Crank

That was the team the Bulls ended the season with after trading jalen Rose for Davis and Williams and Chandler missed almost the entire year with some injury and Scott Skiles took over after the season started Jamal Crawford Eddy Curry Jannero Pargo Kirk Hinrich Kendall Gill Antonio Davis Marcus Fizer Eddie Robinson Jerome Williams Ronald Dupree Tyson Chandler Scottie Pippen Linton Johnson III Chris Jefferies Rick Brunson and after Crawford left this was the team Eddy Curry Kirk Hinrich Ben Gordon Luol Deng Andres Nocioni Tyson Chandler Othella Harrington Antonio Davis Jannero Pargo Chris Duhon Eric Piatkowski Lawrence Funderburke Adreian Griffin Jared Reiner Frank Williams cmon lol they got rid of Crawford has Skiles coaching for a full training camp an older Hinrich ,and both Curry and Chandler were healthy the most of the year . Do you really think they got better because they signed and traded Crawford to the knicks 2. NY - The Knicks made the playoffs in 03-04. The didn't make it in 04-05 after acquiring Crawford. The knicks had Allan Houston before Crawford arrived didnt they ?and that was basically the last time he was healthy. They didnt bring Crawford in to start he was gonna be the 3rd guard but Houston basically never played again . Do you really think after hearing everythings that went on with the kniucks that Crawford was the reason they didnt make the playoffs ? How come you decide to use reasoning and include a why the warriors didnt make the playoffs but then dont mention how essentially the Warriors other top 5 players all missed significant time and Crawford didnt even have a training camp with the team . Cmon :) The Bulls upgraded the overall coaching and talent level of the team .Thats like someone saying Al Jefferson was holding down Boston because after he left the Celts won a title nevermind they added multiple good players The knicks wouldve been bad whether Crawford had joined or not as behind Allan Houston they had Shandon Anderson and Penny Hardaway. The Warriors shouldnt even be considered because he was traded after the season started to a team who was already below .500 and the other top players were either out or missing a bunch of time with injuries I dont think hes unlucky or overrated I just know hes not a franchise player and if I understand that then I know hes not to blame for those teams not being better because when I think about who was considered the best players on those teams that tells me all I needed to know about why they didnt succeed .

Well I think Sund in his interview said it best . Crawford and there are other around the league as well can help a winning team but are not good enough to take a bad team from bad to good . .There are very players in the league that can do that and they are all franchise players. Do you think Crawford as a player is good enough to overcome whatever Marbury /Isiah had going on in Ny ? Have you seen the Marbury video streams ? hes crazy . :) We could take Joe and put him on those teams and I dont think the outcome wouldnt have been much different.

I agree with both Traceman and Diesel . Crawford is much better than Flip they are just a different level of players however Ive said all along hes a luxury that we can afford to bring along off the bench because hes going to get his minutes . Then come playoff time we can determine if he helps us more in the starting lineup or continue to bring him off the bench . I hope we can continue to use him off the bench because that would mean that Marvin has taken another step in his development and thats good as well. NineOhTheRino - Crawford is considered one of the better 4th quarter players in the league and has 11 game winning shots according to 82games . I think he will make that entire second unit better but we need a pick and roll/pop big like Joe smith to come off that bench as well.

Unless Al and Smoove become better at screening and take an active interest into expanding that part of their games exactly what system can we run besides iso-Joe ? Big men really dictate how intricate an offense you can actually run. To be honest if I was Woody I would get both in town and we would watch the every pick and roll ran by the David Lee last year as Mike D'antoni had that guy looking like a scoring machine even though he had no post moves . The ability to pick and move got him at least 10 easy points a game .

John Salmons did average 18 points but hes never been the #1 option on a team . He played behind K-Mart and then Ben Gordon and now he has no one to play behind .If Salmons and Deng are supposed to carry them offensively they are in trouble .

actually I saw that myself and thought it was strange and then I read that he wouldnt have played in any of those games because of a injured groin muscle but only played because Stephen jackson and Corey maggette were already missing from those games . He played in the Orlando game but then missed the following games against the Heat and Boston as the warriors from looking at their schedule was in the mdist of a 5 game east coast road trip.

good post but here is the problem . Flip was given a small specific role off the bench where as Crawford was given a role similar to JJ's on almost every teams hes played for . That is why the use of stats bothers me so much sometimes . When you have you have the coach saying we need to you to generate offense even if you are having an off night . Do we really think that Don Nelson was focused on Crawfords efficiency when Stephen Jackson,Monta Ellis ,and Corey Maggette missed so many games last year ? Was he saying ok jamal you missed your last two shots lets get Ronnie Turiaf more looks as his TS is higher ? Ive been trying to get as much info on Crawford as could and the one thing that stood out to me was looking at his numbers with the knicks before he was sent to Golden State . With the Warriors his TS was 54% while with the knicks it was 57% playing in Mike D'antonis system that emphasized finding the open man and taking and making the open shot. with the knicks 52% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 54% With the Warriors 39% of his jumpshots were assisted and his efg% was 44% Its only a small sample but I would say that how well Crawford does is entirely up to how Woody and what demands he makes upon Crawford and the team right from the start.

Crawford COULD start and be great for us but he should come off the bench and be a all star for us . Thats right I said it ALL STAR. We really get to control the matchups and force teams to adjust to us . We get to choose who we bring him in against and when he does come in we know he will be respected . I think his percentages will go up and he will win the 6th man of the year and make the all star team . The beauty of it is we can bring him in for Joe or to play next to Joe depending on the game situation.As Ive said before the best thing about this is that Crawford demands the attention of a good defender . You cant hide your pg on him like with Mike and we know Joe will get the teams best defender so this will force teams to choose which will funnel plenty of good shots to Marvin,Smoove, and AL. 50 pts in the nba EASY ? lol seriously The one thing about Crawford scoring 50 points that no one ever mentions is that TWO of the three games were on the ROAD. I dont care who does it but it is in no way easy to walk into an opposing teams gym and drop 50. Lets not forget also that they have Gerald Wallace and Raja bell on that team as well and you see in the clips where some of everyone was on this guy . They were also one of the best defensive teams so he deserves his props . We dont need him to do this all the time to win games and thats why he will help us. Some games he will come in and will need to keep the ball moving and some games we will need a spark offensively. Our situation unlike his previous teams is that he is a luxury of our success not a necessity to it and I think he understand that and will be used accordingly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjulTveN6Ts

Shaqs presence will change things because when the Cavs ran that screen and roll teams would play Big Z for that jump shot and Big Ben and Varejao for crashing the boards . Teams are gonna collapse hard now and just concede the outside shots and after how Mo Wiliams fell apart Im not sure he will even be the same player . I think people are overlooking the fact that the Cavs who last year some say went overboard with their celebrating throughout the season basically got slapped in the mouth by the Magic and they folded . Having Lebron always makes them a threat but if its a lame duck team this year with them not knowing whether Lebron will be back and they get off to a slow start that team could very easily fall completely apart and weve seen how Lebron handles adversity he could pack it in midseason. This is where we find out what type of player Lebron really is .

They all are vulnerable because its simply very difficult to play at the level that each one of these teams have played at at one time or another over the past 3 seasons . Orl- they picked up VC but he hasnt been motivated in years and had his own big three and couldnt get it done even in the watered down east . He is certainly more proven than Hedo but Hedo also didnt care whether or not he got 10 shots or 20 shots . Also Hedo was the defacto pg on that most of the time and there is no way aIl want VC with the ball at the top of the key with 20 seconds on the clock .It will either be a big splash or a total blow up with him. Boston is just old and while they will try and squeeze every drop out of the big three that they can these guys have basically gotten fed and are gonna ride the one title off into the sunset . Clevland just go so slow that I dont even know what to say really. They should just let Shaq sit out the regular season and show up for the playoffs Shaq in the lane equals more jumpshots for Lebron and the rest of the league thanks Shaq. The Cavs just dont have that #2 guy on the perimeter .

Im gonna say that some of these guys are overrated to the degree of how the nba markets them but not to their play on the court .They are good ballers but the nba likes top push several of these guys hard .

Pretty dumb system to me because who is actually rating these guys high to begin with ? Where are they ranked so high at that after analyzing them they would be overrated . Its basically a stat whores holy grail. There have always been volume scorers and there always will be . No one on that lists is considered a #1 guy and most are borderline #2 guys and #3's so how are they overrated unless the guy calculating the stats somehow envisions a nba where there are no middle man and the talent pool goes from bench riding role players straight to #1 franchise players with no other talent in between.

I dont play Xbox but I do watch a lot of real basketball games and why are you talking about the Phoenx ? So what JJ has never averaged over 5 boards a game weve never asked him to focus on that from the sf position either . The SF position will take him closer to the basket and we can ask him to take over a point forward role at times as well. I find it hysterical that you think that Marvins 2+ rebounds saves the day when Marvin missed how many games last year ? Oh how did we ever rebound without him ? You dont think JJ could get two more rebounds per game if that was that task asked of him this year .but the reality is that Josh has to get better as a rebounder to be able to play that position longterm for us . He has to stop leaking out on the breaks and start chasing defensive boards and then running the floor hard . If Smoove doesnt improve in that area it wont matter if we keep Marvin there we will never be able to hold on our own down low. Also why is that your analysis is seemingly based on Marvin not playing when no one said that he wouldnt play . On most teams you strive for your best lineup to be your starting lineup but you also dont want to wear them down either . How would having Joe crash the boards more somehow be more tiring then him driving into 4-5 guys getting hammered on the offensive end . Outside of Lebron what small forward is some physical specimen that overwhelms players with their size and strength ? LJ retired years ago :) . I believe that lineup is our best because it would work against teams who best defense against us was double teaming Joe but that doesnt mean it will work against everyone . Against some teams we will have to go with our best matchups and that may involve Crawford at the point but thats the beauty of flexibility. You will say that those two additional rebounds will play a difference but when I look at the other areas that immediately get improved like ft shooting ,three point shooting,and PASSING I totally disagree . Those rebounds meant so much to last years team because with our poor ft shooting inability to give Joe a rest we had to work so hard to close out games that other teams win going away . However if the 3 guard lineup allows for a faster start ,better ft shooting ,and a better ability to build and sustain leads which leads to easier wins and more rest for Joe then ultimately with the current makeup of the team thats the best way to go .

Well you are under the impression that size means everything when its only a small part of our game .You also have to take into account skills team strengths and weaknesses . At the end of the day JJ is our best player and we have to do some things to relieve the amount of pressure placed on him . If JJ slides to SF he wont have to score as much and can better utilize his all around game . I know that JJ if he didnt have to focus on scoring so much could get 3 more defensive rebounds per game . This also makes us even quicker changing ends and allows us to spread the floor which with the 3ay our offense is set up is a huge advantage for us . I just dont think we could put a better lineup on the floor than one that has JJ grab a board with Crawford and Bibby flaring to the deep corners and Smoove running the wing with AL as the trailer . Yes we get smaller but we become a better passing, better shooting, better ball handling team. In your theory we are heavier and longer but we are also very predictable. Ive always thought that our best lineup would be the one that increases the effectiveness of our best player and since we run a isolation based system that would increase the effectiveness of the entire team..

You cant really use numbers the way you are because you are assuming everyones responsibilities stays the same when if we did make that change it wouldnt. I dont think the 3 guard lineup is something you use every game but I dont think it would have the effects you claim either . To use your logic we lose the rebounds but wouldnt we also gain over 4 more assists per game and over 6 more points per game. Changing the lineup doesnt mean that Marvin wouldnt play we would just be using a different style to start the game so he would still give us his boards. Also I see Marvins fg% affecting us like this . He was 4th on the team in fga so if adding Crawford and removing Marvin allows the leading shot taker in Joe to shoot a higher percentage that would help our fg% much more than Marvins percentage . I really do believe that the 3 guard lineup is best used after weve had a several months to see how other teams will play us this year . You want teams to lock into the way they defend us and then throw the 3 guard lineup out there .

hahaha thats one of my favs because everybody nowadays are all buddy buddy. Back then it was either put up or shutup . This was always makes me laugh because there is no way you could do this today without all sorts of hell breaking out. ROFL at Pippen walking over to tell Spike Lee I just dunked on your boy so sit down lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETzpRdC6WS8

There are no minutes on the perimeter right now so now we cant offer Flip minutes and we need to sign a vet big that can defend . Between the pg/sg/sf positions there are 144 minutes thats enough for 4 good players to get 36 minutes each . If you give Mo OR Teague 8-10 minutes a game that shaves two more minutes off of each of those players times. Joe Smith is a excellent choice for a 20 mpg big . He rebounds and defends decently and has a good motor which is what you want in a backup and he has a good shot as well. Zaza Joe Smith Marvin Mo Crawford is an excellent second group

I get exactly what you are doing and either you dont understand your own point or you are slanting your argument and ignoring the obvious . Crawford is averaging 18 ppg over the past 6 years while his career numbers are 15 ppg . So because Flip approached Crawfords career numbers but are nowhere near the actual level Crawfords been playing at he last 6 years that somehow everyone else is hoping that Crawford plays DOWN to his career numbers in hopes of being better or at least as good as Flip? Secondly you ignore the game outside of the numbers and the actual abilities and impact each player has on the game . You are arguing numbers per minute well the one time Flip was actually given starters minutes with the Cavs (36mpg) the numbers didnt increase which is why you just cant look at stats and extrapolate that hey if he had more minutes he would produce more Flip numbers 2003-2004 (Sea) 24 mpg 12 pts 2 assists 2 rebs 2005-2006 (Cavs) 36 mpg 13 pts 2 assists 2 rebs 2008-2009 (atl) 25 mpg 12 pts 2 assists 2 rebs The fact is that regardless of minutes Flips production is gonna be the same what he did with us was not increase his production but his efficiency but that is because of the lowering of expectations . Crawford immediately makes us a better ft shooting team ,a better three point shooting team , a better passing team ,a more versatile team, and a much better 4th quarter team. Flip was great last year in his role BUT he exceeded expectations because we had such low expectations to begin with . We should probably stop saying Crawford is gonna be in Flips role because Crawfords role will be much larger than Flips was .

A lot things have to be discussed such as playing time ,money ,YEARS and dont forget you are usually in competition with the other playoff teams so its important to get the right fit and to make sure you dont overpay for someone who is not.

Well Crawford is flat out a better and more productive player. I dont know how you would come to the conclusion that they were even on the same level. Flip was a 20 mpg player while Crawford will get 30+ mpg and be on the floor at the end of games.Crawford will probably get all star attention even as a 6th man and is another player like Joe who you can put the ball in his hands and he can make a play for someone else . Not to mention teams wont leave him to double because as someone said hes respected around the league and when he gets it going you have to double him . If Joe and Bibby are off he can come in and carry the offense both in scoring and passing and can hurt teams when they decide to double Joe . Flip was great but him and crawford are totally different players in reference to their ability impact the game

yeah it should be reduced . If you look at Woodys sub patterns Joe doesnt usually sit until well into the second quarter but now that we have Crawford you will see Joe sit probably at the 2 minute mark of the 2nd quarter . Also too many instances of Joe never getting a rest in the second halves of games. I think we will see more 3 guard lineups in the second half especially in the 4th .So I think Crawford and Evans come in in the 3rd and then Evans leaves and Crawford stays as Joe slides to SF in the 4th against certain teams . Without any summer league I just dont think there will be any minutes for Teague the first half of the season.Hes gonna be absolutely shell shocked the first month or two .

Wow I think people are overlooking that as of right now there are no more minutes in the backcourt There are 96 minutes to split betwen the pg/sg positions if split equally it would be Bibby 32 Joe 32 Crawford 32 Once you factor in that now with the addition of Crawford we can slide Joe to the three at various times that cuts out minutes basically all the perimeter players minutes barring injures . So basically Al J-smoove Marvin Joe Bibby Zaza Crawford and whatever big that we add will be the 8th guy That means Evans,Teague ,Flip ?? these guys will be fighting for minutes that will come few and far between if everyone is healthy In the nba the 4th guard gets spot minutes thats why Flip may not return because we wont be looking to give a pay raise to our 4th guard and that 4th guard wont be willing to stay put for the same money and less minutes . Right now the only minutes available on the team are minutes at the backup PF spot.

I fully believe the 3 guard lineup will work but we cant start that unit. I think Crawford gives us a advantage at point guard in certain situations so while I want to see the 3 guard lineup at the end of the game and in the second quarter against certain teams I think we need to keep those opposing coaches juggling those lineup to see how they can matchup with a Joe and Crawford backcourt at various times of the game .

Thank you I was gonna say that . How can everyone else add all these post 30 yrs old and get better but we add a good player under 30 and we dont . Thats a weird kinda self hate .

Crawford was on the Bulls for 4 years and was SIGNED AND TRADED as a restricted free agent to the knicks (the knicks were a playoff team the year before) he then played the next 4 years in NY he then played most of the last year with GS and we just got him in a trade So he spent 9 of his first 10 training camps with two teams and we will be the 3rd team he has gone to training camp with in a 10 year career and somehow hes considered a journeyman ? You said Crawford and Flip are journeyman for a reason but I dont see how anyone can say Crawfords and Flips careers have been similar in anyway . A journeyman has nothing to do with nba titles . A journeyman at least imo is someone who ends up going to team to team on short term contracts and are fringe rotation players. Crawford is acknowledged to be a poor defender and yet when I look at the numbers he comes out to be average . Bibby as well...just average but he looks worse because his offense is no longer dominant enough to allow him to keep pace with his opponents as he did when he was younger.