hawkman

It would be great if we end up with 1-3 and Indy's pick. That way we could get both Oden/Thabeet and Steele/James. I think both additions would be able to contribute right away on this team.

I hear a lot of talk about bigs in this draft but no one talks about our other position of need, PG. Assuming Phoenix gets our lottery pick, how about Dominic James as the 18th(?). I haven't seen a lot of him yet, but from what I've read he's just what we're looking for. He's a little on the small side but makes up for it with his athleticism. He's also an agressive defender with 2.1 stls per. I'm looking forward to seeing a Marquette game this season to see this guy for myself. If we only get Indy's pick this offseason, I see no reason to pick a big just for the sake of picking up a big. We don't need another big stiff on this team. Why not fill a need AND get a quality player? I think Dominic James can be that guy.

Durant is the truth, plain and simple. He plays like a superstar. He just has that edge that a big time player has. He has actual offensive moves, and those are things I can't really say about Marv right now. That's the difference between a Marvin Williams and a Carmelo Anthony. Similar skills, similar athleticism, but a different mentality and approach to the game. When I heard many hear talking about Marvin as a potential superstar, I just didn't see it. He will definitely be a player, but not a superstar. I can't say the same about Durant. I truly believe that not only does he have superstar potential, but that he will contribute right away. He's simply too talented not to. He's got the skills AND the mentality. I guess we'll have to wait until the tournament to see whether he steps up. If he does, then that's all the confirmation that I'll need. I'm not advocating that we pick Durant if a strong big is available, but I wouldn't complain if we get him. We could always make trades to get whatever else we need from the draft.

I sincerely don't feel that any of these players we drafted recently are capable of dominating an NBA game. Strangely enough, it was JSmith who seemed to have the most impact on the floor. I never would have expected that. Smoove is capable of blocking a fastbreak layup, keeping the ball inbounds, and then launching the break himself and finishing on the other end with either a dunk or pass. Marv brings athletecism and decent shooting but he's not a good passer and he's kind of a weak rebounder. Right now, his mentality doesn't lend itself to him being a dominant player. Maybe that'll change in the future. I personally like Childress' game. The outside shooting isn't really there but he brings instant energy and surprisingly good interior play for a guy his size. That's kind of a strange question though. I always thought that BK was drafting supporting cast players in hopes of bringing in a superstar through free agency. It's hard for me to imagine him realistically thinking that any of his draft picks so far would be dominant players in the league.

Quote: Quote: I said that it was a mistake to have the pick only top 3 protected instead of lottery protected. That's just pure arrogance right there on BK's part. First of all, Phoenix didn't have to trade with us. Therefore the stipulations was in their court and not ours. That's why I brought up the JJ trade. In my eyes, we were really trading a big ball of nothing for JJ because Phoenix really didn't need anything we gave them as much as we needed JJ. Therefore with them setting the terms of the deal, they get what they ask for. That's why I find it funny to see all these complaints about the trade. We made a deal based on what Phoenix wanted from us. Now, we could have stuck our lip out and said, we want to take off this and that and JJ would be a Knick right now or he would be a King right now... JJ was the only present commodity in that trade. We gave them future. So we can't complain about what we gave because we got what we wanted out of the deal. All we can do is enjoy having our franchise player and do the best with what we have. That's the whole point of negotiation. They make a high offer, we counter that with a lower offer. You say that we gave up a whole ball of nothing. With our team hitting the skids, does it seem like a whole ball of nothing now? Do you think offering them our lottery protected pick instead of a top 3 protected pick would really have been a deal breaker? I doubt it. I bet Phoenix thought that we would never agree to that deal as it stood at that time. That detail was small to them but huge to us. At least admit that this is a valid point. At least give me that much.

Quote: I don't think it was a mistake to make the Phoenix trade. I can't believe you're bitching about getting a franchise player. Would you rather have: Diaw, last years Philly Pick, and this year's pick back?? That's what you're saying.... Oh, let me add... Diaw would be in France right now. He would not have resigned with Atlanta. So, ask Phoenix... If they would take Joe Johnson Back and they give us this years pick and the compensation that they got for last years pick.... Otherwise, quit bitching about the trade. Please don't put words in my mouth. Where did this Diaw stuff come from??? I didn't even mention Diaw in my post. I didn't even say it was a mistake to trade our pick this year. I said that it was a mistake to have the pick only top 3 protected instead of lottery protected. That's just pure arrogance right there on BK's part. If everyone who co-signed this mistake would just read my post word for word instead of being so overly sensitive about any opinion that differentiates from their own, they could see the arrogance of BK's decision. It's good for the GM to be confident in his product, but it's arrogant to not have some sort of contingency plan. Having that pick lottery protected instead of top 3 protected would have been such a contingency plan in the unfathomable event that we didn't make the playoffs. I'm not complaining, it's just an observation. Calm down.

Quote: But a top 3 pick would entice many otherwise skeptical GMs and coaches to consider joining this ship and if acquired and retained should be the single most important bargaining chip in revitalizing this franchise. W Heck, we may not even get a top 3 pick. Remember that great trade that our genius of a GM made for JJ? He was so confident(see arrogant) that we would be in the playoff race this season that our pick is only top 3 protected rather than lottery protected. It's possible that we can continue our recent trend of stinking until the end of the season, and guess who gets our pick if it's not in the top three? The friggin Phoenix Suns!!!!! One of the best teams in the league!!!!! This is just too much. Like I said before, this situation is so bad that it's actually kinda funny at times.

Quote: I think the owners are more powerless than BK and Woody. Not sure they can make changes given the split, and if they can afford it. LIke I said, it could get really ugly before its over. Something has got to give. Stern needs to step in or something. The owners are battling for the franchise, the coach is clueless, and the team has basically quit. We're dead in the water. There has to be a way to fix this. It's extremely hard to be a Hawks fan right now.

Have we quit???? Im serious....Is this the kind of effort we can expect for the rest of the season???? I'm not complaining. I'm not griping. I just want to know what to expect this Sunday against the Spurs.

Quote: Quote: I was really hurt after reading about the Ced Ceballos incident. Our front office got a reputation for being inept. I remember that but it paled in comparison to the JJ and Al Harrington fiascos current ownership and management have managed. If I were a legit FA, even with our remaining cap space, I'd run not walk to another team. W That whole Harrington thing made us look pretty bad. Harrington was a pretty class guy when he was here and I hated to see things go like they did in the end for him. The last time we played Indiana, Harrington stated that he flat out did not like BK or have any respect for him. Personally, I don't blame him. Stringing players and other GM's along like that is a good way to get a bad rep in the league. I'm surprised that any team would want to deal with the Hawks at this point.

Where's Hotlanta when you need him? I'll make this brief: THEY BOTH STINK ON ICE AND SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MANAGE A POPEYE'S CHICKEN AND BISCUITS, LET ALONE AN NBA FRANCHISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote: I wish Iverson was here in the ATL playing alongside JJ, Smoove, Zaza and Chill or Marvin. We would all be talking on this board like we just banged the prom queen. Amen. Instead we have to sit around and complain about everything like a bunch of bored old men and look back at the Babcock era as the "good ole days" You gotta love this franchise. It's so bad that it's actually kind of funny. Great job BK, we are truly headed in the right direction.

Quote: I totally agree Hawkman! It just hurts that we didn't make a play for him. Honestly all I think he really needed was a change of scenery and a actually all-star to play next to like a Melo or a JJ. Plus the owners would be instantly rich because Phillips would be selling out every night. But then again maybe the ownership issues kept us from getting AI but BK did say he contacted Philly about AI so that tells me we could have traded for him. I read an article which compared Iverson's situation to that of Charles Barkley. Barkley didn't exactly have a sterling reputation at the time he was traded. In fact, many here would have thought of him as a selfish, lazy, ballhog who could be a potential locker room cancer. But look what he did in Phoenix! Our team was made for Iverson. We have no offensive sets and none of our players can create their own offense(except for JJ). Iverson would have compensated for all of our coaching and player shortcomings by lauching the break and improvising with either a shot or a pass. Nobody can stay in front him, so that would make the penetrate and kickout easy. Could you imagine a pick and roll with him and JJ? We blew this one. We had our chance for relevance and we blew it because we were too scared to take a chance. PATHETIC!!!!!

Quote: Quote: Durant is incredible. If it weren't for Oden, this would be the Durant draft. He would have been number 1 the last two years, IMO. Amen. He's gonna be better than Oden, I personally think... I saw him play last week and he's as good as advertised. But he is a little too thin right now though. Highly skilled though. Kinda reminds me of Carmelo. I almost forgot what it looked like to see a 6'9" SF with actual offensive moves. Makes me wonder what Marvin could have done in a similar situation to the one Durant has in Texas. Could he have carried that team? Anyway, this guy is the real deal and it would not be a stretch if he was picked #1 overall.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Your right but with JJ here and our young talent in Smoove and Chill I think he would realize he could take this team to the playoffs easily especially in the Eastern Conference. And AI loves the ATL from what I've heard. He has a home here too! And you can add to that the fact that we had a pretty decent record at the time all of this Iverson trade stuff came up. I believe it was OUR decision not to go through with it, not HIS. If I'm correct, BK actually called Philly about him but stated that they wanted our "young talent" and that he was not willing to give that up. I agree with that up to a point, but if they wanted Marv,Lo Wright+Indiana 1st rounder, how can you NOT make that deal? Philly would definitely have jumped all over that deal, IMO. Then why didn't we make it happen? Do you realize what that deal would have done to the sports culture in the city of Atlanta? I know a lot of people on this board loathe Iverson, but you have to admit that that trade would have easily made the Hawks the most exciting team in the East.

Quote: Your right but with JJ here and our young talent in Smoove and Chill I think he would realize he could take this team to the playoffs easily especially in the Eastern Conference. And AI loves the ATL from what I've heard. He has a home here too! And you can add to that the fact that we had a pretty decent record at the time all of this Iverson trade stuff came up. I believe it was OUR decision not to go through with it, not HIS. If I'm correct, BK actually called Philly about him but stated that they wanted our "young talent" and that he was not willing to give that up. I agree with that up to a point, but if they wanted Marv,Lo Wright+Indiana 1st rounder, how can you NOT make that deal?

Quote: Yeah you are so right man. I mean, its not like Babcock ever got past that mythical thirty win mark. I mean, its not like Babcock traded an aging 'Nique for a younger SF with skills who won a national championship in college and after said SF left managed to sign the top free agent of that year in Dikemebe to a big contracts. Its not like he traded an aging Kevin Willis for Steve Smith and Grant Long. Its not like he traded a draft bust in Robinson for Mookie Blaylock. Its not like he traded two fishes and a barrel for Laettner who was an All-star here. Its not like he brought on Ty Corbin one of the best "glue guys" in the last thirty years in the NBA. Its not like he traded an aging Steve Smith to get CAP RELIEF not Rider. Its not like he traded an aging Mookie for Jason Terry who, I might add, almost won the Finals with another team last year. Its not like he traded Terry for one of the worst chuckers in the NBA like Knight did. Its not like Babcock traded an aging Deke who had NO INTEREST in staying in Atlanta for a young All-star center and a versatile SF with championship experience. Its not like he traded for a young all-Star power forward and an all-star small forward. Its not like he built this team with the ABILITY to EASILY dump payrool for CAP RELIEF in case it did NOT work out. Nope, Pete didn't do anything like that. He sure didn't bring the championship quality teams that Knight has done. Lol!!!! It's so funny because it is oh so true!!!!

Quote: Trust me when Melo and JR come back AI is will change his game and not dominate the ball. He will still average over 7-8 ast. a game though easily. Point is we should have went after AI for a number of reasons like I stated above. He would have made this team so much better with his play along with his experience which we CLEARLY lack. Shoot plus he would have put money in the owners pockets. Good points. He is EXACTLY what this team needs. But hey, we got Medvedenko so that should make up for it.

Quote: Yeah all Pete Babcock did was give us several fifty plus win teams and an extremely consistent playoff team. Knight with his inability to break THIRTY WINS has given us so much more. True indeed. Everyone bashes Babcock but gives BK what amounts to a free pass. I know that Babcock made the worst trade in Hawks history, but at least the team continued to win after that. Don't get me wrong, BK has made some shrewd moves but he also has made some pretty bad decisions. He's great at making moves that dump salary to get your team under the cap, but he's not that good at anything else. He's terrible at PR and is pretty condescending to the fans. His draft night decisions often leave you disappointed. The fact that we telegraphed our pick weeks before the draft when we could have gotten Shelden AND Luther Head left me wondering whether we've been giving this guy too much credit. We didn't do enough to get in on the Iverson deal which could have reinvigorated this tired franchise. He makes it hard to get excited about the Hawks anymore. Has anyone else noted that things have gotten so bad that people actually get excited to hear that we signed the likes of a Speedy, Lo Wright or a Medvedenko? Don't any of you find that kind of pathetic? But a lot of those gripes are kinda superficial. A GM should be judged by the product on the floor. The team as it stands now is his "vision", with the coach and players pretty much hand picked by him. The bottom line is his "team" is far from successful and borderline competitive in a weak Eastern Conference.

Quote: Injuries or not, we look like we're in a different league. It's not a slump - we're simply not good. Thankyou. Sometimes you can be competitive despite your gross shortcomings, and I think the Hawks were just that. I don't know if we have ever had an offensive set since Woody took over. All I remember was Woody saying something about focusing on defense first and that the offense would, "take care of itself". That's not a good plan for a young team that doesn't seem to have much chemistry on the court, and it shows. When you look at the games, you see guys standing around(except Chill or JJ) not exactly knowing what to do. Where are the picks? Where are the back cuts? Where's the pick and roll with Pachulia or Shelden? They both have decent midrange jumpers. We know Salim can score, why not give him some picks or screens and make it easier for him to do what he does best? Why not do the same for JJ? In fact, why not make it easier for all of the players to do what they do best? Why isn't Solomon or Batista on the floor when we need rebounding or interior D? It looks like the players/team aren't being put in a position to succeed. They don't even look like they enjoy the game right now. Any journalist or reporter who watched the last few games or even took a "snapshot" would probably come away asking those same questions and with the opinion that we are a terrible team. Personally, I don't blame them anymore. I'm not a coach or a great basketball mind by any stretch of the imagination, but even I can see that this team is not on the same level as the competition, and that's unfortunate.

Quote: We need to go .500 to make the playoffs. That will require a 32-23 finish. We won't do that with Smoove missing the next 4 weeks. Here's what will happen. The team will continue to dump games until Smoove returns. We'll have the 3rd worst record in the NBA at that point. After he returns, we will play slightly better, but we'll still stink. By then, the whole forum will be talking "Oden". Then, in the last 20 games of the season, we'll go 13-7, vaulting us from the 3rd worst record to 7th or 8th worst. We'll then lose our pick to PHX. Some of us will bemoan that meaningless 20 game "hot streak". Others will berate us for wishing for our team to lose. They will exclaim that the last 20 games gave us "something to build on". Some will remind them of the Dwight Howard draft year. They will spit back with "You're not a real fan!"...except they'll spell it "your", of course. I've been a Hawks fan for a long time. I know how these things tend to shake out. I'm not a big fan of pessimism but I think that your prediction is spot on, all the way down to the bad grammar.

Quote: McDavid had the same problem Belkin has: he has no capital to buy a major sports franchise. There's a fine line between "rich" and "wealthy" and rich only gets you Arena league or ECHL hockey teams. There's no shame in that but it takes wealthy people to be major owners in the four major sports teams. Wouldn't it have been nice if some former Hawks got together to form an ownership group? Better yet, what if the fans formed an ownership group like this soccer team I heard about overseas. I bet the GM would care more about the fans then . That would also end some of this lazy play. I guess that's just wishful thinking though.

Quote: The real issue is that no coach is going to sign here cheaply because of our owners... that's true... But also, no good coach is going to risk being thrown out with the old regime if an ownership change is made. That's why I say get a transitional guy like Westhead who has nothing to lose, everything to gain, and doesn't care about the ownership situation because he has something to prove... if you decide to change coaches. I really don't know if it's even that neccessary when I consider how injured we are. Well hopefully someone in charge(David Stern you out there?) will do something to bring a resolution to this mess. I wouldn't be opposed if Stern just gave the guys back their money and found another owner. Whatever happened to that Mcdavid(?) guy? It's time to end this and start fresh. To be honest, I don't know if Belkin would fire the next coach, especially if Woody and BK are already out the door by then.

Quote: I agree. I don't think our owners don't care. Last year, they were ready to fire Woody and BK stood up for Woody. This year, I just don't think they have the money to bring in another Coach while paying Woody off. By all rights, the next coach should be experienced. With that in mind, they shouldn't fire Woody just to "try" another assistant. I'm willing to wait it out after I see the full compliment of this team. There are some great names that will be available this offseason: Adleman. Van Gundy Fratello Silas. Gentry. Brown. Everybody knows that I would choose Westhead as a transitional coach... But as a full time HC, I would look at Adleman or Gentry. If Belkin gets the team, expect O'Brien or Chris Ford. I understand that this whole ownership mess might affect our ability to change coaches. As I understand it, all owners have to sign off on any major decisions made concerning the team. But one thing that Belkin and the AS should be able to agree on is that this team needs an experienced coach. I don't understand why they would disagree on something that would actually improve the product that they are fighting over. Bring in an Adelman or Westphal right now while this team still has a chance. That change alone should at least be worth 15 games.

Believe me, I have seen enough of the whole "team full of 6'8"-6'9" forwards" thing. I was just saying that it's impossible for BK to mess up this time around. Hibbert is a solid pick if we only have one. It would be nice if we could pick up another 1st rounder though.