hawkman

Quote: Part of me says there is no way anyone would be dumb enough to hire BK, but then someone actually hired Isiah so you never know. but i would bet against it. I really don't care one way or the other as long as he is shown the door here ASAP. Ummmm...I don't know if we're in any position to criticize another team's choice of GM here. I honestly believe that we have the worst ownership/GM/coaching/roster situation in the league right now BY FAR. If I'm wrong on this, please correct me because I hope I'm wrong.

Quote: Tonight the Hawks look like a team that screwed up their draft picks and filled out their team with spare parts from other teams. Lol!!!!!!!!!

Quote: we'll have 20 wins by the all-star break. Werd?????? I don't know man, the all star break isn't that far away if you really think about it. This team is floundering right now WITH Joe Johnson, I'd hate to see what happens if he shuts it down for a while to heal properly. I really thought that this team could at least compete for a playoff spot this year, but now I've pretty much faced reality. To be honest, this is probably one of the most dissapointing seasons that I can remember, and that's saying a lot considering that we went 13-69 a few seasons ago. I wouldn't celebrate if we won 30 games this season. I would never wish for this team to lose but I just don't see the benefit of having another 20-30 win season. If we're going to suck we might as well do it big and get something out of it in the draft.

I have to disagree with you here JB. Oden is a friggin monster in the post plain and simple. He runs the floor exceptionally well and is very athletic. Don't forget that this guy is a teenager right now and he's playing with one hand(wrong hand) at that. He's a manchild and EXACTLY what this team needs. He probably could start over the majority of the centers in this league right now and would definitely replace Pachulia as the starter on this team from day one. If we have a chance to get this guy and don't, then there's no hope for the braintrust of this franchise.

I hate the idea of the Falcons bringing in a college coach at this point. I was really hoping that they would go with an experienced head coachor at least a well respected assistant already with an NFL team. The clock is ticking right now and I was hoping that they were going to make a move to get a Biil Cowher or a Jimmy Johnson.

Quote: Where did I post anything that said I expect you to "fawn" over him? My whole point is that there weren't any comments at all. Nothing positive or negative. Just as if he didn't even play in the game. But before this game, there was plenty of chatter about him. Don't fawn, just comment on what you thought about his game. If tyou thought he played soft at times (which he did), then say that. If you liked that he stopped settling for jumpshots (which he did), then say that. If you wish he'd look to create more for his teammates (which he's not doing enough of), then say that. I am posting about a specific game played by a specific player. But you have to bring up his potential, where he was drafted, and wht he isn't yet. Why not just comment on the games as they happen, in the context of the game itself from time to time? That's what a lot of fans do. Didn't mean to bring up all of that other stuff. I'm just frustrated about the current situation. If you want my honest opinion on his game last night, fine. I though the game itself was garbage. It was hard to watch because I truly believe that the Hawks have officially mailed it in for the season. Marv always seems to do well in games that don't seem to mean much. I don't mean that as a shot at him but it seems to be true. So far, he's played well in two situations: Summer league and garbage time. Last night's game was 48 minutes of garbage time. It was truly a listless performance from the Hawks and it was easy for Marvin to stand out in a game like that. On a positive note, he did mix it up a bit as far as scoring the ball and he played better defense. He was easily the most enthusiastic Hawk out there and I was pleasantly surprised by that.

Quote: It's not anti Marvin or pro Marvin it's shouldn't be anyway. It's pro Hawks. I'm here to support the Hawks. That even includes Marvin. Hell, i was the only one brave and fool enough to believe we could win our next 4.. and that's with Marvin. However, these little microcosisms that seperate us, shouldn't if we're Hawks fans. Last night, we lost as a team and there was really nothing redeeming to pull from it. Exactly. The game last night sucked and there's not much positive you can get from that. I'm definitely not anti-marvin or anti-anything if it can help this team start winning again. I want this team to win so bad but it's just not happening this season. That 4-1 start was probably the worst thing that could have happened because it truly got my hopes up. No more excuses. No more "moral victories". It's time for some results.

Quote: My perception is that the anti-Marvin bandwagon is larger than the pro-Marvin bandwagon. And I also believe from consistently reading this board that the Pro-Marvin fans are more likely to critique his shortcomings than the anti-Marvin fans are to mention his strongsuits and successes. I consider myself a huge Marvin Williams fan, but I've always been honest about his play. I know he's lacking a lot and I'm not afraid to mention it when its evident. It just seems to be a clear signal that when he plays bad, he's mentioned in every other post. When he plays well, there's only ONE post about him until the afternoon following the game. That to me speaks volumes. The majority of the posters here are ready to close the book on Marvin, and they'd rather see him fail and get traded than slowly progress and grow as a player. That may be due to the fact that Marvin's strongest supporters are always trying to shove his "potential" down everyone's throat who don't agree with him being picked over other players(no names please) in last season's draft. I expected this "superstar" that everyone was talking about and ended up dissapointed. Marvin has the potential to be a good player in this league, but I don't see what all the fuss was about and I'm tired of being told that I'm anti- Marvin or anti-Hawk because I call it like i see it. If he plays well consistently then that's great. But I'm not going to fawn all over him if he scores 26 in garbage time or 23 in a game while everyone else was clearly sleepwalking. Personally, I'm sick of waiting and sick of excuses.

In all honesty though, anybody can have one good game. Willie Burton scored 50 in a game one time. I don't know if anyone here even started criticizing Marv until he had a FEW really bad games. Most of the people on this board seem to give him a free pass if anything. Maybe everyone, including me, need to see this kind of production from him on a more consistent basis before they get back on the Marvin bandwagon. I'd still like to see a better all around game from him though. He looks pretty one dimensional right now.

Craig Ehlo was a very underrated player. He could do a little bit of everything. Very versatile game. Too bad we picked him up toward the end of his career.

Favorite Hawk of all time? No doubt: SNOOP GRAHAM. He looked like some streetball legend that the Hawks signed for the heck of it. I liked his game. Made you think that you could play in the NBA someday. Anybody remember that funky 3 point shot of his?

Quote: doc and nique - great players but i imagine the combo here would be a 2 ring circus. why can't we get a real coach in here? is adelman's cell phone broken or something? Yeah, that's strange. Nobody mentions Adelman. It's like he just disappeared or something. I liked the way his Sacramento team played the game. His coaching style would bring some much needed excitement to Atlanta.

That may be true. He does bring a certain "credibility" to the front line. Honestly, I really wanted Foye, and I'll stick to my guns on that one. I don't understand why we had to fax our decision to every GM picking in the lottery weeks before the draft, but I do understand the Shelden pick itself. BK thought we were a few players away, and that Shelden was one of those players. I still question where we were supposed to play him. Did we draft him specifically to come off of the bench? Anyway, I think we should take a serious look at D. James this offseason. Because if there is any place where intangibles matter most, it's at PG.

Exactly, and I'm not even hating on him being picked 2nd. He just has to show more than what he has so far. He doesn't drive to the hole often, and when he does, he either gets blocked or stripped. He may have a thunderous dunk now and then, but not much else. But it really isn't about all that, it's about his mentality. He scored a lot of points against weak competition during summer league, but most of that seemed to come from the line. He was pretty much getting the superstar treatment out there but that hasn't been the case during the season. Driving to the hole and flailing around doesn't really work unless you're a proven star. He doesn't seem to have any offensive moves or even any post moves. What's up with that? Say what you want about AL, but at least he had some pretty devastating moves around the basket. I thought that MW would AT LEAST be as affective as AL but I haven't seen much improvement in his game at all. MW makes AL look like a beast. He looks like he's trying to be the next Jarvis Hayes instead of the next Jamaal Mashburn. If his ceiling is going to be 17, 6, 0 assists, and below par defense, we could have kept AL and at least had 3-4 assists to go along with that. You can't help but wonder what could have been had we just got what we really needed from that draft. 99.9% of the people on this board would be slurping CP right now, praising BK as a genius(big surprise), comparing Woody to Phil Jackson, and laughing at the team who picked MW. I know I'll get flamed for saying that but it's just my opinion.

That's what separates the good players from the great ones. Magic, MJ, and LBJ had it at that age. Heck, Carmelo actually LED his team to a college championship at that age. If Marv was the basketball prodigy that everyone said he was before the draft, it would have been more evident right now in his play. So far, all I've heard is excuses. It almost seems that those who cosigned him as the 2nd pick feel like they have to defend him. I just have to call it like I see it. He may be a late bloomer, but I haven't seen anything to make me say, "he's the guy". He looks like he could be a good player but not a superstar. Heck, even Hakim Warrick is averaging 14 and 6 right now, is he going to be a superstar? It's hard to explain, but all I can say is that I just don't see what you guys see in this kid to think he will be the next big thing.

Maybe it's time that we look for players who can play this game instead of 6'8" guys with long arms. In all this 6'8" player stuff going on, BK forgot that the best players bring intangibles to the table. That's why a guy like Steve Nash is the MVP. It's definitely not because of his athleticism or a size advantage over other guards. He can play the game, and that's all that matters. Maybe that's why BK's so bad when it comes to finding PG's, he doesn't understand the intagibles that a good PG brings to the table. He insists on putting a "player" at that position to bring the ball up and pass it to the open man. That's not a real PG. Nash, Deron, Kidd, Paul, and heck even AI are PG's. Speedy's cool and all but I really expected more from him at this point. This team still needs a real PG to grow with this team. We desperately need a coach on the floor right now. I can't stress that enough.

Quote: Every game I hope Marvin shows some flash of things to come but in a year and half I haven't seen it. I thought he was a good pick and I just assumed that everyone can't be wrong. Let's remember that almost everyone outside of Diesel believed he was a superstar in the making. But I don't understand and no one every answers this question: what is it that will make him an offensive force in the nba?????????? -he really doesn't shoot well. The form looks good but the ball doesn't go in. -he doesn't handle the ball well. I know he has a bad hand but he fumbled often last year too. -he doesn't seem to be blowing by his man and getting to the hole...ever. You would think in 1 1/2 years we'd see this happen. I'm really not trying to hate on him. I just want someone to explain WHY he will be a great player. Most great players can do 2 things: nail jumpers from all over the court(not open jumpers either) and take their man off the dribble. I'm ready to see it from Marvin. Spot on. I don't doubt his ABILITY but I do question his MENTALITY. He just doesn't seem to have it in him.

Quote: I would imagine they're trying to package Hodge with either Najera -or- Evans. We need either/or...immediately. Preferrably Hodge and Evans. Hodge is a BK type player. I heard that the Nuggets just brought up Hodge from the D-League. Coincidence????? Maybe we can benefit from that Iverson trade afterall.

Quote: People forget he is just 20. He left HS at age 17 so he was a very young college freshman. Marvin is going to be a great player in the league but we may have to wait until he is 22-23 for that to happen. In the interim, we will have to watch him develop. But he will still be a decent piece. All the Marvin hate is going to look really stupid within the next 24 months. Really stupid. I hope your right Texaspete because I just don't see what all the fuss was about. Yeah he can shoot. Yeah he's athletic. You probably could say the same things about Jumaine Jones and Tim Thomas. He has the athleticism and the physical tools. It's his mentality that I'm concerned about. That's what separates the good from the great players. He doesn't seem to fit the mold of other high school phenoms I've seen in the past. That "thing" that those guys had that let you know they were going to be great seems to be lacking in Marv right now. For example look at Oden and Durant, they have that "thing" and it has nothing to do with hype or media coverage. It has everything to do with how you carry yourself on the court. I don't know if that's something you're born with or something that you develop over time. But in any case, I just don't see it in Marv. I really hope that I'm wrong though.

Quote: This kid is a true pg, but he's small. Not sure that is such a big deal if he plays next to JJ. Chances are that there will be a few pg's that emerge as March rolls around. That's when the cream rises to the top. True, it's probably best to wait until tournament time. Since that whole Chris Paul debacle, I truly believe that the height thing is a little overrated. At the end of the day, it all about whether you can play the game. Sometimes the skills you bring to the table can offset any deficiency in size or height.

Quote: Sekou posted this for tomorrow: http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/h.../0103hawks.html Maybe this is what JJ needs. Someone to step up for him as a leader. But Marv has to back that up with his play. Remember, Lo was brought in for leadership in the locker room but his play kind of nullifies that. Marv has to do more than just settle for jump shots and play bad defense. He has the tools, this is a great opportunity to step up.

Great post troubleman. Yuo're absolutely right about the Falcons. The red zone offense was frustrating to watch the past few seasons. We were really exposed when we traded Duckett. We no longer had a guy to fall back on when that ridiculous corner fade route failed on first and second down. I liked Mora, but he kinda fired himself. He picked the worst time to goof up this season and sometimes that's all it takes. And for those Vick haters out there, he's the best thing to happen to the Falcons in the last few years. I don't want this to be another situation similar to that of Nique. He was, for the most part, under appreciated in this town. When he was traded, there was a full page spread showing some fan's opinions about him. The opinions were "mixed", to say the least, and I found that disturbing. That guy WAS Atlanta basketball for almost a decade and yet some people here didn't respect that. I see the same thing with Vick now. Maybe that's why Atlanta is thought of as a bad sports town.

Quote: From today's AJC — How much more of this will Joe Johnson take before he blows up on a teammate, a coach or a Hawks executive about having to carry the entire load? (I know, nobody has to feel sorry for him on payday and all that noise. But just because you sign for the big bucks doesn’t mean you sign up to be ground into dust in the prime of your career because there isn’t adequate support around you). — Who else might be ready to explode now that the good vibrations of early November have subsided? No one likes losing for prolonged periods of time. No one. I guess the speculations that all is not well in Hawk's land was close to home. I don't think he would print this without some foundation. Is the timebomb ticking? I love JJ but he needs to man up. He wanted to come to Atlanta to be THE man and he is paid handsomely to do so. With all due respect, he signed on for this and should have known what he was getting into when he came here. I can understand him being tired or even coming back slowly after his calf injury, but him blowing up at management or a teamate due to the frustration of the current situation is not acceptable. A leader is still a leader when things go bad. Whatever is going on right now, he needs to play through it. It's what he gets paid to do.

Quote: Now that everybody is talking draft, could someone answer me this question... Is this not the worst PG draft in history? I'm not exaggerating. This crop of PG's has to be the worst ever. Not a single PG projects to be a 20 pick, and those listed at the bottom of the 1st round are reaches. I guess we'd have to hope Darren Collison comes out. If that happens, he could be there when we take Indy's selection. Javaris Crittenton might come out, I guess. The following year's draft will be the best for PG's since Paul, Williams, Felton, Jack due to this year's HS senior class being stacked. I don't know. I think that you got at least 3 potential mid-first rounders. Ron Steele, Dominic James, and Javaris Crittenton. Any of those guys could probably start for us right now. If Indy's pick is anywhere from 14-20, I think we should definitely take a look at these three guys.

It would be great if we end up with 1-3 and Indy's pick. That way we could get both Oden/Thabeet and Steele/James. I think both additions would be able to contribute right away on this team.