Wretch

We'll make moves this summer, we'll have a good draft, and we will have plenty of money come next summer - when we could have yet another good draft pick. With the new owners coming in, we may not be winning, but we will definitely be a much different franchise than than the one that McGrady is evaluating right now.

*lol* Yeah... I am not convinced that the lottery is real. I think some years, where it really doesn't matter, Stern just lets it fly. But in the case where sh#t just needs to be done (LeBron, Memphis(Van)/Detroit, CWebb, Yao/JWill) I think the NBA steps in and creates it's own destiny within the top 3 picks. And considering the lack of parity between the 2 conferences, I don't think there's any question regarding motive. I don't think there's any under the table business between the league and the teams involved. Stern or whomever just determines which picks in the top three go where. Having the drawing behind closed doors makes no difference, it is the machine that has been created to produce the number combinations that the league needs. With that, I don't think that there is any need to worry about where we finish. We are in dire need of facelift, just as Cleveland was in need of LeBron and Detroit (an already *decent* EC team) was in need of Memphis' pick. I don't think we'll get the top pick. But the team that does get it, will be a team inclined to take Okafur - like Orlando who coincedentally has the worst record in the league. We'll get the 2nd pick, take Howard, and the rest would be up to chance. So realistically, I think the lottery is being drawn only for the #3 pick. Otherwise if *bwahahaha* the lottery is "real", and we end up picking 5th, I hope Deng declares - that might give us a chance at Smith.

I feel bad for him too (well, as bad as I can feel considering that his pocket change could pay my salary for a year... ). He's a guy who's just fallen off the radar. I can only imagine the kind of team Orlando would have been. It would have been great for the NBA and especially the Eastern Conference.

Knowing that within the next few years, we will have a completely different team on the floor. Chances are we'll have an identity - which we've not had since Nique left. Thinking about all the top players in the league immediately brings up their colors. Names like Iverson, Kobe, Garnett, and Duncan are synonymous with their franchises. We don't have one of those... We don't have a LeBron or Carmelo either. Hell, we don't even have a Kwame, Chandler, or Miles to gripe about or for the league to take notice of. It's all about to change though and I couldn't be more excited. Whether we tank, scrap it out, draft 1st or 5th...our franchise is heading for a new beginning. We will FINALLY have an identity. In the nearly two decades that I've followed this team, I can't say that I've ever been more excited! I wouldn't rather be a fan of any other team in the league right now. (Heh. Jay, what'chu know about that Pacman Hawk! *LOL*)

I don't think there is enough in place to entice Kobe to sign with us. He's either going to resign with LA, move crosstown to the Clippers, or sign with a team with a solid core. Anyone remember his face when SanAntonio put them out of the playoffs last year? He was crying, shaken, and determined to get back. This after coming off of a 3-peat! He's a tireless competitor and asking him to come to Atlanta would be asking him to rebuild our franchise. I don't think he's interested in rebuilding. Anywho, I do believe that we have a GREAT chance at signing TMac - whom I like better anyway and believe would be a much better fit. That is...if he decides to leave Orlando.

Quote: Rented Players? Aren't they all! Whether they have been here 5 minutes or 5 years, they are "Hired" men, coming here to do a job. Not quite. First of all, players who are locked up in a contract will play for us until thier deal runs out or until we get rid of them. They are our players, and watching them over a period of time develops an attatchment (to the good players anyway...) This is just a basic rule of sports. I don't know these new guys. I haven't seen them play 6 months of basketball. The only thing that makes me a fan is that they now play for my team. Cool. But the biggest difference here is that all of these guys could be headed elsewhere. With no guarantee from our franchise that they will be back, their primary concern is MAKING MONEY - not playing their hearts out for us. A guy like JT says, "I want to be here. I love this city. I've been through the rough times. I want to be here when it turns around. I want to help turn it around." That's the difference. A guy like Sura or even Jack, they have the attitude, "Hey, this is a great city. Management is getting settled and the franchise is going in a new direction. We'll just have to see what happens this summer. Right now, I'm just concerned about going out and playing hard every night, having fun, and trying to win a few games." That translates into - "I'm looking for a paycheck." Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that. If any of us were in that situation, we'd be doing the same thing. However, you can't expect me to go out and cheer for this guy to get himself a good paycheck. I wish these guys all the luck in the world in trying to secure a decent deal - but my biggest concern is that my team is in the best possible position to draft the player that they want. So, I cheer for them...but I don't expect them to win and I'm not looking for them to win. I'd like for them to get paid and I'd like for them to come back as Hawks - but I want a top draft pick. ... As for who to bring in...and what to do. We should have gotten a draft pick for Reef and Ratliff. So all we're left with is dangling JT out there. Oh well, can't cry over spilled milk. We aren't in a win now situation and anything we do is going to spark some interest in the team. So, I don't think we have to go after the sure thing in the draft (Okafur). I think Howard is a better fit, if only through a marketing angle. I haven't seen him play, but I like what I hear about him. I wish we could pick up Smith too. Something tells me that he's going to be the player that teams are going to wish they had taken in this draft. If we don't get one of the top 2 picks, I think he's a no-brainer. Free agents... First, I have to start right here. I like Jackson and Sura. You're talking about two very tough "go all out" type of players. People had forgotten about Sura and he was supposed to be just a throw in as we tanked the season. However, he and Jack are the reason why the Hawks are competing so hard down the stretch. Jack is worth around $5 mill. and I'd give it to him. Sura is probably worth the same...but he'll have to play out a full, productive season (like he's been doing for us the past couple of months) to earn it. He'll probably end up signing a short deal with an option like Jackson. I'd give him that, but I think someone has a eye for him in their plans to make a run. TMac is obviously on everyone's radar. But not everyone has the money like we do to sign him. For that reason alone, I don't think he can be looking at signing with a contender; and unlike Kobe, he isn't fresh off of a three-peat. He'll be looking for a talented team to sign with. I think we can put that out there next off season; and with the money available to sign the supporting cast that he needs, I think we have a better than average shot at signing him - if he walks away from Orlando. Management might be looking into dealing for Iverson with the intent of luring another top 10 player through free agency. Iverson, Jackson/Sura, McGrady, Howard/Okafur...? I'd buy that for a dollar! The question is, do we give up our 1st rounder for him... I wouldn't if we are looking at a top 3 pick. Obviously, Philly would be looking to take back JT, but the bigger problem that I have is giving up a PF with star potential for an older speed guard... I don't know what the rush was for this offseason. We would have had the money to go after TMac next year regardless. Perhaps our new owners are serious about going after Kobe Bryant? I don't think a Kobe/Iverson combo would work well. That's just too much ego. ...and to be honest, I just want to see what Billy Knight has planned for this summer. If we don't improve through fa'cy this summer, then I just don't see the point of dumping all of our talent for basically nothing.

The best thing for the franchise is to be in the best position to draft the player that we want - be it whomever. The bottom line is that winning at this point in the season is pointless. The fact that many of these players may not be here next season is a very valid arguement. These guys are representing their team by default. They are playing to earn their keep in the NBA - not to win anything of significance...which they couldn't anyway, being that we are so mathematically out of contention for anything of significance. The reality is, these guys are rented for less than half a season and are auditioning for whomever will pay them. They are no more "our Hawks" than the players that we traded to Portland. Nope. That doesn't mean I won't cheer for them; but given the choice between meaningless wins for these rented "mercenaries" or best possible lottery position... Yeah... ...and I wouldn't say none of the present Hawks care about wins. I don't think that's the case at all. I think it matters to the guys who have fought in Hawks colors all year long. I think it matters to an extent, to every guy on the floor. Still, they are the same players whether they win or lose. It doesn't make them any better that they pull out a few wins at the end of the season. It says that they haven't quit...which is good; and it says that they are competitors...which is excellent. But don't delude yourself. A paycheck, security, and a stable environment matter more to them than a few thousand fans booing or cheering them at the games and at home in front of a TV. Bank on that. If winning were more important than money, then our (arguably) most key player would have never suited up for us this season. Nope. ... As for the draft... *sigh* I've had this conversation years before we even thought about the lottery. The contention is always the same thing...there are no sure fire things in the draft, look at (insert_bust), there isn't alway a Shaq, etc... It doesn't matter. You don't win in this league without stars. It just doesn't happen - ever. Sure there are scrappy Utah's and defensive Detroits out there, but these guys aren't the favorites to win anything of importance. And those types of teams WILL NOT BE TAKEN IN BY THE CITY OF ATLANTA. Having a mediocre or middle of the pack team breeds only mediocre or middle of the pack results; and Atlanta sports in general has suffered through it for eons. No one will come out to see an average, over achieving team get stomped in the 1st round of the playoffs. To break away from the pack, and to breathe life into this particular franchise, we need a star. Draft him, sign him, or trade for him. But... We ain't got sh#t left to trade for a star... We are a loooooong shot to sign someone big... What's left...? A freebie, locked up for 3 years at 1/4th the price of a superstar. If he blossoms, we resign him...if anyone tries to take him away...we take him right back. Regardless of where we pick, our future lies in the lottery. ...and I would rather be in the position to consider drafting a bust than to not have the chance at all. ... And winning games is one thing, winning meaningless games is another. If we had a young squad that was supposed to be our future...already in place like Chicago...then it would be quie a different story. WE DON'T EVEN HAVE THAT! We have JT, we HOPE that we have Jack, we're lucky if we can get Sura at a bargain. We need talent, not hard fought meaningless wins that push us further down in the draft. Luck may have it that a gem like Paul Pierce or TMac would fall to us after everyone else makes their drafting mistakes. True. But again, I'd rather take my chances with my pick of the cream of the crop. If our next draft pick is a bust...oh well, we've still got free agency and we've still got the next draft and the next. All of us "tank" supporters are fine with that...at some point, it's going to stop and it ain't gonna be 11 or 12 years from now like the Clips (who have had their chances if not for their cheap-@ss owner BTW)... But on the other hand... If we draft the next Dirk or TMac or JO or Pierce...and they become a vital piece to our puzzle (ala Duncan or Kobe) then what else can be said except thank God for the draft? And everyone will jump on the (insert_Atlanta_Hawks_superstar) bandwagon... I doubt there are many people who believe 100% that our next draft pick will be our immediate savior; at the same time, we ALL acknowledge that we need to start building our future through the draft. Even if we could lure Kobe and TMac, it wouldn't hurt to have a PF with star potential to develop. It wouldn't hurt to have 2 such players... Winning? Gives us what? Right now? A few nights to cheer and a lower draft pick.

I'll be long dead before that happens. Still, my team will be my team no matter who holds them up financially. Where a team is based doesn't matter...what matters is watching them stomp the sh#t out of someone and rubbing it in someone else's face! Seriously, though... A team is a team. If they were the Microsoft Hawks, I'd still want them to be in the best possible position to improve. I would want them to do what's best for the franchise. If my team is losing and is composed of 80% mercenaries...then I am really not interested in them winning; and losing helps more. What's really funny is that these damn dudes don't care about winning! I mean, it's nice for them to go out and say, "hey, we kicked Dallas' @ss!" And it looks good on their NBA resume...but above all else, they are looking to get paid, some are just looking to stay in the NBA. They aren't draft picks that we've locked up for 3 years. They aren't signed to long, fat contracts and they could care less about MY opinion of them. And that's fine with me, there is no reason why they should. At the same time, I don't owe them anything. If you want them to go out and give it their all and fatten up that resume...that's cool. Me...? I could care less. I will care when our roster is filled out and the games start to matter. Yes, they deserve some support - from whoever their fans are; if I were at the game and they won...and I got to speak to JT or Sura, the last thing on my mind would be damning them for winning. I'd tell them how I feel, but I would tell them how much I like their game and how hard they played - then I'd ask for an autograph.

Before the fact, you are looking at a good Spurs team. You want those guys to win and the lottery is the last thing on your mind. It's like... Oh, Orlando just won the lottery again...they can play Chris Webber alongside Shaq! Great. Or...LeBron is a good fit for Cleveland... Or...why didn't the Clippers take Bibby??? None of that matters to you as a fan of a winning team. You just start breaking down the opposition and seeing just what kind of chance you'll have against them in the playoffs. I miss that high every year...right up until the Hawks had absolutely no more chance to move forward... So before the fact, you are just a fan like everyone else in the world of winners - oblivious to the goings on of the bottom of the NBA food chain. But... When there is a LeBron, Shaq, Duncan, Ewing, etc. in the draft... And your star player gets bumped at the beginning of the season or preaseason, and the docs say, "it looks serious, like it may put him out for the season, but we'll know after further testing." You kinda wink and nod...you've got a chance to do a RARE thing in the world of the NBA... In either situation, you look at what's best for the franchise. OBVIOUSLY Tim Duncan was a (manufactured?) blessing for the Spurs. Just as LeBron was for the Cavs. The best situation for a franchise to be in depends on how the season is predicted to go and the state of the franchise itself. If the Cavs lose LeBron for the entire year next season...do Cavs fans want those guys to go out and finish .500? What if the Knicks lose Marbury? What if the Magic lose McGrady? What if the Lakers lose Shaq? It all depends on the franchise and where things stand. Where we stand and what we need to do is a no-brainer.

I've been a Hawks fan since 1985 and I'm a fan of the game. I could root for anyone and still call myself a Hawks fan. But who would I be supporting right now? I watched JT since we traded Mookie for him. I was there when Crawford went off for 30 with a screwed up shoulder in the playoffs. I was heartbroken when Hendu sat out with viral pancreatitis and was uplifted during his subsequent "breakout" season. The rest of these guys? Where were they last year this time? Most were not here less than 2 months ago and there is a chance that NONE of them will be here this off season. Even if there were scores of fans out there rooting for them, the reality is that these guys are playing with the intent of signing anywhere that will pay them. They are mercenaries in effect, who neither come out to entertain me nor have any serious interest in the franchise beyond April 14th. Yet, I owe them my loyalty as a fan??? I've watched Stephen Jackson for a season now, and I like him. If you were to ask him what's more important to him right now...winning or getting paid, what do you think his response would be. ...? You wouldn't have to ask him because he has implied as much since the day he turned down San Antonio. As for everyone else who has not been with the franchise longer than 3 months...they have their fans from wherever they came, but just because they put on that red, black, and gold it doesn't mean that they've won instant loyalty from me. More than any player on the court right now, I am a fan of the franchise. These mercenaries go out and win these meaningless games and they hurt the franchise. So in essence, they are the opposition. Yet, they are Hawks players, and NBA players...and as a fan of the game and of the Hawks...I don't feel right rooting against them. There's really no positive way to look at it. It's a you're damned if you don't and you're damned if you do situation. For me, it's simple: these guys owe me nothing and I owe them nothing. The games are absolutely meaningless - except in the loss column, where they have MUCH value. I appreciate their losses and thier wins do nothing for me. In the long run, the losses help the franchise - which I root for above all else, so here's hoping that these guys finish "bad" enough to get us the greatest chance of drafting our future. ... As for who we draft and how long we hope to be in the lottery... It's all a roll of the dice. It's up to chance and good management. We need to be looking at improving the franchise in anyway we can. Packaging JT with Milwaukee's pick may be the answer. TMac could play a big role in reshaping our future. Okafur or Howard or Smith or Livingston may change things for us...we just need to go with the best option at the right time. And our plans change as we acquire pieces to the puzzle. As long as we are a team devoid of talent, I say let it go until we strike gold or sign a premier free agent. If we got young studs like Chicago, LAC, Denver, or Phoenix...then what's the point of the lottery? I'll scream my guts out for them to win even if our record completely sucks. I did so before and I will again. Right now though, we just need to let this season slide and start looking at June (or the lottery drawing during the playoffs).

Now, that's what I'm talking about Nicholas. That is the best scenario for these guys. And actually, I'm not worried about finishing with he worst record. I just want to finish in the bottom 3. There, you have as good a chance as anyone of landing one of the top picks.

I don't feel right rooting for the Hawks to lose - especially in games like last night when they go out and fight hard. At the same time, these games are absolutely meaningless. Most of these guys are playing for a contract that has a damn good chance of coming from some other team; and with nobody coming to the games now anyway, do we think that these same players care about a) the fairweather fans that come out and root for the Lakers, Kings, Knicks, 76ers, or Magic or b) The very small sect of actual Hawks fans that watch them on TV? But we should care about what they do... It is VERY likely that these "ending contract" players could care less about the laughable fanbase in Atlanta, are playing hard simply to earn a contract, and will jet at the drop of a hat come summer - giving us...a few extra nights to cheer for the franchise. Yay. Additionally, I'm sure many of these guys just want the season to be over with so they can spend time with their families and vacation. Right now, wins are pointless. Winning is pointless to everyone except those guys looking to get paid. Even in Chicago where they don't need the lottery and have all those young guys who NEED to win - Scott Skiles has gone on record questioning the value of the remainder of the season. So, while I don't root for my team to lose because it feels wrong, seeing them win now does absolutely nothing for me. If anything, it's actually frustrating to see them pick up the pace, fighting to win meaningless games now...as opposed to early in the season when it mattered...with a bunch of "rented" players no less - who could give a sh#t less about the franchise. And all that says nothing about how the wins push us further away from drafting the potential that we need. Anyone catch this: "Who's this [famous Hawks player inside the nesting dolls] Bob Sura?" "Uhh, I dunno...I ain't brushed up on my Hawks history." Pfft... End already.

Chicago, maybe they're as bad as they're playing. It's not like they NEED another hssr to groom for 3 or 4 years. Sh#t, they have rebuilt through the lottery 2 or 3 times since MJ left. I'm sure these guys want to win... Chandler and his chronic ailments busted up their sync early on, and their last 10 games have been against some tough teams. Their remaining schedule looks weak. I can see Paxon and Skiles pushing these guys to finish strong...and I can see it happening. Phoenix on the other hand, that's another story. I know they play in the West, and Marbury's gone...still, those guys are much better than the record indicates. They're purposely tanking. Why...I don't know. They don't really need sink as far as we do to get the player they need.

I like the way they've been playing too. It's fun to watch. I can't remember the last Hawks team that ran like that. We need to build a team with that kind of identity, which you rarely see in the EC... As for Diaw... I'm not worried about him. He'll run and he'll pass. I don't think he's hampered or partial to one style of play over another. He's not a post player, so he doesn't exactly need a slow, half-court game. Plus, again, the guy is very young and very raw. He can be molded into what we need.

Good game. I'm not looking for the Hawks to win too many games down the stretch, but I can honestly say I was excited to see what they did last night. It doesn't surprise me either. It is said that on any given night any team can beat any team in the NBA; it's because these guys are all professionals and the cream of the crop. As individuals and a team, they ball on such a high level. While the Hawks have sucked in recent years, it was never really for a lack of talent. These guys can score; JT and Jack are remnants of that. Throw in a madman like Sura, and a bunch of guys playing for contracts...and you've got a scrappy little team. On another note, does everyone see what JT can do in the right system with the right compliments? His playmaking ability has been beat to death, but you rarely hear about his shot. When he puts it up, you can just look at it and you know it's going in. You can't give him sh#t wide open, and you better hope you got someone fast enough to guard him. In that open style of play, running up and down the court, with all that movement on the offense - guys just moving, passing, and spotting up - JT is perfect. And I'm sure we're in agreement now that Jackson is a keeper. He's young, handles the ball, rebounds, and most importantly, he's tough. All great teams need a player like him and they will come knocking this off season. Good thing the great teams have little money to offer - 'cept San Antonio; that'd be ironic wouldn't it? We need to make him a good offer, but we need to keep our cap open so that we can pursue a couple of big tickets. I like Sura too and I'm wondering how cheap we could get him back...

He's still a very young rookie, from Europe...we can't expect too much out of him. Early on, I think some of us were too concerned with making something out of this season (...). As Diaw showed good rookie promise, I think some people saw him as a ball-handling compliment to our starting lineup, and in doing so put too much faith into his 1st year of development. He's still got game though. He may not be much of a scorer now, but he gets to the basket - that's a good sign. He handles the ball very well for his size and he's athletic. We can work with that. If that's all that he had, then I'd be concerned...mostly with just freeing up a roster spot. However, Diaw has great defense, rebounding, court vision, and passing ability to go along with atheleticism and handles. Plus he's young. No...I'm not too concerned about him right now; and unless he were involved in a spectacular deal I wouldn't even think about dealing him. I don't think Knight is either.

I tend to agree D. Last year during the All-Star game, Stern publicly expressed his concern over our situation; which led me to believe that he would hook us up then (word is that we missed out on Melo by one ping-pong ball). I've pondered this year's scenario too...hell, I think if we had managed to squeeze a lottery pick out of Portland (assuming they don't make the playoffs), Stern would have probably "bumped" that pick too. But, don't you think this year it'd be kinda obvious though? The setup with LBJ was the same as ours (he's from Ohio, Cleveland sucked, the east needed a boost, etc.); however, it was also easier to play the odds...with Cleveland sharing the worst record and with the history of the lottery. If we land in the top 3, I think he'll run it...and I don't think anyone could argue with the odds. But if we land 5 or lower, I don't think he'll do it. We might be considered for the 2nd pick...but there ain't no way we'd win the top slot.

Yes it was! But the key here is "draft position." Some people argue that it's stupid to want the team to lose so that we can get the #1 or #2 pick in the draft; they're right. With the lottery process, you aren't guaranteed anything and with multiple teams and players having multiple agendas...there's no way that you can predict or even realistically hope for the best draft position. You just have to position yourself for a good draft position. In the long run, we may even be thankful to lose out on the top slots in the draft. I don't think Chicago fans are too upset that they picked behind Houston and Portland '84... However the season plays out, I just hope BK does his homework.

Quote: Billy Knight on trading Reef: “It’s a tough situation, he’s the player making the most money and he’s the player everybody wants. He’s our best player and I have to do what’s best for the organization, and that supercedes what’s best for me.” I'm sorry, I don't speak Puppetish...can someone translate this for me?

Oh, you know it man. Most def... http://www.knology.net/~blacalis/image/throwbackj.bmp> Man, Phillips Arena is going to be BUZZING real soon! On a serious note... I just don't think Atlanta will do much of anything. If this was dictated by AOL/TW, then it's all about $$$...regardless of what Puppet Knight OR ANYONE says. If the new owners somehow worked this thing through, then they are likely trying to come in...guns a blazin', with sights set on signing someone big. But it ain't gonna happen. Maybe if we got Kobe and TMac next year... To go with JT, Boris, and whomever we draft. But I think that we simply jumped the gun to start over. Yes, we have cap space...but we already had that coming...all assets intact. We gave up 2 very good players for essentially nothing. May the force be with us...'cause we ain't got much else right now. -Later.

http://www.knology.net/~blacalis/image/jersey.bmp> I can't wait to get my hands on this thing when Sheed walks and Kobe signs elsewhere...

Wassup Trace... Had to come on over, because RealGM is taking hits big time. Anyway...yeah, I understand where you're coming from; and Atlanta (the city, not the franchise) is attractive to free agents. But, do we really think we're going to sign Kobe? ...and Yeah, why couldn't we have gotten Miles or SOMETHING out of this deal? My Billy Knight meter is teetering between "not impressed" and "please get fired" ... ...and as usual, Billy Knight has said nothing. I don't think he can talk. -Later

If that was the case though Nicholas, then why wouldn't a 3 way deal have gone down? I think this was a move to free up money, just like the Glenn Robinson deal. At least we got a draft pick in that... Blah.