Comparison of the PS3 and 360

[Admin]

Chillz, it appears that what I read about the 2 video cards was mis-printed in the gaming magazine that I cant remember the name of right now. Anyways, according to this article that I just read, Sony is claiming that its "twice as powerful" as the nVidia 6800.

It does appear that the 360 is quite a bit more powerful with the system and video memory, as well as the external hard drive, although I still hate their controllers compared to the PS3 and I cant figure out why they would use 2.4 wireless (something else to interfere with the linksys and phone system) instead of BlueTooth like Sony is using. Sony is also doing the smart thing and using the BluRay discs for their games instead of the dual layer DVDs. The last specs I read on the BluRay discs are claiming 64 gigs on one disc. Just imagine the possibilities there as compared to the 9 gig limit for the dual layer DVDs.

When you consider the enormous base cost of the 360 ($300-400?) plus having to pay for the external hard drive and the wireless adapter and the LIVE service you are talking $500 or so bucks before you even get a game.

If the PS3 comes in anywhere near where the PS2 was (around $200) it will probably get my money even if its not as good in terms of memory and storage capacity.

[Plainview1981]

I bought a PS2 and an Xbox and they both tore up within

a year. I've had my second Xbox for about a year and a

half and it's been fine.. But I don't know if the new

systems are worth it.

[Admin]

Not exactly sure what that means concerning a game system and unless you were tossing it around I cant imagine how you could go through them like that. I have never had a game system go out on me but I take care of them pretty well.

[Plainview1981]

They just quit playing games. The P2 just started making

Ugly noises. It takes me off because my Nintendo, Sega,

Super NES all still work. What I heard about the Xbox is

that some of the parts were made by different companies.

I think it was Thomson, Phillips and Samsung. I heard the

Thomson drives were bad and alot of them failed. The second time I got a Samsung one and it's worked fine.

here is people talking about it:

http://boards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=54...p;ui=cb_post_04

[chillzatl]

That was probably printed right before the 7800 chips came out, which are about 2x as powerful as a 6800. Once they're out we'll see that in reality, they're both going to be nearly identical in performance. Developers are going to set a target for their games early in development and they're going to make sure that it will run on both games. So while one might be much more powerful than the other, we're not going to see games that really push the limits for a couple of years.

I might even go as far as to give the LONG TERM edge to the ps3. Simply because it's multi-scalar (lots of small cpu's doing their own thing), just like the PS2 and it took developers a while to get a grasp on how to properly code for it. But we're talking small returns here. The early shots of games for both consoles look amazing. Who wins the next gen console war will likely come down to the console exclusive titles (halo, gears of war, Metal gear, etc).

I think the days of top line game consoles being sub-$300 are long gone. Simply because of all the tech they are cramming in them. The new nintendo console MIGHT be sub-299 at release. But it's not even going to have all the HD features and media capabilities that the x360 and ps3 are pushing. If the PS3 has anything close to the feature set they've hinted at, there's no way they can get that thing out the door for less than $400-500.

I hate to say it. But I will likely buy an xbox 360. Despite being a hardcore pc gamer, I want it for the media functions. I've been shopping for a box to put down in my theater room so I can stream movies/music straight from my servers without having to burn them and the x360 is going to do this out of the box. Who knows, maybe they will have some games that are good enough to steal away some of my PC gaming time

[chillzatl]

Opening the Xbox 360

[Lascar78]

I agree. my ps2 died on me too. I actually just bought a slim PS2 which is tiny by the way. I figure it can last me until the prices on the next gen consoles go down some, and they re-design them a little better. The PS2 in particular was known to die on people after 2 years or so. The source of the problem was overheating I believe.

[Admin]

I have never had a problem with my PS2, and actually I have the original "PlayStation 2", not the PS2 as the slim one is called.

The only problems I have ever had with the system are every single year if I leave Madden on for more than 48 hours it locks up on me. I can leave LIVE or MLB on for a week or more and they are fine, although they do perform sluggish after a while.

[Admin]

Who would have thunk it.

I only have 3 complaints about the 360.

1. I dont like that they are using HD-DVD instead of BluRay, but I can understand since BluRay isnt officially out yet. I guess if you dont ever plan on having this be your typical set top movie player then you will be okay going forward. I just dont see HD-DVD lasting since it pales in comparison to BluRay.

2. Why in the hell are they using 2.4 wireless for the controllers when BlueTooth is so much better? The last thing I need at home is my gaming system interfering with my wireless network and my phone system. I can understand it being 2.4 for the wireless networking part, but why for the controllers?

3. The price. I know that the PS3 will be expensive too, but its getting to the point where the casual gamer cant afford one of these systems. 50 bucks for a game, plus the LIVE subscription, plus the external hard drive and all that is on top of the basic system itself.

[Lascar78]

yeah I had the original too, then I started getting disk read errors within the past year, then it just started going nuts on me a couple months ago. Like if I play Madded it would make crazy noises and take 10-15 seconds between each play to figure out wtf it was doing. That's not playable.

You might not want to let yours run because this is a widespread problem. Apparently it overheats which melts the plastic circle that holds the disk itself a tiny bit, but just enough to throw the laser off and screw everything up. So if I was you I'd avoid leaving it on all the time. I used to do that too.

So anyhow I got a slim one

[Admin]

Yeah its probably not a good idea, but I have had this thing for 3-4 years now and it has been great other than with Madden. I keep it in an open area though, not closed up in a cabinet like a lot of people do. I also have an external fan that I run behind my components to cool them off. That was mainly for my DirectTivo though, but it does help the PS2 I imagine.

[chillzatl]

I did own a PS2.. solely to play Gran Turismo. I did buy a few other games but never really played them.

I'm convinced the blu-ray will not make it. There are far too many big companies behind HD-DVD for Sony to not give in, in some way. The only thing that blu-ray has over HD-DVD is capacity. But they haven't even prototyped the 50GB spec for blu-ray yet. So it's really just superior on paper. Someone from microsoft responded to their choosing of HD-DVD over Blu-Ray yesterday and listed out five specific points on why they picked it. Most of them sound pretty logical to me.

I wouldn't worry about the controllers interfering with anything. I would think that problem, if it were really a problem, would have been discussed in the first week of the design process.

I agree about the cost. The thought of me dropping $400+ on this thing is insane. But like I said, they're trying to move these things from being game consoles to being media devices. I know a lot of companies have talked about that for years now. But it really seems like they will pull it off now. When you consider that you will be able to use an x360 (and presumably ps3) as a DVD player with EXCELLENT progressive output, an media streamer (audio and video) AND a game console, it's really not a huge stretch. You can drop $200+ on a DVD player with high quality DAC's and all you get out of it is DVD playback. Factor in another $150+ for a media device to stream content from a PC and then another $200 for a game console. It's not all that bad of a deal!

If the x360 fully supports everything that I play (vcd, svcd, divx/xvid, etc) it will likley become the only dvd player in my HT. I also look forward to being able to hack the crap out of it, which you KNOW will happen sooner than later

[Traceman]

I don't know which format will ultimately win out but it will be interesting to watch. Both have their pluses and minuses and both have a tremendous amount of support. The article below was taken from the Projector Central website which is an EXCELLENT source for home theater information.

HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray: The Next Format War

Bill Livolsi, August 31, 2005

ProjectorCentral.com

First came the battle between VHS and Betamax for the home video market. Betamax tapes had superior image quality, but were more costly than VHS; the Betamax format is now extinct. Next came the much quieter battle between Sony and Philips' MMCD format and the SD format backed by a host of companies, including Toshiba, Matsushita (Panasonic) and Time-Warner. The first of these "format wars" ended with a clear victor after years of costly struggle; the second ended in a compromise which gave birth to the DVD format as we know it today.

We are now in the midst of another format war, this time over the future of in-home high-definition media. On one side is HD-DVD, a format created by Toshiba and NEC; on the other side is Blu-Ray, created by Sony, Matsushita, and Philips. Each format has significant backing, and the first consumer units are scheduled to be released within months. It is no longer a question of which format is "better." The debate now is about which format will catch on faster, and therefore win.

HD-DVD

The HD-DVD format, developed and proposed by Toshiba and NEC, was introduced to the DVD Forum in November of 2003 and approved as the next-generation DVD format. The DVD Forum was founded by the companies involved in the original DVD format war to make sure that compromises could be reached regarding the future of the format. Since Blu-Ray was never submitted for consideration, it could not be approved or rejected by the DVD Forum.

HD-DVD discs, at the time of this writing, promise a single-layer capacity of 15 gigabytes, or over three times that of single-layer DVDs. They accomplish this by using a blue-violet laser with a shorter wavelength than the red laser used in current DVD drives. This means that discs can have information more tightly packed on the disc, enabling far greater storage capacity on the same size disc. Dual-layer discs are capable of holding 30GB, and Toshiba has announced a prototype three-layer disc with a capacity of 45GB. These discs are capable of holding between two and five hours of high-definition video with audio track.

The primary advantage of this format is a low manufacturing cost. Since HD-DVD media is so technically similar to standard DVD media (it uses the same layer thicknesses as DVD, made of similar materials), the discs can be produced with only a slight modification to existing manufacturing lines. This appealed to many companies, and led to an early rush of support from several large studios. Current supporters of HD-DVD include Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo, and Microsoft, in addition to New Line Cinema, Paramount, Universal, Time-Warner, and the official approval of the DVD Forum.

Blu-Ray

Blu-Ray Disc, or BD, was developed by Sony, Matsushita, and Philips, with the first stages of development commencing back in 1995. Rather than propose the format to the DVD Forum, Sony appealed to major electronics companies, and many signed on in support of the format, creating the Blu-Ray Disc Association (BDA). Critics occasionally cite the fact that Blu-Ray did not go through official approval channels; however, at the time of this writing, at least seven of the DVD Forum's original ten founders now support Blu-Ray.

The potential capacity of Blu-Ray discs is, in a word, staggering. A single-layer disc can hold between 23 and 27 gigabytes of data, enough for four hours of high-definition video; a dual-layer disc can hold between 46 and 54GB, easily enough for eight full hours of high-definition programming*. Furthermore, since the layers on a Blu-Ray disc are so thin, there is potential for multi-layer discs with up to eight layers holding upwards of 200GB. TDK has announced a working prototype of a four-layer 100GB disc, but commercial availability of these high-capacity discs is several months away, at the least.

Blu-Ray's two main advantages are capacity and expandability, the potential for which has not yet been matched by HD-DVD. To add some perspective, most entry-level computer hard drives do not hold 200GB. 200GB is the equivalent of forty-five single-layer DVDs, or twenty-three double-layer DVDs. There is enough capacity to store over twenty full-length standard definition DVD movies on one disc, complete with special features and full digital audio.

Blu-Ray discs also have an advantage in durability, thanks to a special hard-coating developed by TDK. While CD and DVD media (and, presumably, HD-DVD) can be scratched by wiping with a tissue, Blu-Ray discs can reportedly withstand attack from a screwdriver (source here).

This technology comes with a significant price. Manufacturing Blu-Ray discs requires significant costs in updating DVD fabrication equipment, and would be a sharp manufacturer cost increase over HD-DVD. This initially led to slower adoption of support for the format, though later developments in the technology have recently enabled it to gain wider support from major electronic and PC manufacturers.

Current support for Blu-Ray includes PC makers Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, and Sony, and electronics giants Hitachi, LG, Mitsubishi Electric, Matsushita/Panasonic, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, TDK, and Thomson. Add to this the support by movie studios such as Columbia TriStar, Sony Pictures and MGM (all three owned by Sony), 20th Century Fox, Lions Gate Entertainment, and Disney, as well as video game makers Electronic Arts and Vivendi Universal Games, and the bastion of support for Blu-Ray looks formidable indeed.

The Format War

The situation as it stands today is complicated. On one hand we have the HD-DVD format, which holds less data but is, at the time of this writing, cheaper to produce**. On the other hand is Blu-Ray, with the potential for exponentially more capacity and durability, but with a significant manufacturer cost increase. Both players will offer features to ease the transition to HD, such as backwards-compatibility with standard CD and DVD media. While there were talks earlier this year to see if a possible compromise could be reached that ended in combining the two formats, these discussions collapsed with very little in terms of results. With equal studio support for each format, this war becomes a race to see which format gains wide adoption first.

HD-DVD had planned to gain an early advantage by widely releasing its products in 4th quarter of 2005, thereby saturating the market with HD-DVD drives and discs before Blu-Ray was released. At CES 2005, the makers of HD-DVD promised 85 titles released before the end of the year, while Blu-Ray has been planning a release in early-to-mid 2006. However, recent announcements have revealed that hardware and software shipments of HD-DVD material are smaller than expected. Paramount, which promised a release of 20 titles this year, is not releasing any until 2006. NBC Universal is now releasing 12 titles instead of 16, and Time Warner says that its plans are not definite yet, as it is waiting to see whether the two formats can compromise (source: "HD-DVD Rollout, Set for Holidays, Gets Scaled Back," The Wall Street Journal, August 2005). The result of this delay is that both formats' major releases will occur sometime in 2006.

Blu-Ray is expected to gain a major sales boost through Sony's Playstation 3 game console, for several reasons. The console will feature a Blu-Ray drive, and will be the first video game console to hit the market featuring a next-generation drive. While first-generation HD-DVD drives are estimated to cost nearly $1000, and first-generation Blu-Ray drives have already been released in Japan for nearly $2000, the Playstation 3 is rumored to feature a price tag between $300 and $600, making it more affordable to the average consumer. At least initially, Blu-Ray drives may be more accessible due, in large part, to the Playstation 3.

Also, consider this. When Sony's Playstation 2 was released, a majority of Playstation 1 owners rushed out immediately to attempt to buy the new console. While there was a supply shortage in the US, the stock that made it to the States sold almost immediately. Sony deliberately kept the price of the new console very low so that it would be more accessible to more people. The result is that 100 million people worldwide own Playstation 1 consoles, and 90 million people worldwide own Playstation 2s. If this strategy is repeated once more with the Playstation 3, and if Sony can keep up with demand, Blu-Ray could gain an enormous amount of market share in a very short time.

With the support of major computer manufacturers, consumers could start to see PCs with Blu-Ray drives as early as the end of 2005, according to Hewlett-Packard. In PC applications, the larger capacity of Blu-Ray is alluring simply from a data storage standpoint.

Conclusion

No one knows what the outcome of this format war will be – it all depends on which format consumers can get more cheaply, more quickly, with more movies available for it. Blu-Ray is technologically superior, true; however, the VHS and Betamax war shows that the technologically superior product does not always win. Sales of DVD drives and media only really took off after DVD player prices dropped below $300, and with HD-DVD's lower manufacturing costs, this could prove to be a large benefit. However, Sony claims that within a few months of launch, Blu-Ray media will be priced within 10% of current DVD prices. With the first products set to hit the market by Christmas of this year, 2006 is going to be an interesting year for High Definition.

* The amount of high definition content that can be stored on a disc is entirely dependent upon the codec used to encode said content. Using standard MPEG-2 DVD compression, a single-layer Blu-Ray disc could hold two hours of HD programming, but with MPEG-4 or VC-1 compression this roughly doubles.

** Due to the speed at which these technologies are changing, a discussion of consumer pricing would be premature. It is certainly possible, however, that higher manufacturing costs may lead to higher end costs for consumers.

[Dukegotgame]

chillz are you saying that the xbox360 will let you burn stuff onto it, like games and dvds,cds?

[chillzatl]

what do you mean by "Burn"? Will you be able to copy things to it across a network and play them back on it? Probalby so. Maybe not by microsofts design. BUt it will happen, just as it did for the xbox.

Out of the box you will be able to play back media from networked computers (if htey're running MCE 2005, for now). If it plays all the formats I mentioned, it will rock.