hawkman

Quote: just say no to Darius. Him and Josh Smith do NOT get along. In the addidas games they argued because Darius wouldnt pass the ball. i'm intrigued by pops(if he's available) or pittsnogle. Now I did watch that when it came on FSN. His relationship with JSmith would be a concern. But we do need another guard badly though.

Stats aside, I remember watching him play at Memphis and he was a decent distributor. I don't know how easy it's going to be to find a defensive/pass first PG at this point in the season. It wouldn't hurt to give the guy a ten day and see what he can do.

AI gets to much of a bad rap. He plays hard EVERY night and actually is more of a team player than he is given credit for. This wouldn't be another JR Rider situation. He would have an immediate impact on the team offensively and we would definitely make the playoffs for the next couple of years. We would also have the most devastating backcourt (ever???). If we are a potential trading partner with Philly though, BK needs to play hardball with them as we are already a much improved team. It wouldn't hurt to try bringing him in. Besides, his contract will be up by the time he begins to wear out his welcome in the ATL. I would balk at sending them JSmith or Childress though.

Find Darius Washington and sign him. NOW!

Very true. But there are two problems right now. Joe is quiet by nature and the Hawks have been a cellar dwellar team for the past 7 years. So that means that they won't get calls as a team and there is no vocal star player to complain when they don't. If you look at players like Dwayne Wade, Kobe Bryant, and Lebron James, they get way too many calls that can be described as "phantom" fouls. Joe never seems to get the same advantage as other stars in this league. I have noticed that he has been getting more calls as of late though, but there's been this issue of making free throws in crunch time.

Quote: I'm not trying to be an @shole here, but I'm sick of people sayin they were heartless. They probably were boring to people that don't play the game. I think that it is naive to say they were heartless. They were under talented. They played a little to close to the vest. If they would have had a Sprewell type, I think it could have been different. The were all heart if you ask me. Are you telling me Smitty, Mookie, Deke, Ty, Grant, etc., were heartless. Please. You don't play the game. Don't talk about heart. It would have been nice to win a title with Wilkens, but wtf do you like about the last 7 years? Please tell me. How can you be heartless when you care about each possession? They did not turn it over, and played great team defense. Exactly. Those were some of the same points I made in the other thread about Wilkens. Love him or hate him, the Hawks played their best basketball under him. Just because he had some negative things to say about the team, which were true to some extent, does not change that.

Quote: Trading Dominique was all Babcock's call. And as far as the Cleveland team goes... Durability is just as important as Ability! There are 30 teams in the league. Every year only one wins the title. Just because Charles Barkley, Pat Ewing, and Karl Malone never won a championship... It doesn't mean that they suck or that Westphaul, Riley, Nellie, or Jerry Sloan sucks... It just means that it wasn't their time. Good points all. Durability was an issue with arguably their best player Brad Daugherty(sp?). Brad Daugherty(sp?) was a very skilled center but his chronic back injuries kept him from reaching his full potential. And I can't fault any team for losing to the Bulls in the playoffs during the late 80's through the 90's, I mean, THEY WERE THE BULLS! Now the whole Nique thing kinda got under my skin at first when I thought Lenny was at fault but I later learned that it was a "management" decision. That trade has to go down as one of the worst ever. I'm not sure how much Lenny may have influenced that decision though. If he didn't agree with management to trade Nique, I doubt he did much to stop it. The bottom line is, regardless of what any on this board might think of him personally, Lenny was at the helm during some of the Hawks' most successful seasons.

I don't know man. I think people on this board give BK too much credit sometimes. He hasn't taken the PG situation seriously since he got here. We passed up on a PG during a draft that was loaded with top tier talent in that department. We ran JJ out of position for much of last season and when that flopped, started Ivey. Even after those difficulties last season we still didn't draft a PG and instead chose to sign Speedy Claxton, the backup of the player we passed on who could have been our PG for the next ten years. Speedy is known to struggle with injury, so it should be no surprise when he's unavailable. I didn't expect him to struggle so early in the season though. Anyway, BK has consistently shown disregard for traditional "positions" on the court. It has worked in some cases(Chill, Smoove maybe?), but it has failed when it comes to just plugging a "player" or "good passer" into the PG position. The reason for this is that the position of PG is a very unique position on the court. It requires specialized skills both tangible and intangible. Only when BK realizes this and acts accordingly will we get a true PG that can maximize this teams potential.

Quote: I Have never witness a commentator bash the hawks the way Lenny did last night. I didn't realize that he had so much hate towards the hawks. Well you have to consider the circumstances of his exit. He was used to having a consistent, defensive minded team that would at least make it to the playoffs every season. However it was obvious that this was an aging team. In that series versus the Knicks, Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell seemed to drive and score at will. Babcock decided to rebuild. Smitty was dumped for Isaiah Rider and Jim Jackson and Mookie was traded for the 10th pick in the draft(Jason Terry). Just like that the two leaders of those Hawks teams were gone, replaced by Isaiah and the original JJ. Of course, Isaiah didn't want to come to Atlanta and it showed. He was suspended repeatedly until he was finally released somewhere around mid-season. JJ played well but struggled with injuries throughout his time with the Hawks. JT showed promise as a rookie but he was still a rookie. That team fell below .500 and that was the end of that. I don't know what went on behind closed doors between Lenny and management, but I'm sure it wasn't pretty. In the end Lenny was used as a scapegoat despite the fact that it was management's poor decisions that contributed to that losing season. He was fired and replaced by Lon Kruger. Too bad though, I really thought that JT played more like a traditional PG under him and could have been one of the best had Lenny stayed on. Ever since then, the Hawks have been struggling to get back to respectability.

But Mookie brought so much more than just defense. Everyone lauds Speedy for his D but what else does he bring to the table? I'm not knocking him but he hasn't shown much so far. Imagine if we had Mookie at his prime on this team right now. Would we still be thinking about picking a PG in the mid-first round of the draft this upcoming off season? And Laettner actually played center for us one season and actually played quite well. He complained to the refs quite a bit but he was actually a very skilled player. I'm just saying that things weren't so bad under Lenny. I learned that you can't take 50 win seasons and playoff appearances for granted. If things were really that "bad" back then, my God man, how do you feel about the state of this franchise now?

Heck, I thought they always had heart. It was just that age caught up with them in that series. That was the reason that Babcock decided to rebuild the following season. Man, to say that those guys were heartless is a little harsh. Smitty was/is a class guy who wasn't afraid to take the big shots. Mookie was a gritty, no nonsense point guard who could almost guard anybody on the floor. Mutombo, of course, added to the defensive mentality of those teams. It's strange that people can look at the team as it is now and be so protective/optimistic and yet bash a team that had some of the very things that we so desparately need now and was actually successful to boot **EDIT** And to be honest, we DID quit tonight.

Not trying to flame here, but did you watch the Hawks during Wilkens' tenure as coach? I'm not talking about the latter Isaiah Rider/Jim Jackson/rebuild on-the-fly days, but rather the Mookie/Ehlo/Smitty/Laettner/Mutombo days. They played basketball the way it was supposed to be played. I loved their defensive intensity which was a direct result of Lenny's coaching style. I wasn't fortunate enough or old enough to see the early Nique/Doc/Tree Rollins teams so to me, the Lenny Wilkens "era" represents the "good old days" of Hawks basketball. Maybe he's allowing his personal differences with the organization to influence his commentary on the team, but I wouldn't let that take away from the things he accomplished while he was here nor his accomplishments throughout his coaching career.

Quote: Quote: No I'm not arguing at all. But if we're going to bench the guy, Marv or Chill need to be healthy first. I'll let this go but no one one the board has suggested benching Smith in favor of anybody but Marvin Williams. If I am wrong prove it. Quote: Heck, how in the world did we even get on this subject? The reason we lost this game was a combination of injuries/questionable coaching anyway. What would you have done as coach? As far as your first statement is concerned I read what I read. As far as your second statement, if Freijie wasn't going to make shots AND play bad defense we should have at least put in Bozeman to at least improve the latter. I guess what I would have done does not matter as I don't have half of the knowledge/experience of an NBA coach. But the fact that I could come up with that solution while laying on my couch speaks volumes about the quality of coaching we have on this team right now.

Quote: Quote: I didn't say benched in favor of Freijie. I said benched period. In favor of Who??? That make a difference you know!!! Would you argue like this if his replacement was Labron?? No I'm not arguing at all. But if we're going to bench the guy, Marv or Chill need to be healthy first. Heck, how in the world did we even get on this subject? The reason we lost this game was a combination of injuries/questionable coaching anyway.

I didn't say benched in favor of Freijie. I said benched period.

Quote: Quote: Good no one will be standing around on offense now waiting to launch an ill-advised Well maybe now everyone can finally see the some of the positives Smoove brought to the game. At least he provided some semblance interior D and hustle. The rebounding suffered immediately when he left in the second half. Hopefully, the bench will step it up a bit. This should be Salim's time to shine here. I know you are not comparing Smith to Freije No way. There's been a recent "movement" to have Smoove ride the pine as if the team would be better off without him. I was indicating that his absence in the second half might help some people on this board finally understand what he means to this team.

Quote: I'll blame both, fair enough? YES!!!!

Quote: Quote: Do we blame Freijie now????????????????????????? Uhhh...YES!!!. Pathetic shooting, no D, tipping rebounds to the other team, turnovers. he might be the most worthless player i have seen in a Hawks uni. Uhhh...NO!!!. Blame the guy that refused to pull him out of the game while it was still winnable.

Do we blame Freijie now?????????????????????????

Quote: Quote: Now Smoove is gone with an eye injury for the game so Matt has to step it up. Good no one will be standing around on offense now waiting to launch an ill-advised Well maybe now everyone can finally see the some of the positives Smoove brought to the game. At least he provided some semblance interior D and hustle. The rebounding suffered immediately when he left in the second half. Hopefully, the bench will step it up a bit. This should be Salim's time to shine here.

He's played good as of late. I still would've drafted Foye though

I like Solomon at center. Very athletic

Quote: Lue is our problem defensively. He gets killed by opposing guards, if Speedy recovers all the way than we will be fine. Why not try Ivey?? he is more experienced now and shouldn't make rookie mistakes. True. TJ Ford literally drove at will against the Hawks the other night while Speedy was out. But the problem is that if Speedy has tendinitis or bursitis, we'll either have to wait until he completely recovers or he'll have to play in pain for the rest of the season possibly with limited minutes. Either way, we have a problem. Maybe it's time to either bring in Ivey or sign Anthony Grundy again.

Quote: Shelden is starting to quiet some of the doubters about that pick. Over his last 5 games, Shelden has averaged 10.6 PPG and 9.2 RPG while shooting 52% from the floor. His game is coming along, and he's starting to gain some confidence. If we could get the perimeter defense fixed, which means getting Speedy healthy, we've got a chance at a good season. I'm glad to see Shelden come on as of late. I was afraid that it was a mistake drafting him as high as we did, and it still may be. But I have to admit, he is a strong defensive player with a decent offensive game. He just needs to cut down on the offensive fouls as he can get a little overzealous when he gets the ball on the block. I still think this team really needs a true PG that can knock down the 15 footer to keep defenses honest. T Lue definitely has a place on this team, but the offense tends to get a little stagnant when he decides to go one on five, which seems to be most of the time. BTW, why doesn't Woody ever run any plays for Salim? He's obviously a gifted scorer. Maybe he could be utilized a little better, especially when we have problems scoring the ball.

Maybe it's time management takes the PG position seriously. It's obvious that this team really needs one. Speedy was a good attempt to fix the problem, but it has not worked out so far. Ideally, Speedy would be healthy and this team would be rolling right now, but that has not happened. It's obvious that Speedy needs some time to recover. In the meantime, we need to look for another PG. Without one, the hawks will go from a possible playoff team to another sub 40 win season.