SalvorMallow

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bey with the step out of bounds TO.

I'm sure he's thinking about the 4yr/$62 million he turned down. He'll be lucky to get MLE money now.

If Bey isn't hitting 3s (like he hasn't been), he is very tough to play with his atrocious defense. hes 1-6 tonight.

Haliburton has 13 assists in 18 mins...that's incredible.

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Was talking to two sources and just kept it on sigh

You have a burner for talking to your sources? Talk about good operational security 

Ya'll ready to get within 1 possession in the last 5 mins only to lose by 20?

OK I was watching the game when I needed to be working...The Hawks made it easy for me to make the right decision to get back to work 

Trae having an awful start.

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Like I said before, I don't disagree with the need of defense.   I agree we need that.   However, if we have been scoring the whole game... nonstop... at 60% at times...  isn't an easier fix to just keep doing what we been doing?

Tonight we play Indiana.   They play nonstop offense also.   They are a really bad defensive team, but it doesn't matter... their strength is that they will continue to try to score. 

Sometimes, you have to come to the realization that I don't have to have a great defensive team.  I just need a team where I can get 1 or 2 stops when I need them. 

 

44 minutes ago, AHF said:

It is more than "in principle."  I think it is a clearly established fact that teams give up fewer points after they have scored.  Any given possession can buck that trend but we are talking about trends and big pictures.  

For a team to make a big comeback they have to net out to positive points possession after possession.  If you score, you reduce or eliminate that net differential and over time you will absolutely play better defense if you are working with a set defense than you will when the other team is grabbing a board or generating a turnover and coming back at you on the fly.  

I'm not making the case our defense doesn't need to improve.  It is obvious that it does.  But there is more than one way up the hill to combat the big negative differential down the stretch and better offensive sets from us can be a very significant improvement to protect against those big comebacks in multiple ways.

So the assertion you both are making is that we can never have a stretch where we score 4 points in 2 minutes or we just lose the game? It's not like we had a 5 or 6 minute drought (which we have done many times this season), it was literally 2.5 minutes and we actually scored a couple times.

We scored 141 points in the game for crying out loud! At some point you have to think it's easier to get back on defense and get a stop or at least make them use more than 5 seconds of the shot-clock than it is having to score on every single possession to maintain your lead. 

If you want to talk about adjustments we could have made to improve our chances:

• We should've ran OO instead of Capella because they were playing ultra small and running hard. Capella wasn't fast enough to get up the floor to defend that style.
• We should have pulled Bey for Forrest to get more defense on the floor.
• I also saw several times when JJ would play matador defense because he had 5 fouls and didn't want to foul out. Coach should've told him to keep playing defense or sat him for someone who would.

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

I will note that if we score it is much easier to effectively defend from the other team inbounding than if we miss and they are running back against us before our defense is set.  So good offense would improve the defense even if it wouldn't solve it.

In principle, sure, but JJ scored twice during that stretch, and both times the Thunder came back and scored within 7 seconds. I'm not buying that the offense was the real problem.

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

While I agree with you on the defensive breakdown.

Coach Snyder has to put in an offense that can get the ball into the halfcourt set comfortably.   An Extension of Jordan saying "You Reach, I teach"  there has to be a response to the other team pressing and blitzing.  It seems that we have no offensive answer for that except to panic.  Panicked offense doesn't score.  Because even if our defense breaks down and allows SGA an easier bucket, if he's just trading buckets, then it's moot and the other team will become more desperate.  

It does not make sense to dominate a team for 3.75 quarters and for 1/4 of the quarter, they are able stop us and score on us at will. 

Givem something to execute coach.

 

How much do you need to score when ur up 16 with 3:05 mins to go? Obviously it'd be nice to keep getting buckets, but we gave up 17 points in 2:38 of game time. That's the equivalent of around 306 points if you extrapolate that across 48 mins. 

That, to me, is more of a problem than the offense (which admittedly was tragic as well, we only scored 4 points in that stretch) . Hold them to their season average pts/100 and we comfortably blow them out by double digits even with our anemic scoring. 

Relevant quote from AJC article:

Quote

So far this season, the Hawks average 16.3 opponent fast-break points, the third most in the NBA behind the Trail Blazers and Mavericks. But per Cleaning the Glass, those transition points don’t come off of turnovers, despite opponents averaging 17 points off of the average 13.7 Hawks miscues per game.

 

Instead, opponents have taken advantage of the Hawks’ inability to get back on defense after failing to grab the rebound or after a made basket. Per Cleaning the Glass, the Hawks sit in the 29th percentile in frequency with nearly 35% of their live-ball rebounds leading to transition play. On average, the Hawks give up 126.4 points per 100 transition plays, which puts them in the 24th percentile, according to Cleaning the Glass.

 

The Hawks have looked to address transition defense over the years, but their inability to get back continues to hurt them this season. That issue gets exacerbated when opponents adjust in the second half after the Hawks have built double-digit le ads.

28 minutes ago, dalamchops said:

last minute collapses has everything to do with late game planning/execution. won't matter who we add if quin don't clean that shit up.

Quinn can clean up the game planning, but the players gotta clean up the execution.

The coach shouldn't have to gameplan to stop a 3 minute long OKC layup line. I highly doubt the scheme was "let SGA get right to the rim 5 seconds into the shot clock after every miss".

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=712&GameID=0022300467&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Gilgeous-Alexander 2' Running Finger Roll Layup (33 PTS)

I would have personally preferred Forrest on the floor at this stage of the game instead of Bogi 

Watch the last play...Trent Forrest (who had an overall great game) fell asleep and and let Joe get a wide open 3 off. Maybe he thought the team was going to foul on the inbounds?

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=722&GameID=0022300467&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS Joe 3PT Jump Shot

Tons of breakdowns like this in the last 3 min.

21 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Where do you grab these lineup visuals?  Love these charts

https://popcornmachine.net/

32 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I'll admit I didn't get to see the 4th qtr last night but I will say Trea as good as he is shoots us out of the lead in some games.  

When's the last time Trae shot us out of a lead? I think it's been a long time. 

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

Quote: "There is no reason not to believe that if given starter minutes he can't average 15/8/3 and 35% from 3."

 

JJ stats today:  15.3/8.1/2.7 and 41.5% from 3.

 

John Collins this season: 13.7/7.8/.8 and 37.3% from 3.

Collins last season for us: 13.1/6.5/1.2 and 29% from 3.

 

I think the debate is over.

 

JJ probably finishes the season closer to 18/9/3.

Yikes you whiffed it on the 3p% bro

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

How’d you know!!! That was from deadlifting groceries though.. wut, that’s a solid 5-10 pounds..

Giving milk squats a new meaning. 

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Everyone is bad.  Guys dont come to help most of the time.  When they do, no one else is moving into space to take advantage of the brief 4v3.  And part of the problem is as soon as Trae passes out of the double hes standing waiting for another pass instead of relocating on the court.

No way you can put this on Trae's lack of off-ball movement when he is getting trapped at half court and full-court pressed. Murray seems to have a total brainfreeze in the 4Q because he starts making serial boneheaded plays the moment the game clock strikes 12. 

I'd love to see any Hawk try and get a passing angle so Trae doesn't have to make awkward bounce passes and lobs to hit his guys under the 3pt line from half court.

40 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Just saw the boxscore not the game yet but..

 

JJ..

Holy moly 

28/7/3/4 steals what in holy..

JJ game  

Unless I watch the game and see otherwise but this stat line tell me I think he was our best tonight again. This kid.. good lord.

He has been MY MOST SURPRISING HAWK IN MY 38 years of watching.. wow..

I mean .. I can’t wait to watch the game.

If u think ur hype now, wait till your legs are sore from jumping out of your seat OVER AND OVER. This cat is straight up electric. 

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Where are the wins?

They're all with Dre.. Good point. 

2 minutes ago, shakes said:

I wouldn't be so sure about that.  OKC played a massive game last night and won.  This morning the world woke up and realized that OKC is really really good.  They are the talk of NBA radio all day.   They just came off a stretch where they won 10 of 12 and trounced several contenders in the process.  They have a massive January schedule coming up.  They're playing a team/franchise that would best be described as a laughing stock to the rest of the league.

This has trap game written all over it for OKC.   I wouldn't be surprised if ATL gets the win tonight.

Aww but that would make you cry if your favorite team lost. 

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I just want to point out that @macdaddy and @SalvorMallow liked the OP.  They shld catch some strays too.

*pew* *pew*

That's coooold-blooded, kg. 

Wowie my umm... Account got hacked and... I was on ambien that day... Plus it's my boy Spud I didn't want him to feel like he was on an island. 

This is definitely one of those times where I am happy to have my crow served up to me confit. JJ has been a breath of fresh air for this franchise when so many other things are going wrong. 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It would include Murray, Bogi, and JJ for sure. 

This is a steep price, but you gotta pull the trigger if you get an inkling that Zion just needs a change of scenery. Trae+Zion PNR would literally be unstoppable.