marco102

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Dude was the king of niks like Julio but he ain't Julio

Kel'el Ware injury

JJ shouldn't be your rule when he's the exception. Cam Reddish, Bamba, and many others are the rule. 

His effort wanes. He will have good halves and even good overall games then you wonder where he is the entire game next. Just lacks consistency and a lot of times, it's possession by possession. 

He is talented. He more gifted than the guy I compare him to, Damian Jones but Ware is weaker than Jones and he shy away from physicality. He likes to operate in space like Jones.

He's not raw. Missi is raw. Ware got a skill set. He just ain't good at basketball. 

He's got skills, but he's raw. He doesn't know when to do certain things and his timing is off in a lot of actions to me that's raw and can get better with repetition.

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Any scouting report on Ware does not mention health issues with foot and ankle niks, consistency issues, effort and motor issues is not being serious. That's a big part of why he's not in the top 30 with Theathletic.com or DX and GMs as well as scouts are down on him. They didn't even talk about his poor screening which is really why many teams are down him. He's probably a lock to be a 2nd rounder.

Don't be shocked if Kalkbrenner goes higher than him. After Clingan and Edey, the only developmental guy worthy of a 1st is Missi and he's super raw but the personality and traits are legit. He just gotta get a lot better at basketball. Only been playing for 3 years. 

I can't wait for the combine to see who really moves up the board as a center. The center class is due for a breakout at the combine. 

What foot issues do you keep talking about? I haven't read or seen videos about that. You should read the entire article he tackles a lot the other stuff. I just took snippets out. 

I like Ware. People may go ahead of him, but I believe he'll be one of the better bigs out of this class.  He just has to put it together. 

The effort thing is hit or miss.  

People said Jalen Johnson had effort and motor issues as well, but he's worked out fine.

Cam Reddish they said the same. He's still in the NBA but never reached his potential. 

I've seen Ware's effort improve from last season.  A lot of the effort issues last year dealt with playing a bit out of position from what I've read up on.  Indiana fans on Reddit says they weren't disappointed in his effort from game to game. From time to time he doesn't always play at 100%, but most said that was due to being raw.

He sets terrible screens when he's trying to slip the screen, but I've seen several instances of him setting good screens. I think most of the screening issues are because he's just raw and young.

There are legit issues with him, but there are pretty much legit issues with any big. I like potential and I see him being a very serviceable started in the next three years and really good after that. 

A very good and fair write up (scouting report) on Kel'el Ware. 

https://open.substack.com/pub/edemirnba/p/kelel-ware-scouting-report?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

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Before his freshman year, Ware had a disappointing outing at the FIBA Americas Under-18 Championship. This was followed up with a year of ups and downs in a limited role at Oregon. Ware showed that he wanted to bet on himself and improve by committing to Coach Woodson and the Indiana Hoosiers.

The Big Ten is known as a big man’s league, and one of the knocks Ware faced during his freshman campaign was the lack of physicality and an inconsistent motor, making a return to school a better choice in terms of his NBA future.

However, a lot has changed since he became a Hoosier, as he completed his sophomore campaign with Big Ten All-Defensive Team and Second-team All-Big Ten selections. His impact on both ends has enough areas that are translatable to the role he’ll fulfill in the NBA, which is the primary focus of this scouting report.

Physical Profile

At seven feet, Ware stands out with his mobility. He’s light-footed and floats around the court. It all looks natural as his size and length allow him to serve as a defensive presence in the interior. While he’s at 242 pounds, it’s noteworthy that he gained over 30 pounds in his two years of college.

Continuing to fill out his frame is something we’ll see in the upcoming years, as he still needs to get stronger to fulfill his defensive potential. His verticality allows him to rise above all his opponents, making him an efficient rebounder and shot-blocker.

Ware does have stiff hips, causing him to struggle in space against quicker opponents. While his length makes up for most of the deficiencies, this is an area an NBA decision-maker has to keep in mind.

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Defense

Having a reliable pick-and-roll defender at center is a must-have to play winning basketball at the NBA level. That’s an area where Ware can impact teams with his mobility and verticality. At 1.9 blocks per game, Ware shows that he can block shots at the rim. However, that’s not what his primary value should be if he wants to be a difference-maker for a team.

A positive in his profile is that Ware is willing to go over screens more often than not, while the NBA shows a trend of more drop coverage of big men. Another positive is that he keeps his feet moving while reading what the ball handler is going to do, with the first play being a good example.

An important area of development is that he’s too reactionary at times when he’s getting attacked by the ball handler, with the last two plays being examples. In the first of two, Ware bites on the hesitation move while the driving lane to the rim is wide open. His instincts should have led to Ware positioning himself at 0 to 90 degrees from the ball handler, rather than the 180 degrees he was located at, which led to the wide-open lay-up finish. Improvement in recognizing angles is a must-have for Ware.

Ware shows that his defensive footwork led to him giving up the driving lane to the ball handler. The possession starts badly due to the amount of space between the screener and himself. He still decided to go over, leading to him placing his pivot foot too far out after the ball handler switched onto him by utilizing the ball screen. Despite this, Ware shows his quickness and puts himself in a position to block the shot from behind, but it doesn’t take away the fact that his decision-making is a work in progress.

 

 

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Offense

Despite most of his looks being near the rim, Ware got up to almost 16 points per game this season. Most of it is due to his great touch at the rim, which led to him being a 74.1% rim finisher, without even taking into account that he averages more than two dunks per game.

At the NBA level, his production will mostly rely on him serving as a play-finisher by leveraging his verticality and screening actions in the interior. This is a must-have for today’s NBA center with most NBA teams not willing to sacrifice much of their field goal attempts for dunker-spot finishers—mostly to protect their offensive rating by ensuring they take enough threes.

 

Another area for Ware to impact his team on offense is his value as a rebounder. At 9.9 rebounds per game, Ware ensured that he got more than two offensive boards per game, mostly due to his excellent positioning while chasing second-chance opportunities.

Ware doesn’t have the frame to bang with big bodies in the interior, but his quickness and mobility make up for most of it, as he’s looking to out-position his opponent, rather than outpowering them and pick up unnecessary fouls. The first play below is one of the examples.

The faster-paced NBA game does not require much action on the offensive glass, due to teams preferring to get back on defense more often than not. However, in situational plays, such as in late-game situations, Ware’s activity on the glass will be a value-riser in terms of him generating second-chance opportunities for himself and his teammates.

 

One of the areas of development in Ware’s profile is his shooting. Despite him shooting 42.5% on 40 attempts per game this season, an NBA decision-maker should look past the good numbers to see what’s still in need of development.

Due to his role, Ware is mostly used in the interior instead of utilizing his mobility on the perimeter. On an NBA floor, he’ll likely be asked to shoot threes on a higher volume than the 1.3 attempts per game he had this season.

To protect a team’s offensive rating, Ware’s inconsistent jumper will likely lead to him having to play G League developmental minutes before being a reliable piece in his team’s rotation. A positive in his shooting potential is that as a pick-and-pop threat, Ware is good at making himself the forgotten man due to timely screening actions.

The most important area of development in his jumper is Ware not setting his feet properly. He doesn’t bend his knees far enough to power up in a consistent and quick pattern before his release. The shooting form itself looks good as he has a high release point, but the preparation to get to his jumper is what Ware has to improve at the next level.

 

With the NBA’s trend of using big men as playmaking hubs, Ware has to improve in terms of serving as one via handoffs. One of the positives is that he’s a good enough manipulator to sell the defense that he’ll drop the pass off at all times, with the first play being an example. An area of development is his decision-making out of those sequences, with him having to attack the rim in the first play, and not bail the defense out with the jumper.

Ware’s passing is one of the unique selling points in his profile. Despite the negative assist (63) to turnover (74) ratio, his ability to serve as a ball-mover and playmaker will be something for him to hang his hat on.

In terms of his long-term potential, two positives in his passing make it feasible that he’ll improve in the upcoming years: composure and not being afraid of high-risk, high-reward passes.

 

 

 

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NBA Draft Projection

An NBA franchise is buying potential in Ware’s profile. His physical tools are absolute value-risers with his mobility and verticality being the two positives. However, in terms of the intangibles, he has to improve his decision-making and defensive footwork via more reps at the next level.

With Ware not turning 21 until after Eastern in the next NBA season, he’s still young for a sophomore. An NBA team that values age will see this as a positive. Ware’s fearlessness combined with his betting on himself by joining a major program in a big-men-heavy Big Ten shows the confidence he has in himself and his development.

His help defense and potential to be a versatile pick-and-roll defender combined with Ware’s passing and developing jumper could make him a solid starter for years to come. Ware has to improve these areas as a natural result of his young age, which makes it likely he’ll play G League minutes in the first two years of his NBA career.

Based on the pros and cons mentioned in this scouting report, I project Ware to be a lock for the top 20 of the 2024 NBA Draft, with him being able to enter the lottery based on how he’ll perform during team workouts and at the NBA Draft Combine.

 

 

 

I like Ware because I see him fitting nicely in the modern NBA.  He has a good offensive and defensive skillset. He won't be ready day one, but that doesn't mean he can't play.  He's a good defender, good rebounder, and potentially good stretch big.  In a draft like this, I'd take that all day.

@NBASupes You think ultimately that Ware will be a bust? 

13 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Effort

Motor

Poor screening

Injury concerns

Bulk

 

Out of all of these, bulk might be the only one feasible. 

 

Edey is a freak athlete for his size. Just because you don't acknowledge it doesn't mean it's not true

I agree with @KB21 here.  Poor screening can be coached.  What injury concerns has he had this year besides the ankle?  Bulk? he's pretty good size now at 7'0" 240 lbs.  Isn't that bigger than Capela as far as bulk?  

Motor and Effort are a concern, but he's improved those from last year.  Matter of fact he's improved a ton from last year which is why I'm high on him. 

I'm not low on Eddy just haven't really paid him any attention.  I watched Ware and he has something that I like (pause ). Can't really describe it, but the way he moves and defends made me really like him as a prospect.  The offensive upside and  has some good passing chops, makes him seem like a good fit with the team. 

38 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

My earlier post was before I had more prospects on the BB. 

My draft thread was this draft is weaker than the previous drafts. I didn't even look at upperclassmen yet. That's why this Edey thread came in February 

That's fine.  We can agree to disagree that he's a second round talent. He's one of the most talented big men in this draft of course that doesn't mean he will be the best but from a tools and skills stand point, I'd take him with the Sacramento pick if that conveys. If he's there in the second round, I'd take him there as well. 

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You keep saying that, stop saying that ....THAT CANNOT BE A REAL THING THIS OFFSEASON.  Or it's another failed offseason.

We went into last offseason expecting changes: traded JC as a salary dump, signed Wes, drafted Kobe - - what we do this offseason, can't be along the same lines.

Lol don't blame me. Like you are with Ressler and the tax, they got to show.me before I start to believe again.

3 hours ago, Packfill said:

Ware and Missi are talented but need substantial development. I doubt either will crack an NBA rotation for at least a year and a half, and more likely two years, after being drafted. 

I agree. If no moves are made, he just fits the timeline. He can play with OO and Capela may still be around to show him the ropes. To me, he will be a Bruno replacement if no moves are made. The talent is undeniable just has to out it together.

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Both honestly should be 2nd rounders. Missi further away but he's also more likely to reach his potential. 

This contradicts you earlier post on Ware.

My favorite center is Kel'el Ware.  He has a lot to work on as far a feel for the game. motor and screening. 

To me he's the most talented center in this draft.  I'm looking for a two way center and he fits that mold better than any center in this draft in my opinion.

He can shoot, defend, and moves well.

Lol...I'm glad this season is done!  Hopefully, the Kings win and we get their pick.

Draft Cody Williams and Ke'lel Ware.

And trade the players who don't want to be here.

I really rooted for the Hawks tonight, but this is best for our future. We weren't winning any championships this year.

25 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

sorry @marco102.....

You're not sorry.

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Oooh, I can always go for some MLP action.  Some My Little Pony for @marco102.  Let him get in touch with his inner Bro-nnie (which apparently is a thing).

A pro-Celtics pic always causes indigestion for the user.  Or you could go really deep and dig up a famous Hawks draft failure or a Speedy Claxton tribute.

All in all, you got options.  Thanks for the consult.  I'll send you a bill.  Or you can just send me a blank check and I'll handle the rest. 

I can always go with the my little pony, but I will block @bleachkit if he makes me go pro Celtics!  I have some humanity man! 

35 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Give me him over a guy like Thybulle who, to me, is a one trick pony defensively. 

Done!

@bleachkit Trae's at 37.3% so what's my new profile picture?

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Well then don't expect this team to rapidly improve.

The Hawks need to get out of the mindset that all of our young players are going to develop into something special. You don't trade them for mid level talent. You trade them for star talent.

I'm not talking about the talent, I'm talking about roster construction.  You need a decent starting caliber PF, unless you somehow are keeping Clint and OO and KATs your PF? 

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

KAT being #7 all time in true shooting %, shows just how underrated that guy is.

If the T-Wolves blink this summer concerning the Luxury Tax, ATL better snatch him up.

 

And us coveting Jalen Johnson CANNOT be the reason why we don't make a deal for him.

Yes, it should be because who's our starting PF if you let Jalen go? You also have to look at this from a roster construction standpoint. I'm willing to part with Murray and filler for KAT.  That Filler shouldn't no include Jalen and at this point not Hunter either. 

With the way Bae and Dre are playing as of late, I'm not as interested in him.  However, the Hawks should consider him for off season addition to bump up the bench.

8 minutes ago, Mikey said:

They’ve had this interest dating back to him being in the draft. For the star they are trying to get in the summer they are gonna need dyson type player starting at the 2 

KAT

On 1/22/2024 at 2:20 PM, marco102 said:

Yeah, I'll believe we'll make a big trade once it actually happens. Until then it's just silly season as they say.

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

I have yet to see a Hawks fan who really wants him.

I haven't either. I was more responding to woj's "report".

19 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

If Quin truly said no to trading DJ, I am good with knowing that.

Reaves aint it at all. 

Why does anyone value him? His defense is worst than Trae's.  Trae's been adequate this season. I'm referring to previous seasons.