to learn to not depend on Joe, trust the bench to close out the quarter and start up the 4th. Sure, he can handle it now but its the very beggining of the season with 81 more games left. I know it all worked out but in the future I would love to have a fresh Joe come in after the first break of the 4th and go full steam ahead from that point on.

The only issue I would take with Woodson is why Joe was in for the last minute with the team up by 12.

Yeah and also I think it was either the end of the 1st or 3rd quarter and it was under 2 minutes left and there was a stopage of play and he put Joe back in the game, it may seem like nit-picking but minutes add up over time, its the difference of him playing 39 mins tonite when it coulda been 36 and sum change. I know that the game was close but joe doesnt need to be in the game to finish 1st and 3rd quarters, just 2nd and 4th's (only in a close game). When he pulled Bibby and Horford, I was curious why he couldnt just take Joe out too, it almost makes me think he wanted JJ to take that 3 to pad his stats a little (to make the all-star game of course)

I think we have the ability to drive....but what about being able to establish a post presence. We will be able to go to the post and expect to come away with points, or will we simply pass back out to an open 3-point shooter even if we are ice-cold. In the past we have done just that, not jus against ORL. Can we feed Al and Josh and Zaza the ball down low and EXPECT to score?