RandomFan

Sounds like some serious jumping the gun if you're ready to bail on the Budenholzer train in year 2. I think most of us see that this is just the beginning of what will hopefully be the golden era of Hawks basketball. Some perspective might help; just think about what your expectations were at the start of the season.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/28/8506427/hawks-nets-breakdown-nba-playoffs-2015-series-tied I posted that article in another thread, but felt it was warranted here as well since it addresses in more detail the things you were trying to get at. This is actual analysis that kind of shows most of your points, while I'm sure seeming logical on the surface, really aren't the reasons behind why we are struggling and are mostly wrong. I think Prada pretty much nails it with that article. The Horford and Sap injuries are killing us in this series more than most people realize.

So what that says explicitly is that in the last 59.6 seconds of the 4th quarter Brooklyn was credited with two incorrect calls in their favor that pretty much cost us that win. Screw those refs man... For those curious the calls were: 1) 00:59.6 - Turnover: 24 Second Violation Comment: Teague (ATL) does not gain possession after the blocked shot by Millsap (ATL) and the shot clock is incorrectly reset. 2) 00:36.8 - Turnover: Traveling Brook Lopez Comment: Lopez (BKN) jumps in the air and lands before passing the ball.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/28/8506427/hawks-nets-breakdown-nba-playoffs-2015-series-tied This link is another good article from Mike Prada talking about what BKN is doing right versus us, and how they are giving us problems. A lot of it has to do with their final item - Horford and Millsap are both not healthy, and our effectiveness stems from the sum of our parts all being strong links in a chain - but right now, the two most important links are weak due to their injuries limiting their impact. There are many Gif's in the article, so view it on their site. ___________________________________________________________________ The Nets and Hawks are tied, and it's not a fluke By Mike Prada @MikePradaSBN on Apr 28, 2015, 12:04p The Brooklyn Nets have a real shot of pulling off one of the biggest upsets in recent NBA history. The No. 8 seed hasn't just tied their series with the Atlanta Hawks at 2-2 because of a couple fluke victories. They've tied it by playing the East's best regular-season team to a draw through four games. The aggregated score in the series: Nets 394, Hawks 393. It's tempting to focus on the Hawks' problems. They've been far too good at their peak to be in a dogfight against a sub-.500 regular season team with the point differential of a 33-win club. Even if they win this series -- and they still have the edge thanks to home-court advantage -- they have shown major weaknesses that teams can exploit down the road. Yet, it wouldn't be fair to analyze what Atlanta is doing wrong without highlighting what Brooklyn is doing right. The Nets have slowed the Hawks' vaunted offense to a crawl and are slowly figuring out ways to attack Atlanta's pressure defense. They could have defeated the Hawks in Game 2, even with an average Deron Williams game, then they did hold off the Hawks' best offensive performance in Game 4 thanks to a vintage one. Why is a series that was so lopsided on paper tied? It's a combination of multiple factors. 1. Cutting off Kyle Korver Nets coach Lionel Hollins scoffed at reporters after the all-star shooting guard hit 5-of-11 from three-point range to lead the Hawks to a Game 1 victory. His implication: Korver wasn't important enough to change the game plan. But Hollins' actions speak much louder than his words, because the Nets have changed their game plan to make sure Korver doesn't get any clean looks. He's making just 28 percent of his threes since Game 1 and has barely had any room to fire without at least one hand in his face. Even those numbers don't measure all the times he's curled off a screen prepared to shoot, only for the Nets to be right there with him. "How many shots did he take yesterday and how many did he miss? See, if he's that good, he'd make all of them." Hollins said. "Everybody misses, man. He's a good shooter, I acknowledge that, we acknowledge that as a team, we game plan for him because he is a great shooter. But until he starts shooting 100 percent, we've got to play and be in position to help, and then recover, and close out. "It's not like we're talking (Stephen) Curry. Korver, he's a great come-off-the-screen guy, he's great with moving without the ball, but he rarely puts the ball on the floor like Curry and shakes you up." The Nets decided that because they don't have one single player that can chase Korver around screens, nobody should have to try. Instead, they're are playing similar-sized players at the 2, 3 and 4 positions and switching all screens. It's hard to get Korver open when Bojan Bogdanovic is picked off, only for Joe Johnson or Alan Anderson to help him out. Stopping Korver has become a collective effort. Even when he escapes the switching wings, other Nets have stepped up to prevent his opportunities. Watch the lumbering Lopez jump out to prevent a Korver three. And notice here how Williams very subtly comes off Teague to help prevent Korver from getting a look in transition. The Nets have correctly identified Korver as the most important member of Atlanta's offense. During the regular season, the Hawks scored nearly 111 points with Korver in the game and less than 99 with him on the bench. Hollins was right with his crabby comments in one respect: While Korver can hit jumpers from anywhere, he's not a driving threat like Stephen Curry. Take away his threes -- a difficult, but doable task -- and he doesn't have too many other ways to score. Better yet, by switching effectively, communicating and addressing threats only as they present themselves rather than overreacting to decoys, the Nets can take away Korver's threes without giving up openings elsewhere. That's the holy grail teams haven't pulled off all year. As the Nets are showing, though, life is different in the playoffs. 2. Giving the point guards space By contrast, the Nets seem willing to let the Hawks' point guards do all the creating they want. Jeff Teague was an all-star and Dennis Schröder was one of the league's most promising backups, but given space to roam they've both been confused at not having to create every inch of the way. Teague broke out in Game 4, but has otherwise been quiet. Schoreder has been worse than quiet, alternating spectacular drives with out-of-control attacks that have killed his team. Brooklyn has varied their coverages on both players, but generally are willing to give them space to shoot jumpers. Neither is an expert marksman and both like to dribble into their shot, which ruins Atlanta's offensive flow. These are logged as open shots, but they're not the type of look Atlanta wants. The correct thing for both players to do is to attack the space given, but they're struggling to do that effectively. Teague went back to being a tentative player overwhelmed by his options against soft coverages earlier in his career before a Game 4 breakout. Schröder is attacking, but lacks the precision to actually make the most of those attacks. He in particular has missed open teammates multiple times in an attempt to be "aggressive." The Nets' blueprint will be copied if the Hawks manage to pull out the series. If Teague and Schröder can't improve against these coverage, they're in for a world of pain against Washington's ferocious pick and roll defense in the next round. If they make it that far. 3. Brooklyn's "short rolls" The Nets' offense struggled against Atlanta's relentless pressure in the first three games, but came alive in Game 4. Deron Williams' revitalization was a major reason, of course. The former superstar turned big-money albatross poured in 35 points after the Hawks, convinced his shooting slump would continue, stopped defending him. Williams converted wide-open looks early in the game and carried that confidence and hot shooting for the rest of the contest. But the Nets' offense broke out for many other reasons. Brooklyn generated plenty of good looks at the three-point line, taking advantage of a Hawks weakness that hadn't been exploited during the regular season. The Hawks surrendered the most three-point attempts in the league, but teams hit just 34 percent of those shots because they were under duress from the Hawks' aggressive traps. Brooklyn's answer: Accept that the traps are coming, quickly move the ball and profit before the Hawks can rotate. Brook Lopez is no longer rolling all the way down the lane. Instead, he's stopping at the free-throw line -- NBA people call this a "short roll" -- and taking the pass from the point guard or a wing sliding up to the ball. Once he gets it, he can either swing a pass to the open shooter in the corner ... ... or taking a floater himself. And if the Nets miss the initial shot, they often had Atlanta's defense scrambled enough to get an offensive rebound. This is how Brooklyn is using Lopez's size. Calls for formulaic post-ups missed the point, because Atlanta can help and recover on those. As long as the Nets can manipulate the floor before these pick and rolls happen, he can get the ball at the free throw line in the middle of the floor and be a difference-maker. 4. The Hawks' All-Star frontcourt isn't at 100 percent It should be noted that the Nets' strategy is working because Al Horford and Paul Millsap are not themselves health-wise. Under normal circumstances, these two play in concert with Korver and the point guards perfectly. Both roll smartly to the basket, either can score from the perimeter or inside and each has a strong understanding of spacing so they don't get in the way. But both are feeling the effects of injury in this series. Millsap's right shoulder is not fully healed and he is thus reluctant to mix it up inside. He's making his perimeter shots, but those slippery drives and dives to the rim aren't as quick, which slows Atlanta's motion. He's oddly been more comfortable driving and finishing with his left hand, which was not the case when he was healthy. Most importantly, he hasn't been effective punishing smaller players in the post, which allows Brooklyn to switch perimeter assignments to cover Korver without worrying about the consequences. Horford has not felt comfortable since suffering a pinky injury earlier in the series. When he's going well, he fires mid-range shots with confidence and nails them at a very high rate. The Hawks' offense may be three-point oriented, but it needs Horford as a bail-out option, particularly when teams send extra help to Teague and Korver. That bail-out option isn't there anymore and the other Hawks scorers are suffering. ★★★ This series illustrates how the Hawks are only the Hawks when all of the links are strongest. The Nets are shutting off Korver, which in turn forces Teague to do too much, which is especially difficult because Horford and Millsap are not themselves. The four All-Stars thrived because of their symbiotic relationship, but that also means they're only as good as the weakest link in the chain. Without DeMarre Carroll, the forgotten fifth starter that's having the series of his life, Atlanta would be losing this series. As it stands, the Hawks are in trouble, and the Nets should be credited for that.

https://www.facebook.com/TedFilmNL/videos/vb.262186617206086/812926258798783/?type=2&theater That is a good video breakdown of some of the plays that went wrong for us in Game 3. Also how Deron is really hurting the Nets chances.

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/david_aldridge/04/27/morning-tip-oklahoma-city-thunder-prepare-for-next-stage-in-franchise-atlanta-hawks-player-development-brook-lopez-qa/index.html This is a really really good article about our Hawks. The entire article isn't about the Hawks, our part starts about 2/5th of the way down. Quite a few things I've never seen before.

Pretty much this. Plus a few more things. For one, he was paid handsomely to be our star player, to lead us to a championship. I don't blame him for taking the money someone was offering him; but I do blame him for his apparent lackadasical attitude; his lackluster performances in big games, and not being the alph-dog team leader that took this team by the horns and did something with it. Do we think someone like Lebron or Kobe or Wade would have settled for being so carefree and casual about wins and lossess? Again, I don't blame him for who he is, nor taking the money; what I blame him for is taking that money knowing the role that would be demended of him when he did, and never fullfilling that role Second, to many people Joe is a symbol of everything that was wrong about our Hawks while he was here. The ISO-Joe offenses, the lack of defense, the terrible team chemistry. The underachieving. The lack of any real future because of how much money was tied up into players that were getting overpaid. A team that would allow Josh Smith to hoist brick after brick and never put a stop to it and demand better from him. Fans are finally now exposed to good team basketball; and now that we've seen how good it can be a lot of people are letting out their frustrations from having to watch the travesty of a team we had before. Combine what I've just said with the things hawksfanatic said above, and I think it's painfully obvious why a lot of people choose to boo Johnson - and I agree with them.

Shultz be hatin' on some Gearon, and for good reason. I'm drawing a blank on the bolded part. Does anyone else remember this happening? I don't remember anyone trying to bring him back this season so far.

And keep in mind, this is the same prick that has always been against Ferry from the beginning. This is just terrible. And it really hurts the chances of Ferry coming back. For one thing, Johhny Douchebag (a.k.a. Gearon) will be whispering in the new owners ear how terrible Ferry is; and second, if Johhny Douchebag is still a part of the ownership group, I'd highly doubt Ferry would even WANT to remain with the organization. This should be proof to every last one of you --- there is no god...

I would also imagine this is something that will be handled AFTER the season as well. No need making unneccessary waves during a championship run. But Grant Hill's Duke ties should definitely increase the odds in Ferry's favor.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/4/16/8269373/atlanta-hawks-preview-nba-playoffs-2015 This is an excellent article. Most of this is stuff that a lot of us already know, but it's nice to see an article that actually gets everything correct about why we are good, how we beat teams, and how they can beat us. I highly recommend clicking the article and reading it there because of the illustrated pictures and Gif's that accompany the article, but here is a snippet:

We'll see how that works out for them in the playoffs - IF they can get past a terrible Washington team.

It's ok, he's the same way on the Falcons board. Never anything positive to say. Always focusing on the worst possible outcomes. And typical terrible fan logic. So ya, you nailed it.

^^This...So much this. That is the point you are neglecting to notice Spursfan. It's not his responsibility to bubblewrap himself until gametime. And it's not being overprotective to point out your logical fallacy regarding this issue.

And by blaming both, you're.still.blaming.the.victim in Sefalosha. What part of that do you not understand? He deserves NO blame for this. Sefalosha didn't break his own ankle. Sefalosha didn't ask for it. You keep harping on "if" Sefalosha hadn't been out at night, which is 100% his right to do, then he would be still playing. There is only one "if" in this scenario - if the NYPD hadn't abusively and wrongfully broken his leg, he would be playing right now. They deserve 100% of the blame for this: THE END.

Still blaming the victim, I see... No. Thabo was not "asking for it." He was asking to be able to go out and enjoy himself at an hour that HE obviously felt was appropriate to be out. He, rightfully, had a reasonable expectation to be able to do that without having his freaking leg broken by members of an organization that is supposed to 'serve and protect' by definition. That YOU think the hour he was out was inappropriate is an issue that you have to deal with, not him. People can wax anectdotally about the supposed risks and dangers of being out at 4:00am, but seem to forget we live in a free country without a curfew where everyone should have a reasonable expectation of being safe from police brutality at every hour of the day - not only just when the sun is shining on their corruption. Get off your judgemental high-horses people and stop blaming the victim.

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/04/14/scotto-top-five-free-agent-sleepers-of-2015/ A similar player who will have to pick up the slack for an injured teammate in the playoffs is Hawks swingman DeMarre Carroll. With Thabo Sefolosha out for the remainder of the season with a broken fibula, Carroll will have extra duty defending the opponent’s best wing player in the postseason. After signing a two-year, $5 million deal with the Hawks in 2013, Carroll has been a steal while making the most of his opportunity as a full-time starter for the first time in his career. He started only 22 games in the previous four seasons with Memphis, Houston, Denver and Utah. This season, Carroll averaged a career-high 12.6 points and shot an efficient 49 percent from the field and 40 percent from downtown. “This sounds crazy, but this guy might get $8-9 million a season,” one executive told SheridanHoops. “That’s a high-end role player. Really, you try to get him at $7 million ideally. If somebody offers him $10 million, I don’t think Atlanta matches it.” If Carroll has a good playoff run with the Hawks by locking up the opponent’s best wing player and nailing open 3-pointers, he will receive the higher end of that range. The Hawks are a balanced team, which could allow Carroll to light it up on any given night and impress potential suitors on the league’s biggest stage. _________________________________________________________________ http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/14/hawks-demarre-carroll-says-he-will-most-definitely-consider-knicks-as-a-free-agent-this-summer/ Hawks’ DeMarre Carroll says he will ‘most definitely’ consider Knicks as a free agent this summer DeMarre Carroll has bounced around a bit to begin his NBA career, now playing for his fifth team in his sixth professional season. But he seems to have found a home with the Atlanta Hawks. Carroll has started all but one game since joining the Hawks in advance of last season, and is a key member of a team that has over-achieved to win 60 games and will finish the year at the top of the Eastern Conference standings. Atlanta would probably like to do what it can to keep Carroll in the fold, but he’ll be an unrestricted free agent this summer, trying to get his first high-dollar, long-term deal secured. That means he won’t be ruling out any potential suitors at this early stage of things, which, of course, includes the New York Knicks. From Marc Berman of the New York Post: “Most definitely,’’ Carroll said when asked if the Knicks would be a high consideration.“When guys talk about playing in certain places — they talk about Madison Square Garden and Staples Center. Those two places. New York has a lot to offer but at the end of the season, I’ll let my agent do that. We’ll keep our options and hopefully it will work out for the best.’’ This should not come across as shocking or controversial that Carroll would comment on a specific team or city in advance of free agency, while he’s still under contract with the Hawks. It isn’t breaking news that players covet the ability to play in large markets like New York or Los Angeles, or even smaller but more attractive ones like Miami. The reality is that Carroll would have answered similarly if he was asked about Sacramento or Minnesota, which are among the league’s least desirable cities. As a free agent looking to maximize his earning potential, there isn’t a single option worth ruling out until the negotiations have begun in earnest.

No, not really. You wouldn't ask for a reference that the world is round I'd hope? Perhaps I'm just more exposed to this information, but I'd assumed it was pretty common knowledge. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/13/incarceration-rate-per-capita_n_3745291.html

I don't think either number is really in dispute. The incareration percentage is a widely known fact. However, the deaths by police per capita is a much more difficult number to pin down, namely because of the lack of comprehensive statistics that our government DOESN'T keep on such an important item. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/08/how-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows/

No. This isn't anything against Moose at all, but in the playoffs rotations get tighter and shrink, and the starters play more minutes: meaning the backup minutes vanish. Most teams use an 8 to 9 man rotation for the playoffs. Before Thabo's injury, we were already looking at a 10 man rotation with the starters plus Dennis, Pero, Scott, Thabo, and Baze. I was already wondering if they might sit Baze for the playoffs and shrink it down to a 9 man rotation - that has obviously changed with the injury because now we have to have Baze as the backup wing. We'll probably stick to that 9 man rotation. I highly doubt we see Mack, Brand, Daye, or Moose for the playoffs unless it's in garbage time, or injury, or one other big OR, if Bud determines a matchup dictates one of those players serves us best over one of the series for some reason - which I find possible, but not likely.

News flash, if you want to be safe from all harm, lock yourself away in your house and never go outside. And even then a plane might fly into your house, so ya never know, do ya? You say there is no victim blaming, then turn around and exactly blame the victim with, "he had not made said bad decision, he wouldn't be in his current position, no matter what your opinion of the cops is." So exactly what bad decision? Going out to a club to experience some nightlife is not a bad decision. It's a reasonable expectation of a "good time" by most sane people if you are a person so inclined to consider that activity a good time. They didn't go out into a situation asking to be put in trouble. They didn't ask the police to break his freaking ankle. You're probably the kind of guy that blames a woman getting harrassed simply on what she wears. Learn the definition of victim blaming... I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that you were the person in charge of passing judgement on everyone else, what to consider acceptable behavior.

The victim blaming in this thread has reached an all-time douchebag Hall of Fame level...unreal. Get well Thabo. It sucks DUE TO THE ACTIONS OF THE NYPD that we're not going to be able to see our full team for the playoffs, but people that think you should be a robot and have no outside life are idiots.