marco102

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

emoLove is getting traded for Paul George.

Book it.

This is  my fear.   That team would destroy Golden State.  Bron Bron would probably get two more championships.

On 6/11/2017 at 6:49 PM, KB21 said:

Just to note, Aran Smith over at NBADraft.net has Jackson rated 20th on his top 100 big board and has Atlanta taking him at 19 and Semi Ojeleye at 31.

I would not be upset with that draft.  There's a lot of combination of players I would not be upset with.

I see it as LeBron getting a taste of his own medicine.  He started this foolishness and for you all out there thinking Cleveland isn't a Super Team, they have three freaking all stars capable of dropping 30 on you at anytime.  Golden State just happened to out do them.  To be honest, I'm not sure GS could beat Cleveland without Durant. 

No one is looking at the good side of this.  We may have very good players switching to the Eastern Conference to escape the juggernaut that is Golden State.  I just hope the Hawks can land one or two them. 

Count me on the Justin Jackson bandwagon.  I looked at him last year and he was turrible.  He's improved every aspect of his game this year.  I do not see him as a 3, although he could play the 2/3/4 (4 is a stretch because he only ways 200lbs). I think if the Hawks draft him, he'll play the 2.  If he improves his dribble, he'll be an excellent future 2 guard next to Dennis. He's also more developed than some of the other guys I like in this draft, so he'll be able to contribute some next year.

2 hours ago, DBac said:

I like Kuzma, reminds me of a calm Markieff Morris. 

Don't know anything about Burton besides the fact that he has a crazy fun to watch highlight reel.

I like Kuzma too.  He def needs to work on his shot though, but if he gets it down, there's a lot of potential there for a good starter.  Not an all star, but a good solid starter that does the little things that go unnoticed.

Umm.  I'm sorry, but I'm enjoying watching LBJ feel hopeless just like he's made the Hawks feel hopeless every year  they've met in the playoffs. 

You can hate the warriors, but they play the game the right way.  They share the ball, move without the ball, play tough defense.

I've enjoyed this coronation of GS which started in September.

1 minute ago, Blunt91 said:

I have been watching some highlights of this guy and he seems to have pretty good defense instincts.  He is listed as a PG for the gamecocks but I think is more of a combo guard.  He is 6'6 with a solid 200lbs frame, has decent vision, good defense instincts but not the best shooter (shot 28% on 3's).    I would not pick him at 19 as I think that is a stretch but I don't think he last till the 31st pick.   Teams like Portland and Brooklyn may snatch him up.   Would you try to move up from 31 to get him?  It would probably take us giving up the 2019 late 1strounder from Cleveland to get him.    However, is he worth giving up a late 1st rounder to get him?

 

 

 

I think it depends on who the Hawks select at 19 and who's available at 31.  I definitely would not be opposed to him at 31.  He has plenty of upside.  He's not a combo guard he's a straight up 2 with some play making  ability. 

Just now, CP61 said:

Yeah I think Frank will be a great NBA defender, a good shooter, and an excellent secondary ball handler. The perfect compliment to Dennis. That's why he's my favorite player for the Hawks in this draft. That guard tandem could be extremely good. 

If the Hawks get anything close to playoff Dennis (25pt/8 assists) consistently the next few years and Frank turns into an 18/6/6 type guard, the Hawks will finally have the guard tandem that can take them far. 

4 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

Is he a better fit next to Dennis than Luke Kennard?

To me?  YES!  I don't believe Kennard will be able to guard as well as Frank.  Frank's mechanics look really good and I believe he will become an above average shooter in the nba.  His handles should improve considering his age.  I believe Frank at 21 years old will be better than Luke Kennard is now. 

1 hour ago, Spud2Nique said:

You love your free throws Gramps and will good reason. I agree with both the theee point shooting and charity stripe.

 

I will also add the ability to defend the three pointer. We need some perimeter defense for sure.

In the playoffs, the Hawks perimeter D was much better than the regular season.  

Pick n roll defense was nonexistent. 

4 hours ago, Spud2Nique said:

After a lot of thought, I'm going over to the dark side and joining those in favor of a complete rebuild and please hear me out before you let me have it.

 

The following reasons are why I've changed my mind and here they are:

 

1. We have no superstars. If we had a superstar or a star in his prime (sap no longer prime), I would say let's build. We have none and if history is any indication, we shouldn't bank on any coming here via free agency anytime soon.

2. We have a roster in which only 6 players are guaranteed to come back (Dwight, Dennis, Baze, Delaney, Prince and Bembry). From those, 2 were rookies last year and are very solid players (already a head start in the youth movement). Dwight and Baze are players that can't be relied on moving forward, so technically we could definitely try and use them as pawns for getting more picks or younger players or hold onto them until the deadline. But imo, its better to face your mistakes and correct the course rather than keep going down a wrong path.

3. We have a new GM in colonel Schlenk, who is known most for his ability to scout talent. Having been around greats like Don Nelson and Jerry West, you have to figure something rubbed off on the guy. Why not take advantage his ability to spot talent by giving him more weapons in terms of the draft. We already have 10 or 11 picks over the next 3 years so if he is indeed as good as indicated, he should be given the chance to show his stuff and find the right guys for Bud.

 

4. Our coach. Coach Bud can teach and coach players. We see what he did with DMC, Sap, Dennis, Prince. The guy excels at getting the best out of his players. I would love to see what he could do in grooming some young players from the very start, fresh out of college. 

 

5. Our past. I'll admit the biggest reason I never want to tank is because of what happened to us from 2000-2007. We absolutely stunk and I always think I never want to go back there again. But now that I think about it, I understand why it took us so long to rebuild, it's because we had an inept front office with Billy Knight and that ownership mess. There was a war within between 2 knuckleheads in Bruce Levenson and Knight. You cannot have internal team issues and a GM in Knight and expect it not to take that long. What I'm saying is our rebuild/retool would take no more than 3 years max, but we would build it the right way with Schlenk/Bud/Wilcox/Sund/Grant Hill.

 

6. Lastly, there are a couple of teams you may have heard about..the Cavs and the Warriors. They will be facing each other for the 3rd straight finals...and it may not end there. These teams have a couple more years left in them...2-4 more years...sadly, we can't beat them. It's the stupid NBA's own fault for allowing powerhouses and screwing over 28 other franchises but that's what they did and now we have to ride it out, prolly until the end of this decade. :-(

 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to the dark side. I forgot who is in the rebuild camp. I know @NBASupes is in there for sure...im in Supes! Gimme the dark side tour. :-)

 

@JayBirdHawk @kg01 @Thomas @turnermx @hazer I just wanna let you know that this was not an overnight decision. It's been building for a few weeks now. I just decided to come out publicly with it and I hope your criticism of me isn't too harsh. I just want the Hawks to get there...after 10 straight seasons of being eliminated from the playoffs, I'd like to roll the dice again. 

 

Just remember one thing, even though my stance of rebuilding has changed, I'm still the same ole Spud!

 

ps @hazer, I think you already had you toes dipped in the rebuild pool with that Jonathan Isaac proposal.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad you came out of the closet and are fully embracing your tank side .  I fully support you on this journey, well not really because I don't believe in tanking for some unicorn that you may never get.   

There are ways to go with a youth movement and still be very competetive.    What the Hawks may want to do is hope that Brembry or THjr keep improving to the point where a team is willing to give up a lottery pick for either one.   If Isaia comes over, we have 3 young shooting guards with some upside,  THjr (league average), Bembry (if his shot gets fixed will be a very good player on O and defense with playmaking ability), Isaia (who knows?)  

Bazemore is more of an asset than we give him credit for too. The problem with Baze is the Hawks tried to force him into a role in which he currently does not have the ability to perform.   Sacremento will probably be willing to give up one of their two top ten picks for him since they are severly lacking in defense.

Uhh what happened to the discussion on Frank Ntilikina? 

15 minutes ago, CP61 said:

I'd do your realistic trade in a heartbeat since the Minnesota pick is protected. Also the Knicks have Noah's contract killing hen at center, they couldn't add Dwight too. That would be investing $37 million annually in aging centers and one of them is constantly hurt and not good at all.

You could make this trade work with Baze and Dunleavy.  You'll keep Dwight, but get Carmelo and possibly swap picks.  The Knicks want to get rid of Melo at all costs. I don't know if they will give us thier pick, but who knows. 

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

My wild thought wouldn't work here. So here's another wild thought that would require the Knicks being stupid (maybe they are) and make people mad here:

Dwight Howard for Knicks #8. Just straight swap.

They might be dumb enough. I wouldn't expect them to be but they might.

Realistically, DeAndre Bembry, 2018 Minnesota pick, and a 2nd.

I don't think that's enough.

The Hawks will need to take Melo off their hands I believe which I'm not super opposed to.  If Melo agress swap him and Dwight. I'd take that all day every day.  I wonder if the Kings would trade Willie Caulie -Stein to the Hawks to replace Dwight.

The week before last, Bud was in Europe checking out Frank and a few of us have been discussing him.  I believe he has the potential to be a two-way star in Bud's system.  I believe Bud will groom him to be the starting two next to Dennis. He turns 19 the week after and is 6'5" with a wingspan close to 7 ft.  He's already playing super well in the Frech Pro League A. See highlights below. 

If the Hawks decide to move up in the draft, I hope it's this guy!  He's projected to go from 9 (NBAdraft.net) to 11 (DraftExpress).  I'm not sure of the costs to move up to10 spots, but I believe it will be worth it.  

What are your thoughts on Frank? 

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Not me. I'm hoping for a declining scale contract - less money as he ages.

 

Can't wait, lol!!

I'm glad u said this. I wonder if Paul would take a declining deal. I'd be all aboard for that why the Hawks continue to rebuild. I still believe sao will be a good player at 36. His game is not based on athletiscm.

I just don't want his cap hit to be 30+ million around this time.

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Wurider is right on this.  A few years ago this was discussed in detail on this board.  The number one reason top tier athletes choose cities is not the fan base, the weather or even winning tradition.  Elite players choose cities based on marketing opportunities (Lebron as the exception).

We as fans get hung up on winning. But players have a short shelf life. They need to make as much money as possible in the shortest time possible. Cities like LA, NY, Chi, Bos have very large television markets and captive except for LA, captive winter audiences. Good players make as much or more in endorsements based on the city they live in, than their contract.  See this article as one example http://opendorse.com/blog/8-athletes-who-earn-more-money-from-endorsements-than-their-sports-careers/

The biggest player in this with NBA players are sporting wear and shoe makers. Addidas (for example) makes it a point to give out endorsements to its players in their bigger markets and makes sure to have at least one brand shoe in each market. Back when Josh was a big deal in Atlanta and we first talked about Dwight coming here, it was discussed on this board how Adidas held shoe contracts with both and had no one wearing their shoes in other major markets. But the fact remains that if you are selling sneakers in Atlanta vs selling them in LA, the market in LA is vastly bigger than in the ATL TV market.  New York has 23 full powered tv stations. LA 27. Atlanta 14.

But it isn't just the number of stations, but the amount of people they can reach.  Massachusetts (for example) is a much more densely packed area of the country than Georgia. Massachusetts has a population density of 840 per square mile. Georgia, 165.  This means that broadcasts for Celtics basketball can potentially reach 5 times as many people. The endorsements for auto dealerships, restaurants and other local fair pay way more money for lower tiered athletes and for this reason, top tier athletes get more money from their sponsors to play in those type of markets.

Luring top talent to Atlanta used to be much easier when TBS carried Braves/Hawks games all over the country. But since big sports cable started buying and localizing games, smaller markets have seen their big names flee for the sports Meccas.

Let me put this to rest. Atlanta is not a small market. Its the number 10 TV market in the country. Thats NBA and NFL.

Atlanta's problem was terrible management for years and a losing culture. Perception will not change in 4 years. I bet u if the Hawks made it to the NBA finals the last two years, plenty of free agents would flock here deals be damned. Also this Malarky about going to big markets to get exposure basically died with the arrival of social media. West Brook gets all the endorsements he wants in okc and they are a much smaller market than Atlanta.

IF the Hawks move up AND want a guard, I'd love for them to select Frank Ntilikina (not for the simple fact that Nique will butcher his name on a nightly basis, but because this kid has Hawks star written all over him. ) 6-5 with an almost 7 ft wingspan, can play the 1 to 2 and small ball 3. He's also a decent defender and shooter.   He will turn 19  the week AFTER the draft.  Give Bud this kid and let him mold him into the star we need.  

If they do move up to get him, I'd select Jordan Bell with pick #31 or even Harry Giles (it's a second round pick after all you might as well roll the dice). I'd much rather perfer Jordan Bell as I feel he's more Hawksy.  Giles only because we will need a young big who can rebound and at this point I believe that's all Giles can do.  Maybe he will tap into the potential he had in high school maybe not, but with a second round pick he's worth a gamble.FRANK NTILIKINA - Source: ©DraftExpress

Milsap is not getting $205 million from any team including the Hawks.  There aren't many teams with capspace to pay him nearly $30 million a year (teams that are good I should say).  I think we are going to be suprised when the Hawks bring him back at a reasonable deal $25 - $27 million a year over the life of the contract.  I still don't like those numbers considering the Hawks will be way over the cap.  Only reasonable thing to do is move Baze for something or give up some draft picks to get a decent shooter.

I like him too.  The nba is getting smaller so his game will probably translate.

9 hours ago, KB21 said:

Right.

I personally do not believe Tony Ressler is the type of owner that believes in himself as the President and GM of the club in the way that Jerry Jones does in football.  I do believe that there was enough of a divide between what Bud wanted to do and what Wes wanted to do before the deadline that he had to step in and make the decision.  I think people are taking that part and spinning it towards him being a meddlesome owner, and some are even trying to reinvent the Dwight Howard chase as if it were all Ressler's doing. 

You mean Peachtree Hoops? Cause that's exactly their narrative. 

Finally, more people are jumping on the Patton band wagon.  Give Bud this guy and if he gets an extra 20 - 30 pounds the Hawks will be in business!  Dennis, THjr, Patton, Jonathan Motley (see what I did there :)) and Taurean Prince.  Is a starting five I can get behind.  Versatility at its best. 

1 minute ago, h4wkfan said:

I'm on the motley, d Mitchell, or bust train for pick 19. I'd prefer motley due to need.

I like Motley too.  If the Hawks can somehow get a combination of Motley and Justin Patton, I'd be ecstatic!

I don't think we should address the 2 guard position in this draft.  If we are going guard, I'd want Frank Mason.  I think he'd make an excellent back up to Dennis. 

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

In reality and not the draft, I'm not sure. I have said that I'd like to "Greg Monroe" Dwight Howard, but then...what's the alternative for early on in the season? Muscala? I'm not stupid.

But in the draft, and I may put a longer post in the draft thread on my thoughts, but here's just the start:

Zach Collins but he's going to be a lottery pick.
Justin Patton, who might be LaMarcus Aldridge like with defense. He also might bust.
Isaiah Hartenstein.
John Collins (Myles Turner?)

As for an early comp on Bam, mine would ironically be Tristan Thompson, but possibly better shot blocking and offense.

Gotcha.  

Justin is more Athletic than LaMarcus. I feel he'll be a better defensive player. Now his offense will probably not be as good as Portland LaMarcus.

I also like Anzejas Pasecniks - with pick number 31.