BigDog90

On 6/9/2017 at 0:19 PM, capstone21 said:

He can't rebound and he is 30 so its not like he is a young up and coming player ... he has plateau'd already

Yeah, Hawks shouldn't target anybody over the age of 27.

On 6/6/2017 at 1:14 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

In 2018-19, that would be an awesome expiring contract to use in a trade.  With the cap leveling off, I think we will have teams looking to dump salary.  We can use it to our advantage.

Good point. I didn't think about that. Yeah, surprisingly cap hasn't rised like I thought it would.

On 6/4/2017 at 0:57 AM, JTB said:

Before we rip off into yet another possible deep discussion I must say I'm looking forward to seeing THJ signed long term on a good deal with the Hawks this summer however Dion Waiters is somewhat intriguing and should be considered.

Im not sure if it's been discussed around here (if so my bad, don't remember )...but looking at free agency these two are probably the best scoring potential SGs available who ironically both had career years with THJ having a better efficient year overall. 

LETS JUMP INTO IT:

-Though Waiters had a less efficient year from the field than THJ he did have a better year shooting 3s than THJ.

-Defensively I think they're both in the same boat but THJ showing much improvement towards the end of the season on that end may give him the slight edge (not sure if the same can be said about Waiters). Plus no need to jump too far into defense as neither are game changers on that end but I do like the fact that we know THJ is improving in that area.

-Overall I see two players that are very similar but THJ now shows more patience within his offense thanks to bud & staff which allowed him to be more efficient. Dion seems more aggressive offensively but THJ was aggressive in the same manner when he was with the Knicks and quite frankly being more aggressive isn't always a good thing if you're poorly disciplined which I think Waiters still is compared to THJ (Good example of aggressive poor decision offensive talent: Brandon Jennings).

Conclusion:

At the end of the day I see two things that stick out for Waiters that may interest the Hawks in going after him over retaining THJ and that's being a slightly better 3pt shooter (atleast this past season) & to me it looks like he has more speed than THJ (don't know for sure but if so) which is always a nice addition especially being that we already have one of the fastest and quickest young point guards in the league. It'd be great to have faster back court.

 

 

 

Thoughts if any? Who would you give the money to between these two if you're in Schlenk position?

Waiters said he wants to come back to Miami. Teams like Philly (hometown), Nets (likes young talent) can offer more money than ATL.

On 6/3/2017 at 5:17 PM, TheFuzz said:

I'm sure this'll be divisive, but here it goes... I'm fine letting Millsap walk, but I'm also fine keeping him (if it's not straight up max dollars)!

Millsap has been our best player since he joined: he plays hard every game, battles for boards and plays great defense. He's versatile offensively and is a solid #2 or #3 guy. I think his game will age well, and I believe he'll actually be worth his contract IF it's in the $25-30M/yr range and not more. That's similar money to Joe Johnson, but in the new cap, and Millsap is a more valuable player than Joe! He's not Duncan, of course, but he's Duncan-lite. He just needs some more talent around him. Plus, we are not exactly as asset starved as we make ourselves out to be. Don't believe me? Here's what we got if we don't use cap space...

- All our picks

- Extra firsts from Minnesota and Cleveland that we WILL get, Minnesota is not far off (seriously).

- Dunleavy's non-guaranteed contract. Teams are looking to dump cap this summer.

- Schröder, Hardaway and Prince are good young players with room to improve.

- The full MLE

- Bird rights on Ersan

- Possible Howard/Bazemore trades (yes, I believe we could fetch back assets for them, however minor).

So, we have options even above the cap! I think this is a fairly reasonable offseason for this summer...

1) Draft Jonah Bolden at #19 (look him up!)

2) Trade Dunleavy for Joseph from Toronto

2) Resign Millsap to a deal starting at $27M, Ilyasova to a $10M/yr deal and Hardaway to a $13M/yr deal.

3) Sign Ingles to the MLE

4) Bank on improvement from our youngsters. Get ready to pounce on a deal for Paul George, Butler and/or (on the lower end) Marc Gasol.

Dennis/Joseph

Ingles/Hardaway

Prince/Bazemore

Millsap/Ilyasova/Bolden

Howard/Millsap

 

Does not look unreasonable! We'd be a good deal better fighting for #2 in the East with our shooting and depth issues addressed, and we'd still have room to improve to get to the title level! I don't know, seems fine to me, and gives Millsap the chance to become a Hawks legend.

 

Ingles and Hardaway are going to get more than that. I think TOR values Joseph more than that. If anything they'd want to dump Carroll/Jonas.

He may be trying to get Dwight's trade value up. Unfortunately it may just come down to keeping him next season. Then, do a buyout for the 2018-19 or use the Stretch Provision on him this summer. 

11 hours ago, DS5 said:

I think Schlenk said something along these lines: "we have good assets to be prepared for a situation like Harden in OKC." I can only think of Klay that will be in a similar situation, and of course the obvious connection with Schlenk. But to be realistic...other teams with better assets could offer better packages for him. Maybe GS wants Baze back???? Sigh....

I don't see anyone in a Harden-like situation from the 2014 draft.

On 6/4/2017 at 1:24 AM, hazer said:

Schlenk said Bud is a top 10 coach in the league. Schlenk said players already want to come to Atlanta because they know Bud makes them better players. Schlenk said Bud develops players and his plan is to develop our young players and draft picks. How does that change from '17 to '18? Who does he bring in to match that in '18? Bud has been a head coach all of 4 years and already has a COTY and All-Star gig under his belt. Stop, just stop...

A newly hired GM isn't going to say Bud is on the hot seat. His actions are going to speak louder than his words.

On 6/2/2017 at 6:30 PM, sturt said:

I ask b/c we all pretty much knew when Ferry came in that Larry Drew's days were numbered, though he denied that at the time. Sooner than later, Ferry was going to want his time to be judged by how the team performed once he had someone he himself wanted for the job, and not just a nice guy who he inherited.

So, given that it appears we've come full circle back to the traditional GM approach, and that by his absence it's difficult to surmise that Bud is still regarded as one of the inner circle and is fundamental to the team's future success (at least where the owner is concerned)...

Should Schlenk just save himself and Bud and all of us fans some unnecessary time going down that road, and just seek a buy-out of whatever contract Bud has left?

I'm asking, not advocating. 24 hours ago, it wasn't even a reasonable question to put out there, but now it seems it most certainly is.

I'd just give Bud one more year. Just to see that him being GM was the reason why the team regressed the past 2 seasons. 

His coaching style is similar to GS's. He just need the right pieces. I believe if he was to get canned, Mike Brown would be the new head coach and his success right now is a credit to GS's talent level. We've seen how well he does when he doesn't have a stacked team.

7 hours ago, Bankingitbig said:

I am going to pass on Iguodala. I don't want another player way passed his prime (ie. Howard). Our offense needs some work, especially our shooting, and I don't see him improving it. I also think he will be a bit overpaid just due to his name and reputation.

That said, I do think he would be a decent mentor for Prince to learn from. I don't think he would necessarily steal minutes from Prince either and would actually be a good opportunity for Prince to play some 4 with Iggy at the 3. His playmaking ability would also be a big plus.

They can find him a cheaper mentor. 

On 5/30/2017 at 3:30 AM, Spud2Nique said:

After a lot of thought, I'm going over to the dark side and joining those in favor of a complete rebuild and please hear me out before you let me have it.

 

The following reasons are why I've changed my mind and here they are:

 

1. We have no superstars. If we had a superstar or a star in his prime (sap no longer prime), I would say let's build. We have none and if history is any indication, we shouldn't bank on any coming here via free agency anytime soon.

2. We have a roster in which only 6 players are guaranteed to come back (Dwight, Dennis, Baze, Delaney, Prince and Bembry). From those, 2 were rookies last year and are very solid players (already a head start in the youth movement). Dwight and Baze are players that can't be relied on moving forward, so technically we could definitely try and use them as pawns for getting more picks or younger players or hold onto them until the deadline. But imo, its better to face your mistakes and correct the course rather than keep going down a wrong path.

3. We have a new GM in colonel Schlenk, who is known most for his ability to scout talent. Having been around greats like Don Nelson and Jerry West, you have to figure something rubbed off on the guy. Why not take advantage his ability to spot talent by giving him more weapons in terms of the draft. We already have 10 or 11 picks over the next 3 years so if he is indeed as good as indicated, he should be given the chance to show his stuff and find the right guys for Bud.

 

4. Our coach. Coach Bud can teach and coach players. We see what he did with DMC, Sap, Dennis, Prince. The guy excels at getting the best out of his players. I would love to see what he could do in grooming some young players from the very start, fresh out of college. 

 

5. Our past. I'll admit the biggest reason I never want to tank is because of what happened to us from 2000-2007. We absolutely stunk and I always think I never want to go back there again. But now that I think about it, I understand why it took us so long to rebuild, it's because we had an inept front office with Billy Knight and that ownership mess. There was a war within between 2 knuckleheads in Bruce Levenson and Knight. You cannot have internal team issues and a GM in Knight and expect it not to take that long. What I'm saying is our rebuild/retool would take no more than 3 years max, but we would build it the right way with Schlenk/Bud/Wilcox/Sund/Grant Hill.

 

6. Lastly, there are a couple of teams you may have heard about..the Cavs and the Warriors. They will be facing each other for the 3rd straight finals...and it may not end there. These teams have a couple more years left in them...2-4 more years...sadly, we can't beat them. It's the stupid NBA's own fault for allowing powerhouses and screwing over 28 other franchises but that's what they did and now we have to ride it out, prolly until the end of this decade. :-(

 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to the dark side. I forgot who is in the rebuild camp. I know @NBASupes is in there for sure...im in Supes! Gimme the dark side tour. :-)

 

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. 

 

Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

 

ps @hazer, I think you already had you toes dipped in the rebuild pool with that Jonathan Isaac proposal.

 

 

 

 

I'm for a rebuild. They just have to fully embrace it and have a long term plan unlike Ferry/Bud.

That's just harsh. There are bigs like Thabeet who had worse careers.

9 hours ago, AHF said:

Yeah, I don't see the comparison to Brand as far as role with the team.  

I'm just talking his attitude. He was selfless during his time with the Hawks, did whatever was asked despite being an out of prime former no. 1. Although his minutes dropped during his last season with the Hawks, he was in the huddle pumping the boys up. Basically saying, Brand contributed regardless his role on the Hawks. He didn't need posts up. 

11 hours ago, Thomas said:

Elton had that reputation of a good locker room teammate and a helpful coach on the floor. We can only dream about that coming from Dwight. Still we can use those boards on both ends of the court and hope Dwight doesn't get bated by the media so often. His mouth is one of his biggest enemies. 

That is true.

On 5/30/2017 at 7:56 AM, Thomas said:

Biyombo banked seventeen million for six points and seven rebounds a game this year so Dwight's salary doesn't sound quite as horrid compared to that. Dwight averaged over thirteen and twelve with a PER of over twenty. That one playoff series or really two or three games last year by Biyombo is indeed what Dwight's role is heading towards, a lot of convincing for him to understand that but a few touches will help with that some.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6427/bismack-biyombo

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/2384/dwight-howard

Yeah, that's his best bet. In a perfect world, I'd love for him to be like Elton Brand during his time in ATL. He adapted well to Bud's scheme and didn't cause a headline.

On 5/28/2017 at 3:52 PM, JTB said:

Perhaps I'm too optimistic for the stubborn ones on this board but I believe Dwight was only doing what was asked of him by bud and staff this season.

I do NOT believe bud and staff asked him to fully commit to screen & rolling to the basket only. I believe this season with bud having extra duties as president, Howard was probably promised a mixture of post ups & a few jump shots here and there.

however moving on I believe now that bud is a full time coach again he's going to find a way to persuade Howard to commit to full time hard picks and rolls to the basket ONLY as it's truly beneficial to the team and to Howard being relevant at all times throughout the game .

 

bud will show Howard that good screens and hard rolls to the basket will get him back to an all star status or close to it. Howard can avg 17 or 18 pts just by rolling hard off good picks he sets and he can set good picks as long as he commits. I say howard will commit to this style of play cause he will see the benefit he makes and the outcome will be much greater.

I love Dwight but it only gets only downhill from here. I believe he did what is asked but he showed nothing in his game the past few years post prime that shows me he got anything offer besides rebounding.

You look at guys like Marc Gasol (same age as Dwight), he was a traditional center but he extended his range shooting. Meanwhile, Dwight he's the same guy he's always been, he just can't jump out of the gym like he used to. He never evolved. At this point, he just need to have a role like Biyumbo did in TOR a year ago.

On 5/28/2017 at 8:49 AM, benhillboy said:

I'm pretty sure there's been a muzzle placed on Heinsohn.  If allowed he go all the way in on Al.  

The man shot 6 FTs the whole series and allowed not one, not two, but three SFs on his team to tally more boards and shoot a higher percentage from the field.  It speaks highly of the toughness the rest of the team showed when their highest paid player has seemingly embraced his soft label.  I think he's positioning himself already for the next chapter in his life.  Assistant Treasurer of the D.R. or some sh$t.

Good to know local Boston media doesn't gloss over his poor play like Big Brother in Bristol.  Versus the Hawks, with an Ugly Anna reference for good measure.  I think the last guy is talking to Supes directly:

http://www.csnne.com/video/mike-felger-tommy-heinsohn-warned-us-al-horford-was-not-good

 

My gosh Boston media is no joke. I wish had guys that talked like Felger. 92.9 and AJC don't push the limits.

10 hours ago, Alex said:

I just don't see Schlenk willing to part ways with draft picks.  I guess only time will tell, but based on his comments I just don't see him wanting to trade away picks right now.  I suppose that begs the question as to what is more important to him?  His draft picks or being able to cut bait with one or two bad contracts presumably Dwight and Bazemore.

He may have to use the Stretch Provision on Dwight. I think he could move Bazemore with a pick or in exchange for a bad contract. I definitely don't see him trading picks. Only way I could see it happening is if it was a situation like LeBron returning to CLE where CLE FO traded Jack, Zeller and a pick to clear space for LeBron to sign. 

11 hours ago, terrellgroup said:

 

 

How much a player is getting paid , has nothing to do with being legitimate starter. Howard maybe here another year or so, but he is definitely not the future.

 

The Hawks future is Dennis and prince, at least for right now.

 

If we do resign Sap, he is still not your future. Milsap is your right now, hell isnt he like 30 plus.

 

Like I said in my post, about me being a GM and what I would do.

If you resign Sap you better have a legit 2 guard to sign with him , like a trade for Derozan , or Butler. If you not seriously upgrading the 2 position, why resign him? That makes no sense

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I assume Bud's and Ressler's way of thinking is Dennis, Hardaway and Prince can be their Big 3 while Millsap gradually falls back to his natural 3rd option role. 

14 hours ago, Alex said:

I hope the days of bending over for the Spurs are over.  Granted it was only one deal, but it's a bad precedent to set.  I think this is going to be a very long and boring off season for us.  Millsap walks like most of us know.  Schlenk doesn't want bad contracts, but neither do most GMs.  Which is why Baze and Howard are back.  To me all signs point to being very methodical in the draft and free agent signings only to fill out the roster.  He's going to see what he has in the upcoming season and go from there.  I will save him the trouble and let him know what he has...an erratic point guard who has potential who was the only reason the Hawks didn't get swept in the playoffs.  Prince is an emerging young kid who quite possibly played his best ball in the playoffs.  Other than that you got nothing, but a ton of work ahead of you, Mr. Schlenk.

Maybe Schlenk could flip Baze for other another bad contract like Deng's. 

Deng said he's now out of position playing SF, better off playing PF like he did in MIA and a trade would clear a possible PF logjam in LA.

Meanwhile Baze could be the vet SG off the bench in LA since Young should opt out and chase the money. I'm sure Walton is familiar with Baze since he coached with the LA D League team while Baze was in LA. 

On 5/29/2017 at 1:23 AM, JTB said:

By now you've heard about all the cp3 to Spurs rumors this summer, well the rumor in my opinion seems legit and something the Spurs will try to make happen but to do this they must unload salary as it's the only way possible for them to pick up cp3 and give him the money he would command.

so I bring up our Hawks being that we've done business before with the Spurs  (splitter) and because of Buds ties to their franchise I'm thinking our new GM is going to get a phone call from the Spurs this summer about unloading a few of their players to make this happen and unlike last time these players have a bit more quality. 

The players I'm seeing that's likely going to be dealt is Danny Green & Patty Mills if the Spurs are going to make this happen  .simi if the Hawks could possibly land one of two green or mills or both would that satisfy you as a Hawks fan? Or do you feel like we are just doing the Spurs a favor again?

The SA-ATL pipeline may end with Schlenk so taking on salary may not even be an option. If he was to deal with SA, Mills will be an overpaid FA and I wouldn't want Green - he can't create his own shot and he's about to enter his 30s. If I was ATL, I wouldn't take anyone over the age of 27 especially from SA. It's just like the Pats, if the Pats let you go something is wrong. 

On 5/25/2017 at 4:47 PM, KB21 said:

Just looking at Draft Express's 2018 mock draft, these are the top 14 picks at this time:

1.  Luka Doncic, SG, Real Madrid

2.  Michael Porter, SF/PF, HS Senior

3.  DeAndre Ayton, C, HS Senior

4.  Mohamed Bamba, PF, HS Senior

5.  Robert Williams, PF, Texas A&M, sophomore

6.  Miles Bridges, SF/PF, Michigan State, sophomore

7.  Wendell Carter, PF, HS Senior

8.  Collin Sexton, PG, HS Senior

9.  Jaren Jackson, PF/C, HS Senior

10.  Isaac Bonga, SF, Frankfurt (International)

11.  Trevon Duval, PG, HS Senior

12.  Lonnie Walker, SG, HS Senior

13.  Mitchell Robinson, C, HS Senior

14.  Troy Brown, SG, HS Senior

So, who is the sure fire, can't miss star prospect in this group?  Who is the next Stephen Curry from this group?  Hell, we don't even know if most of these guys can even play at the college level yet, but we want to tank out to get them.  It just goes against all logic to even desire this.

Doncic is getting a lot of hype. 

On 5/25/2017 at 3:54 PM, NBASupes said:

That's why trades like D. Carroll , C. Joseph +#23 for Dwight is legit for us. 

That's why even trades where all we get is a backup shooter like Moore for Bazemore is good. We need to only invest in good contracts till you get your guys and even then, good contracts. 

 

I  like this guy already. He is saying the right thing, just hope he does the right thing. 

Toronto is going to resign Ibaka. He's their guy at C. 

7 hours ago, AUhawksfan said:

We have to be realistic.  We already know that GMs around the league wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for Dwight and I doubt someone will get duped into taking Baze's contract.

I am curious to see how the draft goes since he is big on the scouting side.  I think the negotiation with Millsap will be the first big test.

Will Ressler let him do his job or be too hands on like Dolan?

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Color me doubtful he gets it, and you can't comp him off of Bazemore as why. He's sometimes 3 and no D, and is athletic.

Last summer the Nets offered Allen Crabbe a deal starting at 18 mil a year last year and they just had the pick swap this past season. This upcoming season Nets don't have a pick and need to win as much as possible to prevent gifting Boston a top 3 pick for the third consecutive year.

Crabbe is 3 and D just like Hardaway. Atkinson coached Hardaway. They already talking about giving Porter the max, I'm sure they'll offer Hardaway the max to try to pry him from ATL since now offering Crabbe the max didn't work.

49 minutes ago, DBac said:

Looks like a good choice. I'm glad he comes from the Warriors, maybe he will get us some shooters around Dennis and Dwight.

Around Dennis...