Dejay

To me, no one outside of JJ and perhaps Zaza is safe. IMHO, no one besides those two has played consistently ALL SEASON LONG who is not a free agent (cough cough AL), merits the right to be deemed untouchable. In order to get something of value, you must be willing to move something of value. You can't acquire a KG, Jermaine O'Neal, or a Baron Davis for that matter (no, I DON'T want him here) and give back Donta Smith and a 2nd rounder. Sure, I'd love to keep Josh Smith and Marvin like the next guy but if the right offer comes down, where we can get an All-Star caliber player right now, to make you playoff contenders RIGHT NOW, especially without a ton of baggage, it has to be at the very least, explored upon. Again, you have to at the very least, give the impression that you are willing to do what is necessary to make this overdue playoff departure worth enduring. Woodson has to know that, the players (who will become free agents one day) have to know that, and the fans who pay the freight RIGHT NOW and not 3-4 years down the road have to know that and staying status quo and continue the slow 'rebuilding' process just won't cut it.

Fantastic finish to a great game. Sure Nash was mugged but if they would've hit a few of those chip shots, they would not have been in that position in the first place. Not that I'm a Lakers fan (because I'm not) but I want them to win this series badly. It couldn't happen to a nicer group of fans who have been giving us grief for the JJ/Diaw trade all year long, as if JJ turned into Dion Glover once he donned Hawk gear. No need to go down this road again but as Ron Harper once said to Alonzo Mourning after the Bulls beat the Heat in the playoffs, 'have a happy 'effin' summer vacation, Sun fans.

I agree with JB here. There is no way this franchise, under the current ownership, could survive another 3-4 years of losing basketball, especially in this town. How can you do that AND convince the Joshes and Marvin to stay around when they hit free agency? This team is already losing $15-20 million a year right now with everyone under the impression that there is at least some hope with the young guys to make the playoff hiatus worthwhile; how will things look in Philips if this goes on for ANOTHER 3-4 years and that hope eventually fades away? This team has the 2nd worst attendance in the NBA (not that I blame ANYONE for not spending hard-earned $$$ on a bad product, which it is), is considered the national joke of the NBA, with Philips Arena being widely regarded as the current house of frustration because the only playoff game that it has ever hosted was for an arena league team. Atlanta is not the type of town that supports losers of ANY kind (as the Braves will surely attest; on a side note, boy, does their bullpen stink). This isn't one of these one-team NBA towns like Portland, San Antonio, or Salt Lake where you can still get a near-packed house for a team who is TRYING hard but losing. They have to find a way in the playoffs next season. It is imperative for the morale of the Hawk fans, the team, management, hell, the city for that matter. If it means 'selling out' to get an 'insert All-Star caliber player here', so be it. GAME, SET, MATCH.

I couldn't disagree there; he looks like a keeper and someone you have to consider. I would like to look at his footspeed and strength though because that tends to vary looking at them against international competition as opposed to playing NBA competition. Is he as strong and fast as the video puts out? If he is, he has to be considered. I know picking him definitely wouldn't sit well with many folks in this town because race tends to play into about 99.999% of things that go on here but if the guy can play, the guy can play. Alexander Volkov, Jon Koncak, Adam Keefe, and Priest Lauderdale, he is NOT.

Remember back in 1990 when Seattle and Atlanta had identical records and the Sonics won a coin toss for the extra ping pong ball. They ended up with Gary Payton; the Hawks ended up with Rumeal Robinson. Need I say more?

And with that said, this ENDS the Boris Diaw discussion, folks. He used to play here (if you want to call it that) and is doing well in Phoenix. More power to him and I wish him well in the playoffs (then again, maybe not, that way we all can see whether Bill Walton can find another guy's jockstrap to attach himself to if the Suns go away early). If you really like Diaw so much, find the Suns board and become a member there. Otherwise, this isn't a discussion anymore. Meanwhile, I'll take Joe Johnson and the 21/6/4 he's giving us right now while constantly being guarded by the opposing team's best perimeter defender with literally the SAME roster that won only 13 games last season. And considering that he is only 25, if he's getting those stats with a bunch of rookies (Stoudamire/Williams/Bautista), 2nd year players (Childress/Smith/Ivey), journeymen (Grundy/Edwards/Lue/Pachulia), and a former 6th man (Harrington) riding shotgun with him, the sky's the limit as to where his numbers will be once a big man and another ballhandler gets added to the roster and the aforementioned players mature. Again, END OF DISCUSSION AND THREAD. Thank you.

You just stated what I've been saying for the longest. Woodson simply asked Diaw to shoot the occasional WIDE OPEN shot ALONG WITH help the team with his skillset and Diaw not only refused but whined, cried, and bitched about it to the media ad nauseum. Now that he is on a team that is scoring nearly 110+ points a game, he is all of the sudden getting praise like he's the second coming (at least you would've thought he was the way Bill Walton was hugging his sack tonight, comparing him to Beethoven and all). And he likely would be playing in France right now had the Hawks decided to keep him so for folks to say that he would have those same numbers here is total BS to the fifth power. The coach gave him a role to play; he complained and refused to do so and was gone as he should've been. Let's put this in a way so that the Duke guy gets it. Coach K recruits a blue-chipper to Duke. He gives him a role to play in order to help the TEAM win. The player, thinking he knows more than Coach K, not only whines about his role to the school paper as well as anyone else with a microphone but blatently refuses to do it. He transfers to another school a couple of years later and, lo and behold, because his new school plays a more uptempo style, his stats go up. Would you be writing letters to Duke's athletic office asking for Coach K's resignation for letting him go? I doubt it seriously. Not to compare the success of Coach K to Woodson but there is a reason why Woodson is the coach and Diaw isn't. Unless you believe that a player who previous to this season did nothing to remind anyone of Bernard King, Nique, or Derrick Coleman for that matter, deserves to right to call the shots.

I agree totally. If I had a dollar every time Boris had wide ass open shots in Hawk gear, only to pass the ball out, my student loans would be paid with change coming back. He probably would've opted for France if the deal wasn't made so to assume he would've had the same stats here doesn't hold much water. Make no mistakes, he has skills. But he never, EVER, displayed much of them or even bothered to when the occasion called for it. He stole $$$ in Hawk gear, constantly whining about the Hawks (i.e. coaching staff) needing to adjust to 'his style' of play. Isn't it the PLAYER'S responsibility to make the adjustments, especially if you're coming off your ROOKIE SEASON where you didn't remind anyone of Alex English? I'm glad he's doing something in Phoenix; it's too bad he didn't bother to here.

I'm with you here. Do you want to wait 3-5 years on ANOTHER greenhorn to get his bearings or go for the sure thing right now? What would make this deal so ridiculous? KG would instantly have a better teammate here (JJ) than he did in his entire tenure in Wolves gear. Partner him up with Smith, JJ, another ballhandler (Bobby Jackson or Claxton would do) and another big man (Evans, Butler, hell, anyone) and why would they not contend in the East? How many single-digit losses this team have this season anyway, about 30? That alone should tell you that while they are not ready yet, they aren't too far away, either. Cut those close losses in half and they're in the playoffs THIS YEAR. I'd do the deal yesterday and twice on Sunday. Besides, look at what happened in Miami after they brought in Shaq, who we all knew was past his prime but still productive (when healthy). Miami wasn't a prime destination for free agents before he got there; they had just as hard a time selling tickets as the Hawks do now. Now every seat is sold in their arena and players are plowing over each other to be a part of it. Isn't that the reason you go after a guy of KG's caliber in the first place? And the Clippers surely aren't thinking about how many candles will be on Sam Cassell's birthday cake these days, aren't they? Yes they had Elton Brand and a few others before he got there but how many times were they over .500 in the last five years before Cassell arrived? The last ten?? Realistically, while I think that KG will be dealt in the not too distant future, it is doubtful that he comes here. However, when thinking about it, it isn't the most preposturous scenario I've ever seen on this board. Think about the teams that would be in position to bring in KG considering the cap. Not too many. Sure, there are other teams with more talent to send back Minnesota's way but they may not be so willing to part with it for a 30-year old that's been in the league a dozen years. That would make quite a splash on Draft Day, don't you think?

Kasten drafted Kevin Willis, not Babcock. Not only couldn't he draft an All-Star (nor could anyone else; Willis is STILL the last drafted All-Star for the Hawks from the class of 1984), but JT is the only one with a career average CLOSE TO DOUBLE FIGURES. In fact, the guys Babs brought in weren't even close to All-Star caliber. Can you imagine how bad of shape this franchise would be in if he didn't make the occasional good trade or two? That explains why there wasn't any depth at all on any of those teams and also why Mookie, Smitty, and Co. had to play 35-40 minutes a night to have a chance at winning and eventually broke down once the real season began in April.

Babs was given a playoff team to start with when he came aboard in 1990 that was not far removed from having 4 consecutive 50-win seasons and one of the most exciting 7-game playoff series in NBA history. They only won one, count 'em, ONE division title (93-94) in his tenure and was dismissed by the Pacers in one of the most embarrassing second round series seen for a number one seed by getting blown out in three of the four losses. He was also the guy who orchestrated one of the worst trades in pro sports by sending a franchise player who carried an entire team on his back for more than a decade for a guy who didn't want to spend minute one in Hawk gear. In a potential championship season, no less. Would any other GM do something that stupid to alienate 3/4's of your fanbase. This team is STILL trying to find the next 'Nique while no one mentions the name Danny Manning. And do you really want to go there with the draft picks? I'm no fan of Childress or Williams but I've seen them score 10+ in a game before, which is FAR more than any draftee Babs have brought in whose name isn't Jason Terry. Not to mention that for the most part, Babs had the full support of the folks in charge, whether it was Kasten (who should bear the blame for enabling him), McGuirk, or even Turner while BK is still having to go through this ATL Spirit mess. The only thing BK inherited was the mess that Babs had left. I for one don't think the world of him either (Deng/Paul or Childress/Williams anyone?) but considering what he had to work with compared to Babs, this isn't a contest; its a rout.

They did have a higher pick than #2 back in 1975 when they drafted David Thompson with the #1 pick and and Marvin Webster with the #3 pick. Unfortunately, they both ditched town for the ABA's Denver Nuggets and never played a second in Hawk gear. Koncak was taken 5th in the 1985 draft, ahead of (roll call), Joe Dumars, Detlef Schrempf, A.C. Green, Terry Porter, Chris Mullin, and that Malone guy (I heard he became some power forward in Utah somewhere). I do agree with Wretch and several others who expect more from a #2 pick. If they took a guy one year removed from HS coming off a 50-32 campaign with the #2 pick (obtained via trade ala 1989 Bulls), of course you would expect them to bring him along slowly because they are in position to win/contend right away. However, if the team is coming off a 13-69 campaign and hasn't made the playoffs in SEVEN YEARS, I expect him to instantly make a splash or two or twelve in his rookie year. I don't care if there are twenty Adam Keefes and Ennis Whatleys picked behind him. My expectations would be HIGH.

I couldn't agree more, Wretch. Exactly how many more drafts do we have to wait on a guy to make a serious impact? I mean, how can a pro sports franchise in this country go 22 years (and counting) between drafting All-Stars and expect folks like us not to call them out for it? How can you go 22 years and draft only ONE GUY (JT) with a career scoring average in double figures? That's INSANE, folks. And we all have heard the excuses before....(roll call)... 'We don't draft high enough to get those type of impact players' 'We drafted (insert bad pick here) based on the best player available' 'We needed a big man because we only have one guy above 6'9" on the roster (used to justify Adam Keefe donning Hawk gear)' And now that they are picking in the lottery every year, it can be said that they have YET to get it right. There are second-rounders that this franchise has overlooked who have been to All-Star games and/or have been impactful for their teams (see Gilbert Arenas, Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, et al). While I don't know everyone on this board, we all have been Hawk fans for a very long time. For all of our loyalty, when is the payoff going to come? I've heard about being patient and waiting on the potential to come through, but when will enough be enough?

I have to agree with you there regarding Chris Paul. Imagine if the Hawks had taken him instead of Marvin Williams. He has virtually taken the Hornets to contending for the playoffs single-handedly; what would he have done with this team of 'potential', especially with JJ and Al riding shotgun in the lineup, in the EAST? You could probably shave off 12-15 losses from the register right now. We would be arguing about other things like why he didn't make the All-Star team, which playoff seed we'll end up with, why we will or will not have homecourt advantage, etc. instead of another miserable season. I also agree that a turnaround doesn't take all that long if, and ONLY if, your front office truly knows what its doing. There is a difference between how teams like the Pistons do business and how the 'usual suspects' (i.e. Warriors, Hawks, Clippers of old) do it. As far as 'instant gratification', I'm all for it. We all have been long-time Hawk fans, with most of us having watched John Drew's cocaine addiction, Nique getting the Atlas award for carrying the franchise on his back, and Mookie, Smitty, Deke, JT, Alan Henderson deciding which suit to wear to the game, etc. And for our loyalty to this franchise, when will our payoff arrive? Even Falcon fans know what a championship game looks like. There's nothing wrong with simply asking when will the turnaround happen, regardless of which 'regime' was in control. Simply writing off the other five seasons prior to BK's arrival doesn't hold water to anyone that bought a ticket or watched one second of Hawks basketball during that time. GAME, SET, MATCH.

You're not kidding in regards to Nique. Those days take me back.....

Hate to say it but I agree with Northclyde and Diesel here. The mere suggestion that the Hawks were not close to winning the NBA title the season Dominique was traded is asinine to the nth power. Last I recall, Jordan was 'retired', Isiah Thomas was injured and on his way to retirement, not to mention Magic's situation at the time. If anytime was the perfect time for Nique to get the ring that he long deserved, and sit proudly among the upper echelon of players that have rings on their fingers and are now first-ballot HOF'ers, that was it (do you think Nique's detractors would talk about him hogging the ball if he had the opportunity to hold up that trophy? I doubt it). That team was the top seed in the East BEFORE THE TRADE, having beaten most of the contenders, including slapping the Rockets senseless in the Omni when they started the season 14-0. That team was already a Finals contender; one shooter would have put them over the top (of course, you could attach that claim to 1986-1989 as well). Babs and Lenny got what they wanted after Manning came to town; a younger, better 'all-around' player. However, they never had the foresight to realize that in order to get to the Finals, especially back then, it was paramount to have a go-to, no doubt who was getting the ball with .000005 on the clock, with four guys draped on him like a cheap table cloth player to put the ball in the basket and they had NOBODY after Nique was gone. The Pacers quickly exposed Manning to be the fraud of a player to build a team around, embarrassing the Hawks in a series that really wasn't that close. Atlanta sports fans already foresaw this when the trade went down and, well, no need to rehash the immense backlash the Hawks have felt, even to this day. What turned the front office even more for a loop was how callous Manning was toward them after they were eliminated; how many seconds did it take for him to get to Phoenix anyway? Short of the NBA title, there was no amount of PR in the world that could possibly spin that as a good move, not now, not ever. How one could honestly say that the Hawks wouldn't have advanced to the Eastern Finals AT THE VERY LEAST had that hideous move had been left on the table is beyond me. Ever since that day of infamy, the Hawks have been looking for someone to embody what Dominique brought to the franchise. Hopefully, Marvin or at least one of the Joshes can fill this much-needed position soon. Its been vacant for a dozen years now.

Nope, for him to get it, BK would have to get hit over the head with a metal folding chair, a 2 by 4, a cowbell, a tire iron, and a loaded boot to realize that this bunch need a point guard.

The attendance is quite good considering a 2-16 start, UGA winning the SEC, not one but two big bowl games within a week of each other featuring three top-10 teams, and Michael Vick playing down the street. In fact, we've played the second-fewest home games in the league coming into tonight. I don't know what the crowd was tonight but it looked as if it was a good one again. If they keep improving their on-court play, the attendance will keep increasing. Looking at this list, I noticed that the more 'passionate' city of Philadelphia (you know, the town that every national sports columnist claims supports their teams through thick and thin), and one-team cities like Portland and Orlando were behind us in attendance. In fact, Boston wasn't that far in front of us, either. Since the 'we have the common sense not to spend hard-earned $$$ on a mediocre product' didn't fly for us here, what's their excuse? But you'll never, EVER see these numbers coming from the folks in the national media, won't you?

I'm sort of torn on it to be honest with you. In one hand, you have Chris Paul lighting it up in New Orleans/Baton Rouge/Oklahoma City and in the other, you have Marvin Williams, while stilling learning and having flashes of good play, he still finds himself riding the pines behind Smith and Childress. Despite the disparity of minutes between Paul and Williams, there is no question that Paul has had a greater impact on his team so far. Just how many more wins would the Hawks have right now if Paul was on this team, getting the ball to guys in the right spots where they can best succeed? While I mostly agree on the upside of Williams, you can only go so many years with a glaring weakness on your roster (PG/C) and not make a conscious effort to address it. If Marvin Williams becomes all that we think (and hope) he is in a couple of years, then it was worth it, only if the right move is made with Harrington to bring in a PG or a big man to compliment Zaza and not any player collecting an NBA check; a good one. If it doesn't.....

You're not kidding, KB. I was thinking the same thing when I first saw the thread. But I guess we both should have known better considering how long we've been on this board.

Very sad indeed. Take it light, JC and keeps those 20-footers floating in Heaven. Hope to see you up there one day.....

Does anybody see him putting up 20/6/6 like JJ? Until that happens, we STILL got the better end of this deal by a metric ton. And as for his summer league exploits, I really don't take stock in that. That and $20 will get you a good entree at Applebees but it won't do you much good if it doesn't translate to games that matter. Dion Glover won a summer league MVP a few years ago, remember? That did him a ton of good once the real season started because he still couldn't outshoot me around the perimeter.

I thought the Hawks wanted to have a POSITIVE offseason; a Henderson signing would set the team back. Why don't we find Jon Koncak and Blair Rasmussen while we're at it. Hell, Big Dog Robinson isn't doing too much nowadays and we could use another shooter, sign him too (note sarcasm). I don't want anything, and I mean ANYTHING to do with Henderson coming back. He spent more time in a suit during Hawk games than most pastors do on Sundays. Even going back to the good 'ol days at the AJC/Access Atlanta forums, I never liked his skills (or lack thereof), let alone his lack of toughness and athleticism. You expect him of all people to be your enforcer in the paint? You might as well bring back Kevin Willis and Drobnac. The man should not only play for the Hawks for free, he should be paying the Hawks just to have him back on the f'n roster!! Just say NOOOOOO....

Lets see, Mitch Albom, Ray Ratto, Van Earl Wright, Jackie McMullen, Michael Wilbon, insert any Sportscenter anchor, the entire TNT crew. Anyone else?

An article written from the national media that doesn't bash the Hawks or Atlanta concerning this move. I totally agree that this move is well worth Diaw and the draft picks. We all agree that this team likely won't be hoisting up championship banners for a while but for this team to take that next step in the rebuilding process, this move had to be made. Not only do the Hawks get the first free agent that other teams actually wanted since the Mutombo days but they have a new mouthpiece to possibly entice a few others to follow his lead (cough, cough, Steven Hunter, cough, Tyson Chandler). Is Diaw more versatile than Johnson? A better shooter? Will he be the one that other teams have to focus on to stop in order to win a game? Ummm, NOPE. That makes this a no-brainer in my book. The contract maybe huge but what else were you going to do to bring him in?