noble

Yeah either way this team went last year it was going to be the same result, no chance at a ring. Not saying we have one now, but at least there is a small chance at a superstar now. We had a zero percent chance before.

This. So much this.

What I don't get is what people thought could and would actually happen. I mean we had a roster that was slowly getting worse, we couldn't keep the talent we had, and we couldn't get high quality talent in. I agree this might take a few years, it wasn't like we were contending for a ring anyway. I get the idea of morale and such, but if there is a clear path the first year or 2 shouldn't be so heartbreaking for players and staff. They know what the road forward is and have a clear understanding of the intent. Now if it goes beyond 3 or 4 years, I can see the morale becoming an issue, but I just don't see it now. I can buy the idea of 2 or so years in the lottery, completely there in my head. No illusions otherwise. But to say this is a 5 or 6 year thing, eh, not there. Player evaluation is the key to every team no matter where they are in the pecking order. It is about finding the best pieces to accomplish what you want. I'll roll with it for a while, and I can accept it. I want to see a ring for the Hawks before I die. Maybe this path works, maybe it doesn't. What I do know is we weren't sniffing one the road we were on.

I'm just busy. But I'll post from time to time for the conversation (yes even the tank/no tank ones) to see other perspectives. Right now there isn't a ton to talk about as we all know the direction of the team this season. Most are in a wait and see mode for off-season discussion. But I will look at a lot of posts to get some viewpoints to think about even if I don't join the convo.

Exactly, so we didn't have a winning culture when we made the playoffs the last ten years? So what is the difference if we try a rebuild vs the path we were on?

A losing culture? Dog, it's been 10 years of playoffs and now only 15 games into a rebuild season. I'm not saying next year we are championship bound or anything, but wow.

You can have a winning culture and not get free agents to get you over the hump to be a championship contender too. I think we all know a team like that.

This is the issue right here. I agree we could have gone into the season with a young team that would have made the playoffs had some different moves been made. Keeping Dwight a year, THJ, Sap, etc. But right here AHF hit the nail on the head. It would have been a decent team to make the playoffs, but not win a ring. We couldn't compete with elite. It would have taken injuries on about four teams to even think this was a possibility. Now let's be clear I don't think tanking will be the magical formula for one, but the path we were on wasn't the way either. I'm not sure, if I am being honest, much could have been done to turn this team into a contender.

Nope, I don't think a 19 year old will work right away, but over a little bit of time. (ATL is hoping it falls in line with LeBron diminishing or gone) I think you need a superstar to get great players, which CAN lead to a ring, not just another playoff appearance. It may not happen for a few seasons, so be it. You win 30-40 next season and either be the 8th seed or barely miss the playoffs, well that is improvement. I agree more than 2 seasons in a row of an absolute terrible Hawks team could break Mike down. I don't see it with one season as he knew what was coming before this season ever started. I think he said he would go with it for a year maybe two at the most. But this isn't about what those okay with a rebuild attempt would like. This is about the Anti-Tank. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE OR RATHER HAD SEEN HAPPEN?

Biggest issue I have with this is, we tried this when Horford was here and we couldn't get free agents to come. We tried by adding Sap, and we STILL couldn't get players to come. That roster would probably be a 5th or 6th seed. Not really a threat for a ring and it would take some serious injection of talent over the next few years to sniff the ECF let alone a ring. Since we couldn't sign real free agents I'm not sure how we could have done that. I do see what you are thinking and that wouldn't be the worst roster I could see rolling out. But I am not sure it would have been sustainable or a viable threat. We probably would have picked middle of the draft again.

This is what I have been saying too. We were already on a downward slope when Horford left and we couldn't get pieces to go with him when we had him. We made the playoffs, but we never had that ONE guy that would be a difference maker. Once Horford left and we started missing on other FAs the only scenario would be to rebuild. I think the major difference between the "Pro Tankers" as KB and Brazil calls them and those on the other side is many of the "pro tankers" weren't happy with just watching a decent team that was going to make the playoffs but was never going to win a ring. It isn't that any of us want to see a bad team for a long duration, I think we all can agree on that there. What the hope is that one day in our lifetimes we get to see Atlanta as the NBA champs. There are ZERO guarantees. We could make the playoffs in as short as next year or in 2 years, or we could be terrible for a longer duration. So to KB, you are so fatalistic to think with a good draft pick, a solid move or 2 in FA, and development of what we have, we wouldn't make the playoffs sooner than you think. Could we be stuck? Sure, but I would argue we were stuck before too. You can't honestly tell me you thought this team had a shot at a championship in the last few years. Like I said it isn't that we are all pro-tank or whatever. We are hoping we get a chance at a ring. To do that you need talent, real talent, game changing talent. The team thing might be fun to watch, but without a Superstar, it is nothing more than fodder. How you don't see that all of your "evidence" you give all had Superstar level talent they drafted, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not saying support the tank or whatever you want to call it. I am saying you should support the attempt at getting a player that MIGHT be a difference maker for a team that has not tasted a championship since it moved cities. We weren't getting one in free agency. You have to have one to win a ring, this is not debatable. It just isn't.

It has worked, just usually not as quickly as you would like. Tank, rebuild, gather assets, injuries, whatever you want to call it, getting a Superstar early in the draft helps teams. Plain and simple you have to have an All-NBA caliber player to be a championship team. How do you get one? Free agency or draft. It has been clear we have never been able to get one in free agency, which leads us down the draft path. Usually more Superstars are found at the top of the draft, that is just statistics, not an absolute, statistically you have a higher chance.

You keep saying pro tank. I am not necessarily pro tank as much as I am pro Superstar. We couldn't get one in free agency, ever. So why not try to draft one? Sure, maybe you get it wrong, but I'm on board with the attempt. If you couldn't get one the other way, try a different way. You know the whole insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, and expecting different results thing. (Which actually isn't an Einstein quote)

Yeah MY statement wasn't pro or anti. It was stating no matter what, the roster going into this year wasn't going to be a good team, thus why not play the young guys more. You may want to re-read that.

Yeah i am not so sure we would have won. Maybe. But beating the Warriors, not a chance. The media is a double edged sword. You need them for national interest, which brings eyes. Which brings money. Which brings Superstars. While most if us here follow the Hawks regardless, we aren't really what drives money to this team. It is the casual fan, national eyes, TV, etc.

Where was the banter? Seriously I think I missed it.

Valid. I would almost be okay with that level of excitement again. It's been a long time

Yeah, not sure why this isn't happening. Tank or not this team wasn't going to be very good. Why not get them minutes?

I dunno. I think when Nique was playing we were at least talked about on a national level. His highlights were a reason for discussion and eyes. But I get when you are saying.

Hey look at that Babbitt was 4-4 from 3.

Ouch....just ouch

Wait...do we really only have 2 offensive rebounds this late into the game? Haha.

I think this is where we differ. We haven't really been a relevant team since Nique was here. As hard as it is to admit as a fan, but even making the playoffs we had zero chance of a championship. Even IF we had kept the core we had, but never added a Superstar we had pretty much zero chance at a title. So making the playoffs was meaningless to me. Cool, I got to watch a few extra games, but not once did I actually think we had the talent to beat one of the top flight teams. Can't WIN a championship if you don't have the talent regardless if you make the playoffs. We were relevant for about a month and a half when we went on that month long run....then we were not really talked about. Why? No Superstar to draw eyes.

My guess is with a limited roster Bud doesn't want to get into a track meet type game. Slow it down and try to control the clock a little bit. But they are taking it to an extreme.

Yeah I think that is probably a coaching thing. Not sure why though.