marco102

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Someone will offer a lot more than that.   This is a 7'3" SF with great skills making $4 million for 2 years with a team option for another and then restricted free agency (i think).   I mean this may be the best value in the whole league for a guy who may be all star level for years.   They aren't giving him up for picks.   

So would you trade real value for him?  That's what it will take.   Probably Prince. 

That's a link to Dennis' stats.  Trade Dennis ?   maybe.

Uhh since you're twisting my arm, I'd give up Prince.   PG's are too important in the league at the moment. 

5 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Phil really needs to retire before he makes himself look even more foolish.

New York is where young players careers go to die.  If the Hawks can get Porzingas for a few draft picks, they should do it. I hope old crazy Phil does it. 

1 minute ago, MaceCase said:

No. 

 

You're welcome.

Thanks man. I read it in one of the threads yesterday and didn't know if it was true or not. 

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

So would you trade Prince and a pick for Kristaps?

I'd trade picks and that's about it.  

A young team of Dennis, Prince, Butler and Kristaps would have my spider senses tingling.   I don't know how the Hawks could pull of both trades but if you mortgage the future for the next couple of drafts to get Butler and you get Kristaps. I'd say it's worth it. 

I was listening to NBA radio and apparently, Phil's had it with Porzingis and has made him available for trades?  I say let Millsap walk and bring in the kid.  I wonder what it would take to get him?

Is it true that if Millsap signs some where else the Hawks will get a trade exception for the amount of Millsap's first year salary?  Help please @JayBirdHawk .

I STILL can't fathom why anyone would want to go out West? At this point, any one with common sense knows it's easier to get to through LBJ and the Cavs.  Than Steph Curry, Durant, Klay, and the Warriors.  Why Paula?  Why?

2 hours ago, Dolfan23 said:

Forget Wall. What did Dennis do better than an average starter other than score? Defend? Run the floor and find the open man instead of looking for his own points? Drive and dish? Find Dwight early in the shot clock? Nope to all of the above. 

Some of you are so blinded by what he does well and the fact that he's a Hawks draft pick that you think he's among the better PGs. Sure he can score as well as all but about 3-4 of the top guys but that's all that he does well. Very soon he's going to get paid ridiculously because of the fact that he can drive and score so well but that's not enough to build a team around. 

I'm not even pro-tank and I even like Dennis a lot but I'm very aware that we won't be ready to make a real run at something without a lot more talent and we'll never get that talent if we are busy overpaying players on their 2nd contracts.

Maybe none of the top guards in this draft are as good as Schröder is now and maybe they're never going to be as good but what if they are? And what if they are good as rookies on a cheap contract and now we have 2-4 first and second year starting caliber players being paid peanuts and leaving us the cap room to go out and get a couple of max players*.

That is the kind of future that excites me. Last year we dealt Teague because we knew he'd cost a lot in FA if we kept him and we got a building block for the future who as a rookie was one of our best players in the playoffs.mI'm not saying lightning will strike twice but I'm confident that our front office knows how to draft based on what I saw last year. 

I don't even care if we miss the playoffs the next couple of seasons as long as we are young, drafting good players and spending our FA money smartly. 

*Assuming we can dump Dwight and/or Baze along with future picks while getting back salary dump expiring contracts. Plus not re-signing Sap or ThJr. 

I think all of us who are supporting Dennis are saying he is ONLY 23!  So why can't he continue to improve like the supposed  draft picks you guys are clamoring for.  Dennis' contract at the moment is a steal.  He's making $10 million per year less than the max and hopefully he continues to improve.  

I'm going to defend him not matter what you say.  Point blank simple.  Last year, on Hawk's terrible offensive team, he was the second best player as a first year starter.  Could he be better at a lot of things? Hell Yeah!  If he's playing at his current level at 25 or 26 then we can have the discussion about trading him for draft picks.

If the Warriors would have traded Steph Curry after three years, they wouldn't be the Warriors.  No one can argue with that!

7 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Who's cherry picking? My point isn't even about Wall it's about Dennis. Someone else brought Wall up and I needed to remind folks just how much better he makes his teammates vs Dennis' ability to do so. You think Dennis is making Jason Smith or Gortat (at this point) look like legit NBA bigs? 

I'm talking about Dennis' ability as a real PG to get his teammates the ball in position to score. If you honestly think Dennis is even average at that then I suggest you spend more time watching the top PGs who don't just drive past their man in attempt to only get a shot  for themselves. 

No what you are doing is saying the one thing we all know Wall is probably the best at ,getting assists, and comparing a 23 year old Dennis to him.  Wall was not that great his first couple of seasons was my point.  Yeah he had all those assists, but he was a turnover machine.  Point guards have to run a team.  Dennis  drove to the basket to score because what were the other options, besides Paul and Timmy (when he was hot)?  He's young and learning is my point.  If you surround Dennis with good shooters at every position, I guarantee, he will set them up better.  He's never played with a center like Dwight before and he struggled with the entry pass to the paint.  

I'm not saying Dennis is a top guard in the league, but he has potential to be a top 10 pt guard once he puts it all together.  I'm not willing to give that up for some draft pick who could turn out to be the next Kwame Brown. 

17 minutes ago, Dolfan23 said:

Seriously? Dennis in his career BEST season had 1.5 less apg than Wall in his WORST season. They're not even in the same stratosphere in terms of making their teammates better. Fyi Wall came into the league averaging over 8 apg and averages over 9 for his career. 

Drop that turnovers per game stat or assist to turnover stat too.  Also, drop those shooting percentages.  Don't just cherry pick his best stats. 

With PG13 being available, there may be an entire different plan brewing in the front office.

Ressler wants those increase ticket sales.

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

1.  Al Horford

2.  PG will probably getting a max contract even if he sits out the year.   The nba has changed.  

3. Indy with PG exited first round this year.   Why will the Hawks with PG suddenly contend?

 

Better coach....

22 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I want the 2020 or 2021 to be similar to what we see in Philly right now. I want 2023-24 to be Golden State right now. 

We all could be dead.

14 minutes ago, hazer said:

Me too, I don't think they're getting it. Escape Blaze's contract, then PG13 bolts to Lakers and Hawks are massively freed up with enough money to make some waves. As I always say: If you don't ask, the answer is always no. Make the offer, Colonel!

That's why insisted Baze be a part of it.  It also gives us a WAYYYYY better chance of beating Cleveland for just one year.  You don't know if LBJ won't slow down a bit.  I just want the Hawks to get a team together that will put up a fight against Cleveland.

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I got some magic beans for any who would accept PHI's offer.  I'll take your house in exchange.

I know, I know.  But they're maaagic beans.

I wish i could like this 10 times.  They act like this magical pick has proven itself.  Dennis went for 25 pts and 8 assists in the playoffs.   It's amazing how we undervalue our own talent.

2 minutes ago, BigDog90 said:

True. I think there's teams out there that are bold that can offer better packages. I'm sure a team like Indy would rather not add bad contracts with picks that won't have a chance to be #1.

If PG is leaving, their tanking.  Taking on Baze's contract won't stop the tank.

If you're getting two first round picks and a reasonable contract (Baze's is reasonable if you consider they won't have any other big free agents), then it's  a very good deal.

If the Hawks get to the finals, who's to say that PG13 won't resign.  I'm all for get a star level player, just for one year. PG13 in Bud's system could be awesome. 

1 minute ago, BigDog90 said:

They wouldn't want Baze. They'd want Prince if anything. 

They'd want the drafty picks.  Right now PG is damn near untradeable.  You'll have to match Salaries and Baze's salary matches up with Paul's.

If they take Baze,  then give them Cleveland and Minnesota's first round pick.  Resign Paul.  We could be the 2nd best team in the east who knows, may be able to get to the finals.

These shooting charts may change some minds about players you like.  Some players I thought were great shooters have A LOT of deficiencies.  Especially some of the guys in the top 10.

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

They haven't tanked. They try to be good but suck at it. Their best slots have been in weak draft years

So if the Hawks tank as you suggest, what's to keep them from getting good slots in bad draft years?

26 minutes ago, CP61 said:

How many times do I have to say this on here? THE HAWKS ONLY HAVE 6 PLAYERS! Prince and Dennis are the only two guys of those to build around since two are on bad contracts, one didn't do much his rookie year (Bembry could be good but we don't know), and Ryan Kelly. 

As many times as you like, that's your opinion which I respect.  My point was, you said the Hawks didn't have a young core to build around and I gave you the young players they could build around.  It's not a super team, but it's a good young core.

The Hawks also have bird rights to the other players on the team which means if they so choose they can go over the cap to sign any of their free agents.   They could use the exceptions, which I believe add up to approximately $11.5 million, to sign some additional players (JJ ReddicK in my scenario above).   They aren't winning a championship soon and I hope they find a way to get some additional young talent on the team as you do. I just don't ever want to go back to the 13 win season.  That was a terrible display.  You just don't want to instill a culture of losing. 

1 minute ago, CP61 said:

I'm not suggesting the Hawks tank. I'm suggesting the Hawks stop building around 27+ year olds. I just want to draft some young talent and have our own core built here. I know all stars can be found in the 15-19 range, but I don't think the Hawks will make the playoffs next year unless they trade away the future for someone else's star. 

If the Hawks get a shooter in Free Agency, let's say a JJ Reddick, they'll make the playoffs because they have always been a good defensive team under Bud.  They will not get far, but they'll probably make it.  My point being is Dennis, Prince, and THjr are all 25 or under you could build around them.  Add Brembry in there, which a lot here do not give any credit, but the kid played tough defense and played very well off the ball considering he's a rookie, you have a solid young core.  We need to get some young bigs that can switch, pass, and play defense and a couple more pure shooters and the Hawks will be good to go.  

I don't see them challenging the Dubs, but you never know how some players development can turn them into all star fringe super star players.

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

c

I would puke if the C's got Butler.  The Boston Media would be even more unbearable.  Even if the Celtics get Butler, they still are not as good as the Cavs, so there's that.  Please Lawd don't let this happen.

1 hour ago, CP61 said:

The sixers are coming out of their tank with Ben Simmons, Joel Embiid, and probably Markell's Fultz. I would do ANYTHING to have that. We also have no momentum. We've taken a step backwards these last two years. This 10 years of playoffs peaked with that 1 seed and we have to start over now before we keep taking steps back and get to being an expensive, old lottery team as opposed to an improving, young one. 

Where to start?  Ben Simmons has not played one minute in the NBA.  Is he really that good or  are you buying into the hype?  He could not even take his LSU team to the NCAA tournament.  If you take an 18 LBJ or KD and put them on that team and guess what, LSU is in the tournament.  My point being, if he's some type of transcendent player you should see it at all levels.

Joel Embiid - As great as his approximately 30 games in the NBA have been, will he ever be healthy enough to play a full season?  To be a be a star  a player has to be available.

Markell Fultz - I'm not saying he won't be an Allstar, but we do not know how he will translate to the NBA. 

You can get a Justin Jackson and he could turn into the next PG13 (very very unlikely). My point is if you draft and develop these 15 - 19 picks into Allstars, you may be able to flip a few for a few lottery picks and that's how you get your high upside player without tanking. 

Dennis was  the 17th pick in his draft, looking back, would you not say he deserved to be a top 5 pick?  The players besides Mccullum, Giannis, and few others are complete duds.

12 minutes ago, sillent said:

(Sorry if this post has already been done)

Outside of the lottery picks my fav players are Harry Giles & Terrance Fergerson

19th pick: I would pick Harry Giles with the 19th pick. Just like I said Prince would be a DMC 2.0 I see Giles being a Paul Millsap 2.0 which would put him as a superstar because Paul's already an allstar. He may take a little longer to develop than Prince but with his size, ability, defense and intangibles I can see him guarding 1-5 on defense (when necessary & being super versatile on offense.

31st pick: I would pick Anzeis Pasecniks as the 31st pick for his size and versatility and if he can turn into anything like Portizingus we would have a steal and also 2 young high potential replacements in our bigs department. Both can shoot from the outside and will only get better in our system.

60th pick: I would not be mad at all if we got Kobi Simmons with this pick and I wouldn't be surprised if we found some untapped talent over seas. I almost would be surprised if Kobi Simmons was available at this pick.

 

With young stars in the making already on our squad PG: Dennis Schröder, SG: Tim Hardaway Jr??(If/Should be resigned) & SF: Taurean Prince, Giles & Pasecniks could be in the making of a team that could compete with GSW. Not to mention Dwight should be better acclimated, Paul if he stays will still be effective and Baze will be out for a redemption year to prove he deserves to be here/his pay. We still have Bembry & his shot should be improved and grant more pt. Malcom Delaney also has much to prove and should be more acclimated. We will/should probably keep Calderon and possibly Ilysova and Dunleavy (for his height,3's, can drive unlike Korver). Also Isaia Cordinier can be brought here if we feel like we can develop him better over here than overseas. 

WE ARE NOT THAT FAR OFF AS IT SEEMS TALENT WISE & NOW THAT OUR COACH CAN FOCUS ON COACHING AND WE HAVE A YEAR UNDER OUR BELT AS A PRETTY MUCH NEW CONSTRUCTED TEAM LAST YEAR(People Forget That) OUR CHEMISTRY AND OVERALL OUTLOOK CAN BE SKY HIGH & SURPRISE AS WE DID DURING THE 60 WIN SEASON. PEOPLE ALSO FORGET WE WERE ON PACE TO BE THE GOLDEN STATE OF THE EAST THAT YEAR & IF WE DRAFT & RETAIN PLAYERS CORRECTLY WE WILL BE BETTER THAN OUR PAST 60 WIN TEAM!!! At the very least contenders

 

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm, However, Harry Giles and Paul Millsap's skill-set are completely different. 

I can't just choose one so I'll give you a few scenarios!

#1. #19 - Justin Jackson - SG - He provides the length we need at the shooting guard position and he allows the hawks to be super flexible (he has ability to play 2/3/and small ball 4).  He's everything the new GM wants in a player.   I'm not sure if he'll be available, but if so hopefully the Hawks select him. 

    #31 - Give me  Jordan Bell - This kid's defense will be amazing and his offensive game is not super terrible.

   #60 - Kobi Simmons - I hate to add another nonshooter to the team, but he's good value at #60 if you can coach him up.

#2 - #19 - Justin Patton - He's young and showed huge strides in his first year starting.  If Bud can teach him how to play he could potentially be Marcus Cambyesque.

    #31 - Juwan Evans - Kid can flat out play. I think he'd be the perfect back up for Dennis.

       #60 - Peter Jok - He has some potential, if you can get his defense fixed. He could be the pure shooter the Hawks need.

#3 -- #19 - Jarrett Allen - I think he'll have good defensive ability to start out. I've seen some videos and he has some potential in the midrange as far as his offense.

       #31 - Jawuan Evansn - same as above.

        #60 - P.J. Dozier - Kid needs his shot fixed, but everything else in his game is pretty good. 

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

Gonna have to jump to get him, Judy.

 

Honestly, the Knicks drafting him is the worst thing possible for Frank.  Maybe in a year or two after they've ruined him for two seasons (as they ruined THJ), Schlinek (sp) can trade for him for pennies on the dollar and Bud can whip him into shape.