Dejay

On one hand, you clear up more capspace with these moves, add some much-needed athleticism (albeit young, unproven athleticism), and put yourself in nice position come 2004 and 2005 to pursue free agents. However, the core of your entire team is gutted (again), you definitely miss the playoffs (again), and run the chances of having the same kind of problems that Jerry Krause had a few years ago when MJ and Co. ran for the hills. That problem is trying to lock up top-tier free agents that other teams actually want when you haven't sniffed the playoffs in five seasons. Now don't get me wrong; $$$ talks and everything else runs a marathon. But I also remember how the Bulls wined and dined Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Grant Hill, amongst others and ended up with Eddie Robinson and Ron Mercer. That's a huge risk for this organization to take with an already impatient fanbase who's had more than its share of hearing about 'wait 'til next year', 'wait two years, then we'll have something', 'we'll get those type of players when we have cap space'. If you roll the dice and win, this team would finally be back on the NBA map and playing games in the spring that MATTER. If you roll snake eyes, it could do serious damage to this franchise for many years to come. However, serious damage can be done if we look on the other side of the spectrum, too. Suppose we keep SAR, JT, and the rest of the crew. That squad has appeared in as many playoff games in the last two years as I have (0). And while I agree that if they could make the playoffs if some good pieces were added, where exactly ARE these good pieces? Oh, almost forgot, there are about two dozen other teams that have either already locked them up or closer to bringing them in that we are. So the $64,000 question to ask is simply this; if ownership doesn't gut this team and start over, what moves can be made for this current squad to make a playoff run?

I have to take a knee and give you credit on this one. I really think that's the sentiment of everyone on this board. For years, I've called this franchise the Demi Moore of professional sports because they've done little to nothing since arriving in this city in 1968 but 'striptease' the fans every year into believing that they finally have their [censored] together, knowing full well that they don't. Even when they were winning with 'Nique in the '80s and Lenny and Co. in the mid-90's, the front office sat on their hands, cried about how the salary cap and their position in the draft are the sole reasons behind the lack of depth and the hideous draft picks, all while watching other teams pass them by in the standings. The fact that Jerry West is running the show in Memphis and not here should say it all when it comes to the lack of status and respect this franchise should merit. If they couldn't convince him to come here and turn this mess around, why in the world should ANYONE with a straight face expect them to acquire top-level free agents? Let's be REAL honest here; given this team's track record of signing free agents that other teams actually WANT, do you expect them to land Kobe or KG? I'm not betting my checking account on it happening anytime soon. Why would they want to leave their current situations to play on a team that in all likelihood have missed the playoffs FIVE YEARS IN A ROW???

What's wrong with NOT excepting the status quo when the status quo hasn't been enough to have ticker-tape parades at season's end? And what exactly defines a 'hardcore' fan? Do you have to attend a certain amount of games after your team is mathematically eliminated from playoff contention? Do you get your 'hardcore fan' certificate at the gate? To me, just being on this forum talking Hawks basketball in the middle of August should qualify ANYONE as a 'hardcore' Hawks fan. Some of the biggest fans in the world aren't necessarily the ones you see in the arena every night. I should know because I'm no longer a season-ticket holder and a lot of members on this board aren't, either. But would you consider your allegiance to the Hawks any less in terms of value than Laker fans who piled on the bandwagon after Shaq came to town? [censored] NO!! So folks here have a higher premium for their entertainment $$$ than in other markets; BIG 'EFFIN' DEAL!! To me, that should be taken as a badge of honor and not as an insult.

I'm not saying that Atlanta is the perfect sports town. However, if Atlanta is a 'fairweather' town like you suggest, then EVERY sports city in the country is a fairweather one. You have your exceptions of course (Green Bay, Sacramento, Portland, San Antonio, Salt Lake City), however, you have to preface that because they only have one team and when that team is the only game in town, the tendency to go out and support them is WAY higher than it would be if there was an alternative. Other than that, there isn't a city that I know of that hasn't had their fair share of non-support of their teams when things went south. The Phillies are in a pennant chase; where are the fans there? How come the Boston Bruins had trouble with attendance in recent years? What happened to the folks that sold out the Forum when the Showtime Lakers went away? If I'm not mistaken, I recalled the old Chicago Stadium being more empty than the Omni used to be before MJ came to town. So was the Spectrum after Barkley was traded away (pre-Allen Iverson). Where are all the Denver fans that once broke attendance records when the Rockies started out? Aren't they more 'hardcore'? How come the football Cardinals are no longer in St. Louis? Could it be because they refused (gasp) to come out because they no longer excepted 4-12 seasons as good enough? And please explain all of the no-shows in Giants Stadium when the Jets lost with the likes of Joe Walton and Richie Kotite running the show. And PLEASE don't get me started on how many more people should be attending Oakland A's games right now; where are they? If I'm not mistaken, Houston and Phoenix had almost as many empty seats in their buildings as we did in ours for NLDS playoff games a couple of years ago; shouldn't they be more apt to come out since they DON'T have a dozen division banners hanging up and the postseason isn't necessarily treated as a birthright as it is here? However we, never, EVER, hear criticism about, let alone IN those towns when they don't show up for games, do we? Besides, in virtually every one of those places where folks say that they have more 'hardcore' fans, don't they have more people living there than in Atlanta, anyway? They certainly do after you subtract all of the transplants here. Of the 4 million in the metro area, maybe 25% of them are actually from here (and I'm stretching that percentage a great deal to be more realistic). The same 25% that saw Pete Babcock cry about the cap every eight minutes. The same 25% that saw Bob Weiss wax poetic about how we'll love Adam Keefe once he gets on the court. The same 25% that watched (insert playoff team here) celebrate at Turner Field every October. The same 25% that saw Rankin Smith, Sr. get on a podium and say that 'we've reached a plateau' after firing Leeman Bennett and bring in Dan Henning and his 22-41-1 record afterwards. The same 25% that read the SI magazine that painted the entire city as 'Losersville'. Oh yeah, they wouldn't be jaded by all of that in Philly, NY, or Chicago, wouldn't they? That isn't the case in those other 'hardcore' cities, isn't it? Could it be that the only reason other places seem to have more 'hardcore' folks in their town is because they have more people that were born and raised there (natural hometown allegiance) in the first place??? To me, I just don't see why Atlanta is put up as the posterchild of a bad sports town when other cities have never had as much as a litmus test done to them yet.

Please continue

Do we have to bring this up AGAIN?! What is so wrong with expecting more from your team when the status quo hasn't good enough to win the big trophy? As a city, we've been there and done that with division titles and just getting into the playoffs like the Hawks used to do. We don't have the history of having championship parades, let alone consistent winning. Nor have we had teams here long enough that our parents and grandparents saw and supported when they were younger and reared us up since birth to cheer for as opposed to other places like Detroit and Philadelphia, who's had major sports since the early 1900's. There's a reason why Neyland Stadium seats 106,000 and not just 50,000; folks from there remember their fathers and uncles taking them to the games back in the day and teaching them about Tennessee football since they learned to walk and never departed from it. Add that to the fact that Atlanta is one of the biggest transient cities in the country for its size and you have what you have. Think about it; almost a million people have moved here in the last decade. A million Laker fans, Bulls fans, Steeler fans, Yankee fans, Cowboy fans, Bears fans, etc. How are you going to sell them on Falcons football (pre-Vick) when they've never had consecutive winning seasons or Hawks basketball when they haven't sniffed a conference finals in over 30 years? I'll answer that; YOU DON'T AND YOU CAN'T. And as for the Braves not selling out despite winning 11 straight division titles, well, so? All those division banners taught us was that second place still equals FIRST LOSER. If you don't believe me, just ask the Buffalo Bills or the New Jersey Nets. It would've been a lot more significant to people here if they had hoisted up three or four more World Series championship banners but they haven't last I checked. And that's our measuring stick down here; WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. We've seen enough 50-win Hawk teams get slapped up side the head in the playoffs to nauseate a polar bear and we've had it up to here with watching other cities celebrate a championship while we're stuck with talking about our salary cap position in 2005. We're tired of watching other baseball teams celebrate at Turner Field in October. And we're sick of seeing our basketball team on the wrong end of highlight reels every night on SportsCenter and being the butt of jokes from Charles Barkley on TNT. So on behalf of the citizens of Atlanta, the city I LOVE, let me apologize to the 'real' hardcore fans out there. We apologize for having the common sense NOT to spend our hard-earned $$$ on a consistently bad product. It must be because we have 11 months of good weather and find other things to do (i.e. more options in the winter and spring) other than pay to see a team get smoked by 20 before halftime. We're sorry to turn a blind eye and a deaf ear to a franchise that hasn't made one stench of progress toward winning a title whatsoever in their 35+ year stay in town. We're sorry that although we've spent hundreds of millions to build them new facilities with sweetheart leases that we get a little edgy when they don't make an adequate return on the investment by putting up championship banners that MATTER. Our message to the Hawks is show us SOMETHING. If you can't bring us a title this year, at least give the impression that you're TRYING to and stop with the 'well, the salary cap prevents us from....' stuff. We've seen countless teams acquire talent with a lot more on the payroll so the 'wait three years, then we'll have something' crap doesn't hold water. Give us something to rally around. Give us a reason to spend $$$ on your product other than the fact that Shaq or McGrady is coming to town because we really don't care about them. We (the 'hardcore' fans here) care about OUR team. The Atlanta Hawks.

That's the $64K question I ask myself coming into every season. I've never quite understood how teams like the Blazers, Lakers, Pacers, and Kings, with considerably higher capped-out payrolls always managed to acquire even more talent while Hawks' management cried salary cap each and every year. Now they're dumping payroll by getting Brandon's contract off the books come 2004. I understand the trade but I'm trying to figure out how and why would big-name free agents would want to venture here (especially considering this team's woeful history of acquiring free agents to begin with; Mutombo was the first and last big-name free agent to sign here since Moses Malone back in '88). By the time 2005 rolls around, this team could very well be on the verge of missing the playoffs SIX YEARS IN A ROW!!! Yeah, that should attract the likes of Bryant, KG, and countless others to Philips. Now don't get me wrong; I understand making deals for the future. But in today's world of '[censored] the future, win NOW', you'd better make [censored] sure your team has a PRESENT in order to give its fans something to look forward to (other than another double-digit loss). I mean, didn't they learn anything from the Bulls, who are STILL waiting on KG and Tim Duncan to sign there? Wasn't that Jerry Krause's masterplan? Dump salary, have tons of cap space, watch big $$$ free agents fall over themselves to sign up, then call the jeweler to place an order for new championship rings? That worked out quite well for them. Who would want to leave a possible playoff contending situation to come to an organization with a hideous draft history, a non-existent free agent history, 5-6 consecutive lottery seasons, along with one of the most jaded (and rightfully so for this sad sack of a franchise; a loose term if there ever was one) fanbases in pro sports?

To the best of my memory, Steve Smith and Jason Terry are the only guards the Hawks have had that could consistently hit an open shot since Lou Hudson wore Atlanta gear. This has always been an achilles heel for the Hawks and rarely have they ever addressed it and its sad. That was the antedote the Pistons and Celtics used to beat them back in the late-80's when they were really good; pack the lane with defenders, get it out of 'Nique's hands, make the likes of John Battle, Doc Rivers, and Mike McGee beat you, then sprint on a fast break once it clangs off the rim. It shows, if anything, how great a player 'Nique was because he never, EVER, had a guy alongside him that could nail a 20-footer and be a threat from the outside (and, once again, Randy Wittman's 11 a night doesn't count).

Not that education isn't important because it is, but why do people (including myself and others on this board) put themselves in thousands of dollars of student loan debt every year to get a college degree in the first place? To be better qualified to get a better job and earn more $$$ than folks who don't, that's why. Besides, how many 18-year old engineering majors you see making an eight-figure salary nowadays? What's so wrong with getting the jumpstart on 99.999% of everyone else by having the $$$ to start with???

Being that it's a Hawks' pick, the odds are already against him ever being productive. I'll wait and see before I pass judgement, though....

Acie Earl (he ran so slew-footed his own teammates on the bench would laugh at him) Randolph Childress (gets my Rodney Monroe award for being sooo good in the ACC and sooo bad in the pros) Jeff Foster and Todd Fuller (Golden State couldn't just 'eff up once in back to back years, couldn't they?) Travis Mays ([censored], the Hawks traded Spud for this guy) and the ULTIMATE bust..... JOE WOLF (and that's why the Clippers are the Clippers)

and started off in quick fashion by drafting Rumeal Robinson with the 10th pick. He was so anamored with his 'skills' (one sports magazine quoted him as calling Rumeal the next Isiah Thomas; from that alone, you knew the Hawks were in trouble), that he jettisoned off Kenny Smith for Tim McCormick and John Lucas (who took about .009 seconds to announce his retirement afterwards).

JAMES FOREST. After he led Georgia Tech to the ACC championship and the Sweet 16 his sophomore year, everyone (including myself) was telling him to leave early for the NBA where he was projected to be a top-10 pick at worst. But he stayed, hurt his ankle, watched his stock take a nosedive like Worldcom and, while now playing overseas, never reached his NBA destination (at least not yet). The moral to the story is if you have a chance to be a guaranteed lotto pick (especially top-5 pick, ala Chris Bosh) in a league where the cash is guaranteed regardless of whether you turn out to be the next Kobe Bryant or the next Acie Earl, TAKE THE $$$ AND RUN. My wife and I had an argument over that because she said that if she was Labron James's mother, she'd want him to go to college and get his education. In most arguments with my wife, I just let it go but not this one. Of course my argument was that he had over $100 million reasons why he should bolt and with the $$$ he'll be able to buy a freakin' PhD. You never leave a winning lottery ticket on the shelf because you never know if it'll be there when you get back.

Ed O'Bannon (anyone that can make Stacey Augmon look good deserve mention) Scott Haskin (so bad I'll take Adam Keefe over him) Randy White (Dallas thought he was going to be the next Karl Malone; uh, nope)

With the draft just hours away, we all know there will be guys picked that will be diamonds in the rough and those that will be lumps of coal in someone's salary cap figure. How about naming some of the All-time NBA draft busts? Just to make it interesting, the candidates must be first-round picks and no Atlanta Hawk selections because we all know who they are already (everyone since '85 whose name isn't Jason Terry).

Kevin Willis is the last All-Star drafted by the Hawks back in 1984. Since then, we've had to deal with the overpaid (Alan Henderson, Chris Crawford), the overweight (Doug Edwards, Priest Lauderdale), the overrated (Rumeal Robinson, Stacey Augmon, Cal Bowdler), the injured (Dion Glover, Dermarr Johnson), and the just plain awful (Adam Keefe, Roy Marble, Ed Gray, Dallas Comegys). Here's another carrot for you to digest; since drafting Kevin Willis 19 years ago, Jason Terry is the ONLY Hawks' draft pick since to have a double-digit point average for his career!! You could buy the 'well, we pick so low in the draft every year' excuse if you have multiple banners hanging up in your arena during that time period (and no, the 1993-94 Central Division banner doesn't count), but if you don't, it is INEXCUSABLE to go that long between All-Stars. That's like saying 'well, we are totally incapable of finding a guy that can play and can develop so we have to make trades (involving future picks that we'll waste anyway) with other teams that are better at doing just that to bring one here. Pathetic.

This franchise desperately needs an upgrade in the scouting department. Not only do we have one of the smallest departments in the league but one of the worst as well (and we have the draft picks to prove it; of the Hawks' selections, JT is the only pick to have a double-digit point average for his career since the advent of the lottery in 1985). That has been an achilles heel for the Hawks for almost a generation and counting. And as far as keeping Billy Knight, I don't mind, as long as he proves to have something that Kasten and Babs never showed. VISION. With the young players, such as SAR and JT as our leading guys, they not only need a teacher to show them how to be better but one to lead them through those long stretches in January and February. The next head coach needs to be able to do both. It would be nice to see Fratello finish what he started years ago.

As the line goes, 'it was the best of times, it was the worst of times'. From 1985 through 1989, the highlight of Atlanta sports was Dominique Wilkins and the Atlanta Hawks. Remember, back then the Braves were bad, the Falcons were worse, and there was no NHL team to speak about. The Hawks didn't sell out every home game but they did well enough to the point where they never had to hype up the opposing star players coming to town in order to put butts in the seats like they have in the last decade since, especially now. Back then, people all over town wore their 'Hawk fan' badges on their chests with pride; you use to be able to say that anywhere (well, maybe not in Detroit, LA, or Boston; you could start a fight pretty easily by uttering those words in those places in the mid '80s) during those days and not get laughed out of a sports bar. Going to watch them play in the old Omni meant something back then; if you think Arco Arena in Sacramento is loud, try being in that building when the Pistons, Celtics, or Lakers were in town. It was always sold out when they came in and believe me, there was NO ONE in the house cheering for Magic, Bird, or Isiah. NO ONE. As I said before, it wasn't because Nique wasn't clutch in the playoffs that he couldn't lead them to NBA glory; the indictment falls solely on Kasten and later, Babcock. Look at the draft picks back then (and even now). Notice how they sat on their hands and cried 'salary cap' while Detroit and later, Chicago got better and past them by. Nique had to carry entire rosters into the playoffs who for the most part couldn't beat me in a game of H-O-R-S-E around the perimeter. That's not my opinion, its a known FACT. And just as the Hawks got it right and started winning again in 1993-94, Babs and company send him off to NBA-Siberia for a guy that not only didn't show up when he was needed most (Round 2 against the Pacers) but come to find out, had already had his plane ticket to Phoenix punched the very second they were eliminated by Indiana. It STILL makes my blood boil over thinking about the trade and what could've been; name another team in sports that traded away its franchise player in the middle of a championship run. It would've been different if they were hovering around .500 but they were 36-15 when the trade took place; to put it in perspective, they haven't won 36 games in a season since 1998. Sports fans have short memories but not in this town; there are literally thousands of folks here who haven't stepped foot into the building since the trade and probably won't until they advance further than Nique carried them (because in all honesty, they HAVEN'T). Well, I stand corrected; remember Nique Night? That's when 20,000+ (including myself) came from nowhere and booed Kasten six ways to Sunday. If Babs wasn't on his 'scouting trip' a riot may have taken place. And you wonder why fans don't bother showing up? If the upper management doesn't really care, WHY SHOULD ANYONE ELSE????

I think that one of the major problems with this team is a lack of chemistry because the major pieces keep changing year after year and no continuity can ever be formed from that. If they can somehow get another ballhandler on the roster to help bring down that hideous turnover stat of theirs, a tough guy in the paint, and possibly another outside shooter who's taller than 6'1", they'll be find eventually. Brent Barry could solve both the ballhandling and shooting; isn't Larry Hughes a free agent this summer? I'm not as much a fan of his as I am of Barry but [censored], why not give it shot??

If I had a dollar every time the Hawks would play hot potato with the ball until there was five seconds on the shotclock, only to give the ball to 'Nique because they couldn't do anything with it, my student loans would be paid by now. [censored] right, 'Nique was a great player, the best in the history of this sorry franchise. If he had nearly the talent around him as his fellow counterparts that won titles did, he'd had been touted as one of the best in NBA history at his position just like Magic, Jordan, Isiah, and Bird was and still is today. Again, the front office failed miserably in putting pieces around him and therefore, his teams continued to lose in the postseason. And you wonder why this team receives so little respect around the league? Not only can they not draft straight but only they can come up with a reason to trade off their best player in the midst of their best season record-wise for a guy that publicly stated that he didn't want to be here in the first place. And who said that Babs and Kasten didn't have an original thought in their heads.

In my opinion, Dominique was one of the best small forwards in the history of the league. The fact that he couldn't steer the Hawks out of the second round was more of an indictment on the front office (read Kasten, later Babcock)than on him. The reason he had to dominate the ball and shoot as much as he did was because of the surrounding talent (or lack thereof) on those teams he played on. Who else were you going to trust to make a shot on that squad? Kevin Willis? John Battle? Mike McGee? Tree Rollins??! I heard folks talk about his teams not getting past the second round of the playoffs. Well, let's evaluate, shall we...... Boston had Larry Bird (along with Robert Parrish, Kevin Mchale, Dennis Johnson, and Danny Ainge). Laugh about me putting Ainge on the list but he represents one more pure threat from the perimeter than Nique had during his time here. Detroit had Isiah Thomas (along with Joe Dumars, which gave them one of the best backcourts in the league. Again, name a perimeter scorer on any of those Hawk teams and no, Randy Wittman's 11 a night doesn't count. I can go on with Laimbeer, Rodman, Aguirre, John Salley, and James Edwards but why?) Chicago had Jordan (and the best all-around player in Pippen, Grant, Rodman, a stable of outside shooters (see Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr) and big men to give away fouls and minutes. 'Nuff said. We all know what the Lakers had with Magic, Worthy, Scott, and Kareem. What do those teams have in common that the Hawks didn't? SUPPORT AROUND THEIR SUPERSTAR PLAYERS. In the playoffs, it doesn't really matter how good you are as a player, if you don't have enough surrounding talent to help your cause, YOU LOSE. There's a reason why KG hasn't sniffed the second round of the playoffs and why Tracy McGrady is watching the NBA Finals with you and me and it isn't entirely because of their performance. Before you take shots at 'Nique's lack of defense, passing, and leadership, take a look at the rosters around him. Take a long look at what he had to work with all those years.

My thoughts exactly. It amazes me why people continue to pile on this city for having the common sense not to spend $$$ on a consistently bad product. Why go to a bad movie when you already know the ending? What the [censored] is so wrong with that notion? Give me something worth spending my hard-earned dollars for and I'll come; otherwise, don't bother. That's the way its done in movies and other forms of entertainment. Now don't get me wrong; I've been a lifelong fan of the Hawks, Braves, Falcons, as well as the Thrashers but I utterly refuse to spend $$$ when the results aren't there. It would be an entirely different story if the Hawks had a few more banners hanging up in the rafters of Philips Arena. If they had been in an NBA Finals or two, even if they been conference finalists on a few occasions. When was the last big game the Hawks had been in that the entire basketball world stopped and took notice? No one cares about beating the Kings in March; give me some victories in May and June when it really MATTERS. If the Hawks had only done that throughout their 35 years here, then, and ONLY then would I agree with you. But they've never reached that level, haven't they??? As bad as the Falcons have been, even they can say that they've played one more big game than the Hawks have. At least they have a trophy that they've won since the Kennedy era that means something. Call it fairweathered, call it what you want. You know what I call it? HUMAN NATURE.

I don't quite know how to put the prediction in my signature so I'll give my prediction here. The key to the entire season is health. If folks are going down right and left like last season, expect more of the same results. But if they're healthy, few teams in the East have as much talent and depth on paper even without Dermarr Johnson. The pressure is on Lon Kruger to get it done or get the resume ready; a 36-46 season won't do. There is no way that you can have this amount of talent on the roster and only improve by 2-5 games without some significant injuries, which IMHO will be the only thing that prevents them from making the playoffs (although a little more bulk wouldn't hurt either). With the addition of Robinson, Ham, and a returning (and hopefully healthy) Theo Ratliff, I think they improve by 14 games, go 47-35 and ruin someone's season in the playoffs. This year, the playoffs; next year will be damn scary.

writes better than most of these 'experts' out here. I bet that most of them still think that we need a bigger PG so that JT can play the 2. Ridiculous. I guess when the Hawks win 51 games and are playing in the Eastern Finals they'll come along. Then again, I doubt it.