OGRat

Quote: Just keepin' it reel. The Heat have 3 things that Hawks did not have at the beginning of their rebuild: 1. Championship Coach 2. Top 5 NBA talent when healthy (Wade) 3. Multi year allstar who is still in prime / Marion at 29 You call that a rebuild ? The Heat's house just needs a room redone..........the Hawks tore the whole thing down and started over. Good points, but we did have JT, GROB, Shareef and Ratliff. Granted the house was not pretty, but the contractor(coach) stunk. We could have renovated a few rooms or finished the basement instead of demolishing the whole house. I believe we could have gotten more for the pieces we had.

Quote: I believe it was supposed to be a 5-yr. plan, with the goal being 50 wins next season. Anything less, and he's gone next season. Woodson's time is up, Knight will probably get one more year. I did not like the long journey. Does it have to take 5 years before the team is respectable enough for fans to want to buy tickets? Pat Riley does not seem to think so: ''It's time to start over again,'' said Riley, who referred to the Feb. 6 trade of Shaquille O'Neal as the start of a two-year retooling process that could leave the Heat with major salary-cap space in the summer of 2009. Miami Herald How long did it take Portland to catch up to us?

Quote: It too bad for Horford that he is surrounded by players that only know losing. If he playing with players that knew winning. He would be a lock for ROY,probably be on one of the all-defensive teams, and most importantly be in the playoffs. Not to mention his coach forgets him on the bench.

Quote: Quote: It is an effective strategy to try to force a bigger buyout or to win a legal battle by attrition but it is also one that is deliberately geared toward wrecking the team in the interim. I want my owner to love his team - not trash it deliberately. Point of fact is that it's not "his team" and he shouldn't act that way in a winner take all court battle, imo. I hear you about loving the team, but I'd rather have an owner that didn't pee on my head and tell me it's raining. If you really love something that you are hurting... set it free, right? These guys don't love the Hawks, AHF. They are too stupid to actually understand the game enough to love it. I think that has been proven. It doesn't get worse than this. Belkin simply could do no worse. So, in my mind, the only chance is with change. Obama style. We need sweeping changes. Belkin could be a catalyst for that change. A - It can't get worse. B - Belkin would probably want to sell the team after all of this, which would be good. C - Even if he doesn't sell, refer to A. I disagree. It can get worse if a money hungry owner with no ties to the city or love for the team gets full control and opts to move the team to another market because he thinks he could make more money there.

Quote: I believe it was supposed to be a 5-yr. plan, with the goal being 50 wins next season. Anything less, and he's gone next season. Woodson's time is up, Knight will probably get one more year. Didn't BK come out at the beginning of the season and say that the rebuilding was done? I am not a fan of the concept of rebuilding. I more favor an ongoing management approach similar to what Detroit has used. They drafted Milicic with plans for the future, but they were not planning to suck until he was ready. The draft was not the only source of talent. They used FA'cy and trades to fill their team's holes.

A more recent movie that I had low expectations for, but took my kids to was The Golden Compass. Not sure if it rates sci-fi, but it is in the same category as Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. I'm looking forward to GCII.

I messed my wrist up once. I rested it a week or so, and it felt better. However, it did not take much to reinjure it. It took me more than a month to get to the point I could shoot again. I hope they are just being cautious with the injury.

Quote: I agree that both BK and Woody won't be back NEXT year, but Gearon won't allow the firing of Woody this season beacause, in a perverse sense, the firing makes Gearon look bad. My point is that Gearon backed himself into a corner by not going along w/ his GM. When you assume you are the smartest guy in the building, and you aren't, this is exactly what happens. Gearon should have listened to BK when Woody's firing came up. Now, we the fans and the players, are suffering from Gearon's ego. Fire them both at the same time.

Is Dale Davis still available?

Quote: Frankly, though, we are tanking so badly that I don't think we have to worry about it. Phoenix will be happy if we miss.

Quote: Quote: in the middle of a playoff hunt before? Is this precedented? This team hasn't quit. tHEY ARE TRYING TO FIND THEMSELVES. I don't think they have quit, but they play tired. Woody finally decided to give Salim good minutes tonight, but we need another big in the rotation.

First of all, I will support this team as far as they go, but I must say that making the playoffs without a chance of really competing does not excite me much at all. Sure, the Hawks could end the streak, and the ASG get to sell a few more tickets this year, but, as bad as the East is this year, making the playoffs should have been the given. With the type of performances we've been seeing lately, the team will get beat like a drum in the first round.

Quote: What has he done to the ASG? Fight for some extra cash? Wow. What an idiot he is, trying to maximize his interests. This Belkin hysteria is like a good folk story, it gets better and better. He gets more evil every time the story gets told. All I know is he was against giving up so much for JJ. He felt like we could get him for less because Sarver was a cheap bastard. Turns out Sarver sells 1st round picks and auctions off key talent due to luxury tax worries so Belkin looks smart. He wasnt against JJ, just that BK was dropping his pants around his ankles. Yeah, BK has been so damn smart, we should trust he was making a great deal right? How could Belkin ever question BK? The other fact is that Belkin has never stated his side in public. So, all the cutting payroll stuff was from the ASG. They went public with a position that he was against the JJ deal when I have since learned that he was for the JJ deal but against sending TWO #1 picks. He knew Sarver and he knew that he wasn't paying the tax. So he felt we could get him for less. What an evil guy. He seems more nimble to me, more on the ball than the ASG. Naw, we wouldnt want that would we? Oh, and for all the people worried about him moving the team we have a thing called a lease in place. He can't move the team if he wanted. Regardless of how you feel about the JJ trade, Belkin went against the agreed upon decision making process. If his partners could not trust him to follow specifically defined decision process, how far are you willing to trust him? How far would a trading partner be willing to trust him? How far would a FA signee be willing to trust him? Sorry. I'll pass. Once you lose your credibility, it takes a lot to get it back. The stakes in the NBA are often too high to take on additional risk.

Quote: You dont trust Belkin. But, you trust the ASG? We have one party that has already proven to be lousy and another party that we dont know about. Hmmm. I'll take the one I don't know. The worst he could be is lousy like what we have now. If he can do what he's done to the ASG, what else is he capable of? While the ASG has been lousy, at least we don't have to worry about them trying to move the franchise.

I don't trust Belkin.

Quote: That is my point. That is what you guys are doing with the whole CP3/M-Williams and Roy/S-Willams. You guys say CP3 (a lie because it was Deron at the time. lol).... But you claim to have wanted CP3 over Marvin because we need a PG. Well, how can you next year want Roy when we need a Big or PG??? I assume you are generalizing, but, for the record, I wanted Deron and still would be happy with that pick over Marvin. My point is that I evaluated Deron to be better for the team based on need and the talent available. I still believe Deron will be better than CP3 for the long run because of size and durability. Also, for the record, there were a lot of ppl on here that wanted CP3. Not many of us thought it was good for the team to have another SF, especially when he was not clearly better than the PGs available. In fact, discussion eventually evolved to "which PG". Did you dig out the "which PG" poll that was conducted back then? I only fault BK for his judgement that MW and SW were best for the team when we clearly did not need a SF and the PGs available were evaluated just as talented as the SF he drafted. Hell, MW almost laid an egg for his tryout with the Hawks. So what was his talent evaluation based on? Quote: Just my point as fans we always claim we wanted the NOW start player we missed out on. NO BODY WANTED CP3 ON THIS BOARD. I bet if I go back to the 2006 draft I will find maybe 1% who may have wanted Roy at the time. Stop blame the GM for making mistakes when you too did the same thing. Atleast he admit his mistake by trying to do something about it. Yes, but he is the one with the title and the access to the players to get the pick right. And again, for the record, I wanted Foye b/c of Roy's health issues. Shelden was never in my consideration. I would have gone after a C via trade. When BK drafted Shelden I wondered about the justification. In general, I don't think the majority of us would have made the same pick. And with the Shelden pick, he didn't even do the homework of evaluating other potential players. As a fan, I don't know what went on behind the scenes, but I don't think he earned his money with that draft. OG

How come he can't be honorable like Skiles and resign?

Look Bro.... You can't give him credit for drafting the concensus best player over need for one draft and then give him a "Let" for drafting for need over the concensus best player in another. He was supposed to evaluate the talent available and get what was best for the team. All I am saying is that he didn't do that. OG

How do you evaluate individual components of this whole Hawks mess. The ownership is a mess==> the decision making is a mess==> the team is a mess I find it difficult to evaluate Billy b/c I'm not sure how many deals the ASG nixed. I do know that he has made some draft mistakes that even I would not have made. Now Woody.... he shows why he should be fired almost every game. I used to blame BK for not giving him the players needed to be successful, but I no longer feel that way. I think that he lacks the ability to manage in game situations. Seems that even BK realized Woody's limitations, but could not fire him b/c of ASG. OG

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: This is a little bit much. I mean your feeding off everyones frustration. He is not the worst in history, but he is the worst here since I have been a Hawks fan. Tarkanian was a horrible coach. I voted yes but honestly should have voted "maybe" which is almost as bad. Has any coach in NBA history had a worse winning % with as many games or more as Woody's coached? Maybe so, I just don't know one way or the other. This doesn't precisely answer your question but: Worst winning percentages (all-time; min. 200 games coached) Coach Sport Pct. Sidney Lowe NBA .257 Tim Floyd NBA .280 Curt Fraser NHL .285 Bobby Wallace MLB .287 Ron Rothstein NBA .296 Woody clocks in at an auspicious .306. Anyone know??? I voted maybe. I was trying to think of Sidney Lowe.

A happy hour to commisserate and drown our sorrows. Hell, I'd even buy Woodson a drink. I'd dare him to drink it though- 1 part rum, 2 parts strychnine.

I don't think it all falls on Shaq although he does play a part. Marion was a key to Phx's success b/c he was one of the few on that team that played defense. Diaw is a poor replacement for the Matrix, and he also seems to limit Hill's game. Hill is a much better offensive weapon than Diaw and Diaw limits his touches. They can't both play the same role of secondary distributor. Lastly, Shaq does clog the middle on offense and probably limits all of the drives to the basket. Wasn't this an issue when he was with the Lakers?

Guys, Would someone please update me on the ownership situation? It seems like a long time since I've seen anything (Belkin not being able to buy other owners out), and I hope I didn't miss something. Was thinking there should have been some new development since Belkin lost in court. Thanks, OG