hawkman

Quote: I know we lost badly last night, but if you watch just the Sportscenter highlights, you would think that we shouldn't be in the league. Last night, in the third, I thought we were about to mount the comeback. Defensively, we had put it together. We even put a few points in like Chillz rumbling, stumbling, bumbling, slowest drive in the world... Still, the SportCenter gang did a good job of accentuating the airballs... I'm sure at one point during the third, we held them to 21% shooting and it looked like it. We got the game to within 8 points. The problem is that our 2nd and 4th scorer on this team are sitting on the bench and we really needed them. I thought Marvin was our 2nd scorer. But seriously, I don't think that it's possible for SportsCenter to make us look any worse than we already are. This organization is a mess at the top and the product on the floor is an indication of that. The product on the floor, from the coach to the last player on the bench, is the manifestation of BK's plan or "vision" with the endorsement of the AS. It's obvious that this thing isn't working. You could come up with valid arguments AGAINST anything BK's done in the last few years, from his draft night decisions to him dumping every single player from the previous regime for next to nothing. Maybe all of the bad press and losing needs to happen right now so that people can finally wise up and face reality. Eveyone can't be wrong about us. This organization is terrible and is in need of a serious overhaul. Sorry for the rant

Quote: we just need a couple wins....right now we're just not getting them...get a couple wins and SOME confidence comes back.... Usually that cures most locker room frustrations. That 4-2 start probably did the team and the fans more harm than good. We think we're on the fast track to the playoffs and then we take a major nose dive....JUST LIKE THOSE ATLANTA FALCONS!!!!

This was the first that I've heard of it. I didn't read anything on the AJC about it. I was shocked that MW was involved, and that is why I posted the article here. I did read in the AJC that Woodson is going to shake up the starting lineup before tonight's game. I get a feeling that we will be seeing a lot more Solomon and Shelden tonight.

This is an article from the Detroit News... You get the feeling things aren't going to end well for Mike Woodson in Atlanta. The former Pistons assistant coach seems to be fighting a no-win battle. The fact he is fighting it as well, with as much tenacity and class as you would think possible, appears to be irrelevant. The Hawks are the youngest team in NBA history. That right there spells imminent doom for any coach. But there is talent there and Woodson has done a brilliant job nurturing it. He has been remarkably patient, despite loss after loss, setback after setback. After a fast start, the Hawks have been in a free-fall, largely because of injuries. The Hawks' top seven players had missed a combined 52 games due to injury before Christmas. As a result, they have lost 12 of their last 16 games. Still, Woodson has never allowed his young players to mope around and feel sorry for themselves. He has never allowed them to accept excuses or quit. Sooner than later, these kids are going to mature and the Hawks are going to be a relevant basketball team. But I doubt Woodson will be around to reap the rewards for all his paternal patience and nurturing. With losses and injuries piling up, the kids seem to be getting restless. There has been a lot of grousing, players like Salim Stoudamire, Marvin Williams and others complaining about their roles and other perceived slights. He and Williams got into shouting match during the Hawks' loss at The Palace last Saturday, forcing Woodson to bench Williams for a stretch. It might not be an all-out revolt, but the seeds of discontent appear to have been planted and watered. It might be only a matter of time before Woodson, who has just one year left on his contract after this season, gets whacked. It's a shame, really, but oh-so predictable. I remember talking to him before he took the job and he knew the odds were stacked against him. He just felt he needed to get that first head coaching opportunity, one way or another. You just hope Woodson gets another head coaching opportunity. You hope potential employers look beyond the won-loss record and consider the growth of those players and the role Woodson played in it. ...It seems like a pretty positive article on Woodson but it does indicate that there are some frustrations in the locker room. Salim I already knew about Salim, but Marvin Williams too? I guess that is to be expected with the current losing streak and all.

Quote: Quote: Just read that. It's been a long time coming. But I still don't know why we signed Slava Medvedenko, he's not that much better. Why do we keep making these lateral moves? because Greg Oden and Joakim Noah are unavailable If we keep making transactions like these, thinking that they will make a difference in this train wreck of a season, they won't be "unavailable" for long.

Just read that. It's been a long time coming. But I still don't know why we signed Slava Medvedenko, he's not that much better. Why do we keep making these lateral moves?

Quote: Quote: He needed that time under Iverson until he was ready to be the man So Iggy just now became ready to be a scorer, just coincidentally at the same time Iverson left. Sure The fact is that he has shot 50% the last two years and would have been scoring a lot more point if he wasn't playing with the biggest ball hog in the league. Well sometimes you're thrown into a situation and you have to step up. Heck, Josh Smith stepped up in JJ's absence.

Quote: Quote: You can apply that same principle to AI and Iggy. Yes i can because Pippen wasn't shooting 10% higher than Jordan when they were playing together. The AI groupies tried to say the only reason Iggy shot such a high percentage with Iverson is because Iverson set him up for easy shots. Now that has been exposed as BS. Not only is Iggy continued to shoot 50% but he is also averaging 22 ppg. And all the Iverson groupies were trying to say that Philly didn't have any other scorers other than Iverson. does anyone really think that either of the Joshs could averaging 22 ppg shooting 50% without JJ? Could Marvin do it? But the thing is that Iggy has always been a complimentary player...well, at least he was in college. He was a do-it-all type of player who often deferred to superior offensive talent. He's always had the athleticism and talent, but he didn't have the mentality. He needed that time under Iverson until he was ready to be the man. When he first came into the league, it shouldn't be a surprise that he deferred to AI. But now he is the GUY and he has to raise his game accordingly. He's done that, and done quite well for himself as of late. But he benefited from the time he played with AI. I'm not an AI groupie, but I think he could have helped a guy like Marvin become the player that many on this board thinks he can become.

Quote: Quote: Post Script: We are now number 4 from the bottom in the league. Seattle 10 17 .370 Atlanta 9 16 .360 Charlotte 7 18 .280 Philadelphia 6 19 .240 Memphis 6 21 .222 To quote Dan Akroid's line in trading places: Sir, you are making a career decision. wow. i didn't realize the collapse was that bad. sheez Maybe this should be stickied so that everyone on this board can see that a change is needed. No matter how bad things have gotten, there always seems to be someone coming up with an excuse to "stay the course". I'm tired of all of the excuses. Some people just don't get the fact that we could very well have an identical record to what we had last season despite our supposed "improvements". Even to die-hard Atlanta Spirit/BK/Woody supporters, that should be unacceptable.

Quote: Quote: he would have been a guy that got our young guys going when things were bad or they were not playing with energy. You mean the way he got Iggy going? Looks to me like he was holding Iggy back since Iggy has had the best run of his career since Iverson left. Iggy's just getting more of an opportunity that's all. Just because Pippen did well after Jordan retired the first time doesn't mean that Jordan was holding him back. He probably didn't have as many opportunities to score, but that should be expected when you're playing with a gifted offensive player. But he did learn to contribute without having the ball in his hands all the time. That helped him when it was time for him to be the go-to guy. If anything Pippen learned how to play winning basketball from Jordan. You can apply that same principle to AI and Iggy.

Quote: Wow...I'm surprised that there are so many Dion Glover supporters. I never cared for his game myself. He definitely did have talent, strength, and athleticism. And he was the Michael Jordan of summer league. But I think mentally and/or emotionally he's too much of a problem, and that's why he's out of the league. I think he would have been better in the NFL, because he just put his head down and went to the basket no matter what. I watched the guy play since he was in college and he was a superstar in the making. He just had too many injuries. Serious injuries too. I was surprised to see him get drafted as high as he was considered he was injured that season, but that tells you the kind of athlete he was. He was actually pretty versatile from what I remember. He played three positions for the Hawks from SF to PG.

Quote: Quote: what would be the harm in bringing in a 30 year old superstar? You mean besides hindering the development of the youngest team in the league, killing the cap in the process. Gee that's a tough one. You are forgetting that they Hawks were missing both of their veteran pgs during the second have of the last game. And both of the pgs have been hurt either separately or at the same all season long. We didn't see too many of these fourth quarter meltdowns when Lue was healthy. I guess everyone has forgotten how many big 4th quarter shots he has hit for us. Man you're right. I mean getting another legit veteran on this team has to be harmful to the growth of the young guys as opposed to them being left out there to flounder time and time again in crunch time while Woody looks on confused. When JT was here, we were always concerned about him being ruined by the continuous losing. What's changed? Shouldn't we be more concerned about the young guys learning how to play winning basketball rather than just playing time in a losing effort? And "cap space" needs to pull its weight around here. Cap space has been on the roster for a few seasons now and has done absolutely nothing. But seriously, I'm getting tired of hearing the word potential and I'm getting tired of hearing about cap space. Both of those things are useless if they are not used or realized. If they are not being used for the benefit of this team then they are worthless. As far as Lue and Speedy being hurt, So what. Speedy is always hurt and Lue is a backup. Why not use our tradeable assets to bring in a competent starter? We applaud a crap move like bringing in Medvedenko or signing Speedy or Lo Wright, but oppose anything past that. Why is everyone here so quick to shoot down any suggestion to improve this team?

Quote: Quote: I wonder if we really have a leader of this team? I dont think Joe is that kind of guy. For that reaosn alone I would have loved to have Iverson in here. That is ridiculous. JJ had a great game. And in case you hadn't noticed Iggy has gone off ever since iverson left. He just dropped 31 (shooting 11-15) on Boston to go with 9 assists. Of course the Iverson groupies think Iggy isn't a scorer. He is averaging 21.8 since the ballhog left. Ex, I know you hated the idea of Iverson possibly coming here but you have to admit that this team needs a strong leader on the floor. I mean if we were really going after a 35(?) year old Cassel this summer, what would be the harm in bringing in a 30 year old superstar? Anyway, this team needs a leader on the floor. Leadership means more than scoring 30 points and dishing out a few assists. It means getting this team to settle down in crunch time and have some poise. JJ is a tremendous talent, but I don't know if he is a leader. He's not very vocal out there on the court and I don't see him as the kind of guy who sticks up for his teamates out there. A Cassel, Iverson, Jack, or even an Andre Miller would fit well on this team right now.

Quote: Quote: We really need Dion Glover out there. He was not afraid to attack the goal. True..Dion Glover wasn't afraid to attack the rim. The problem was that he was afraid to do anything else...like pass, shoot, or defend. I actually liked Dion. Very explosive. I always thought that he played "good enough" defense. It's a shame that I don't see him in the league anymore. I think he's a definite NBA player and deserves to be on a roster somewhere. If we have room for Freije and Bozeman in the league, there's no reason why he shouldn't be playing somewhere.

Quote: If it costs Marvin Williams, getting Andre Miller is not a relatively cheap move. I don't know. Maybe we should start thinking about the here and now. No more guys who we believe are going to be "superstars" in a few years. Those things hardly ever really pan out(at least not for the team who drafted them). The potential thing is good and all, but Marv is replaceable, no doubt about it. And he sure as heck hasn't been this "beast" that I heard so much about before the draft. Heck, there are some SF's coming out in this year's draft who could fill in and actually hit the ground running. I'm not knocking Marvin, but he's not untradeable. No more "reach" draft picks, no more "potential" three-years-down-the-road type picks, no more mediocre free agents, no more "bargains"...We need to bring in something tangible that shows the fans that this organization is serious about winning. We passed on Iverson which is somewhat justifiable, but there is no justification for passing up this opportunity. We have to at least look into it, and do so publicly.

Quote: I wouldn't say its over by any means IF were willing to spend the money to get him. Here is a rumor from the NY Post on SI.com about what Philly's intentions are with Andre Miller. Looks like they want to trade him now. Sixers president and GM Billy King will brainstorm with consigliore Larry Brown to reroute Andre Miller to a playoff contender. Better to move the 30-year-old a half season early than a half season late. The longer Miller remains with a loser, the less productive and motivated (as his one-year Clippers' tour attests, though it's not necessarily reflected in his stats) is bound to become. We need to jump on this immediately. Speedy's been pretty good as of late, but Andre Miller is the real deal at PG. Besides, how long will it be before Speedy is injured again? Honestly, I'm not opposed to trading Marvin at this point if it means getting a player like Miller. I think Childress, when healthy, brings more of an all around game to the table anyway. It's time for BK to make some changes while this team still believes that they can win a game. We have a golden opportunity to make the playoffs, and if we end with another 30 win season, he and Mike Woodson need to look for employment elsewhere. This is a great opportunity to get a player who we would have offered a big contract to(had he been a free agent) during the offseason for "relatively" cheap. Get him!!!

Quote: I agree Hotlanta, I can barely watch this team anymore after being at the game last sat. night against the Bulls when we dominated them the whole game and were up by 12pts and blew that one in regulation and in overtime. Then last night comes along and were KILLING one of the best teams in the West up 21 at the start of the 4th qtr. And we have one of the most monumental collapses I can remember and flat out choke. JJ needs to quit whining and start being a leader damn it. His quotes last night after the game were pathetic. He said he told Lue that after the end of the 3rd qtr. he "didn't know what to expect" and "anything can happen" . With that kind of mindset for your all star to have up 21 going into the 4qtr. is NOT GOOD folks. He needs to step up his leadership and take this team to the promise land. Of course it doesn't help when WOody puts in our worst defensive players either like Lazy Bum Lo Wright and Salim. I was wondering had anybody else read JJ's quote. We really need a leader on this team. Could you imagine AI saying something like that before the 4th quarter? Even if his team was DOWN 21 in the 4th? I could deal with him being a quiet guy but he has to step up and be the leader of this team. That means more than scoring 28 points and dishing out a few assists. I may get flamed for saying that but it's the truth.

Why blame Salim? You really can't point at one player as THE REASON we lost. Let me change that...I guess you could if you already disliked him before his alleged "game changing" clear path foul. The truth is that the coach as well as ALL of the players are responsible for this meltdown.

Quote: i dont think larry brown would be a good fit for us because our offense needs to get out and run and the last time i checked larry brown runs a slow half court offense; even though our defense would be very good Yeah and he's also a headcase. His ego is way too big to coach an individual talent like JJ. He has to take credit for everything or he won't be happy. He's notoriously hard on PG's and attacks his players through the media. The last thing we need is more negative press. You have to question the character of a coach who courts another team(s) during the playoffs. At this point, we need a good X's and O's coach who shows real leadership and commitmnet to the young players. Besides, I don't think he likes young players and our team is the youngest in the NBA.

Quote: Quote: Terrible loss. I do find comfort in knowing that: 1. Woodson is the perfect coach for this young team 2. BK is a genius 3. Iverson is a bum and his scoring would not have helped us 4. Marvin will become a better player than Paul/Deron 5. The media is always wrong about how bad the Hawks are 6. If we cut Lo/Salim/Freije now, we can win out 7. These Hawks have more heart than those Wilkens led teams All jokes aside, this is a very disheartening loss. This can't be good for the psyche of this young team. It looked like Utah felt that they could come back and get this one whenever they wanted to. I've noticed this in a few of our losses this season. That's not a good rep to have in the league at all. This team has to find a way to close out games. You cant be serious............ Are you Kidding me?????????????? If we don't make a change quick, WE ARE GOING DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terrible loss. I do find comfort in knowing that: 1. Woodson is the perfect coach for this young team 2. BK is a genius 3. Iverson is a bum and his scoring would not have helped us 4. Marvin will become a better player than Paul/Deron 5. The media is always wrong about how bad the Hawks are 6. If we cut Lo/Salim/Freije now, we can win out 7. These Hawks have more heart than those Wilkens led teams All jokes aside, this is a very disheartening loss. This can't be good for the psyche of this young team. It looked like Utah felt that they could come back and get this one whenever they wanted to. I've noticed this in a few of our losses this season. That's not a good rep to have in the league at all. This team has to find a way to close out games.

Quote: Quote: Within 30 minutes of the Nuggets announcing their trade for Allen Iverson on Tuesday, the ticket office had sold 340 season tickets. There were lines at the Pepsi Center waiting to buy tickets for Denver's game Wednesday night against Phoenix. "In 17 years, I've never seen a spike like that," said Paul Andrews, the executive vice president of Kroenke Sports Enterprises, who said more than 4,000 single-game tickets were purchased in a two-hour window. It may still be Carmelo Anthony's team, but he's got company. Iverson brings instant star -- not to mention box office -- power. "We're getting a superstar," said Mark Warkentien, Denver's vice president of basketball operations. "An absolute superstar." I realize that we have been told the price was far too high for us to get AI, but he would have an instant impact player for us and would have locked us into the playoffs annually with he and JJ and whomever was left over. I'm glad we have an exciting young core to build around, but if this thing never pans out for Smoove, Marvin, Chillz, or Shelden we are going to end up seriously regretting this non-move. I hope that we do well enough this season so that we don't regret it later. But I have to admit that it would have made for the most exciting time in recent Hawks history. I would have loved to see him here, despite how many may feel about him. He would have brought immediate credibility to the franchise. It would've also sent a message to the fans that we are serious about winning and are willing to take risks to do so. I like JJ, but sometimes I don't see him as a "leader" in the traditional sense. I don't really see him as the type of guy that would stand up for his teamates in one of those "chippy" games. It seems that he and the rest of the team would really benefit by having a strong player/leader, preferrebly someone at PG position. Just as many here thought that Cassel could've been that guy for this team, I feel that AI could've brought that to this team to an even greater degree.

Quote: Quote: I still don't get what so hard to grasp about Salim being a second scoring option. Very simple. He is an undersized 2. He can't play the point at all on offense and can't guard 2s on D. Let's revisit this after the game.

Quote: Quote: Maybe the second scoring option should be Salim A turnover prone, undersized 2 is best suited as a scorer off the bench. I like how you took just one part of that statement. I finished that statement by saying that he is a natural scorer. The criteria for the second scorer was that he needed to be a good shooter and be able to drive the lane effectively. Salim can do both. His turnovers seem to be a result of his being a little too overzealous sometimes, but I feel that is due to his incosistent minutes. He feels that he needs to make the big play whenever he gets the ball in order to stay in the game. Lately, Woody has asked him to concentrate on scoring and his play has actually improved. He seems a little more under control now. I still don't get what so hard to grasp about Salim being a second scoring option. He's a natural scorer. He can create his own shot on the perimeter and finish in the lane over taller defenders. Maybe it's time Woody really gives this guy a look. Really....I'm not joking

Quote: Quote: lol steals stats: the last defense of the desperate. Big Dog used to routinely lead or be in the top three for SFs in steals. I guess he was a defensive stopper too using that logic. Nope I look at his total game. He leaves EVERYTHING on the floor. He is the first to dive for the ball get the hand ion for the steal. Force offensive fouls. Gives his body up for the cause, totally. You are incorrect about Iverson. He is a first ballot HOF without a doubt.Hawks with Iverson we would win more than lose. We would be a contender. If we could get him for Smoove, Lo, Speedy and a pick, Get Him. As much as you disdain him, players adore him, because he plays the game as you suppose to, All out. Thankyou. Somebody had to say it. Compare Iverson to Marbury??? Francis??? What in the world is going on? I bet most of these people were the same ones criticizing AI during his rookie year in the league when he was Philly's main offensive weapon. If you really know basketball you know that at 5'10", it should be impossible to do what AI has done for as long as he's done it. True he's a score first guard, but name one weakness in his offensive arsenal. The guy plays all out and no matter how you feel about him as a PERSON, at least acknowledge the PLAYER. This is getting ridiculous. It's getting to the point that we are bashing players who aren't even on our team.......yet.