If there was only some way to get Baron Davis...

[DavidSomerset]

Josh Smith/Mike Bibby/Rights to David Andersen for Baron Davis and Andris Biedrins.

That would be AWESOME.

Baron/Law

JJ/ Salim/Richardson

Marvin/Chillz

Horford/ Solo

Biedrins/Zaza

[PureGreatness]

everybody wants to trade smith. smh

[Cwell]

nope.We have our PG already,we just need a backup for him

[TheDude]

you are insane...trade someone with unbelievable talent who works hard in the offseason to develop it for an old, injury prone point guard? hey i like baron but i'm not mortgaging the future for a 2year rental....not when we also have a future in acie...good lord man.

[Swatguy]

I have been battling the notion of the returns of a JSmith S & T for weeks.

It is settled in my spirit, JSmith shall not be moved. We gotta sign both Josh's.

Now Bibby and Marvin for Baron and Azubuike is my answer.

[Cwell]

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you are insane...trade someone with unbelievable talent who works hard in the offseason to develop it for an old, injury prone point guard? hey i like baron but i'm not mortgaging the future for a 2year rental....not when we also have a future in acie...good lord man.

Exactly how I feel.It's funny how Acie was great at the beginning but after a couple fluke injuries and Woody he's not the future anymore?lol.People complain about him yet keep trying to trade for multiple people to start over him.Hilarious,that's only making the team worse.No Baron Davis,No Kirk Hinrich,no Jose Calderon,no Gilbert Arenas,no Mo Williams.U guys are a trip, lmao at these trades.

[Cwell]

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I have been battling the notion of the returns of a JSmith S & T for weeks.

It is settled in my spirit, JSmith shall not be moved. We gotta sign both Josh's.

Now Bibby and Marvin for Baron and Azubuike is my answer.

I'm down with trading Bibby and Marvin but not for Baron.We have our PG.

[DavidSomerset]

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you are insane...trade someone with unbelievable talent who works hard in the offseason to develop it for an old, injury prone point guard? hey i like baron but i'm not mortgaging the future for a 2year rental....not when we also have a future in acie...good lord man.

It's basically trading Josh Smith for Biedrins (great rebounder and defender at CENTER), and Bibby/Andersen for Davis.

What is so crazy about that??

It allows Horford to move to PF.

[Cwell]

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you are insane...trade someone with unbelievable talent who works hard in the offseason to develop it for an old, injury prone point guard? hey i like baron but i'm not mortgaging the future for a 2year rental....not when we also have a future in acie...good lord man.

It's basically trading Josh Smith for Biedrins (great rebounder and defender at CENTER), and Bibby/Andersen for Davis.

What is so crazy about that??

It allows Horford to move to PF. lol u just answered his and your own question

[PureGreatness]

beans a better defender and rebounder? have you seen golden state play? they jack up alot of threes and and jumpshots in general. no wonder beans get 10 rebounds a game.

[Swatguy]

Wish as you will, but Law was not ready to lead this team. Acie has a ways to go to be an effective starter next season.

Baron Davis is an All-Star level PG.

[frosgrim]

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Wish as you will, but Law was not ready to lead this team. Acie has a ways to go to be an effective starter next season.

Baron Davis is an All-Star level PG.

But you don't trade a 22 year-old post player for an aging, injury prone, me-first pg like Davis. You make that trade to get you an Championship, you don't make it at this stage of building the team.

Re: Law- IMO, he is only half a season away from being able to run the offense and qb the defense. It really depends on the coach. If we keep Woodson then Law may never develop w/ the Hawks. Woodson depends way too much on his PG to be the offense coach. In Woody's offense Law doesn't have a chance as Law just doesn't have the experience to run an NBA offense that has so little structure to it. If we get a HC that understands offense and can coach Law, then we have a true PG that can play defense on our hands. Is Law an All-star type player? I don't think so. I think he's a Marc Jackson-like guy who will play on a few A-S games, but at the same time, be a key player on a championship run.

Re: Trading JS- you only move JS for an equivalent young talent. I don't see any trades that make sense for the Hawks for JS right now, but someone out there may get hard-up to get Josh and offer a bonanza of young players and/or picks.

[Cwell]

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Wish as you will, but Law was not ready to lead this team. Acie has a ways to go to be an effective starter next season.

Baron Davis is an All-Star level PG.

i'm not wishing.I know he'll be ready next,he was ready the beginning of his rookie year.We just need a new coach.I aslo know there's no chance in hell we're even looking at Baron Davis,OR Hinrich,OR Mo Williams,OR Gilbert Arenas or any other starting PG we don't need.

[DavidSomerset]

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Wish as you will, but Law was not ready to lead this team. Acie has a ways to go to be an effective starter next season.

Baron Davis is an All-Star level PG.

But you don't trade a 22 year-old post player for an aging, injury prone, me-first pg like Davis. You make that trade to get you an Championship, you don't make it at this stage of building the team.

Re: Trading JS- you only move JS for an equivalent young talent. I don't see any trades that make sense for the Hawks for JS right now, but someone out there may get hard-up to get Josh and offer a bonanza of young players and/or picks.

Am I missing something???

How does Andris Biedrins not qualify as an "equivalent young talent"???

Why do people keep making this into a JS for Baron trade??

We get a top shelf PG and a very good defensive and rebounding center...What's the problem?

[frosgrim]

The questions you have to answer is:

1) J Smith

2) Will Davis play more than 40-50 games? If yes, then there is some sense to getting him; however, Davis has a bad reputation as a me first guy. Second, Davis' contract is much harder to move than Bibby's (~17+ mil vs. ~14.5 mil respectively).

3) can the Hawks get more in return for an expiring Bibby contract in the middle of the season than a broke-down Davis now?

In terms of talent I see what you are saying in that Davis is, when healthy, better than Bibby. However, Davis is never healthy, therefore you can't make that argument.

Thus, you are trading a healthier player in Bibby and a more explosive and higher potential player in Smith, PLUS, a possible bench scorer in Andersen for an often injured, me-first PG, and a servicable 240 lb center. I can't see how that is a winning trade for the Hawks. GS, however, would jump all over this.

[Swatguy]

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Wish as you will, but Law was not ready to lead this team. Acie has a ways to go to be an effective starter next season.

Baron Davis is an All-Star level PG.

But you don't trade a 22 year-old post player for an aging, injury prone, me-first pg like Davis. You make that trade to get you an Championship, you don't make it at this stage of building the team.

Re: Law- IMO, he is only half a season away from being able to run the offense and qb the defense. It really depends on the coach. If we keep Woodson then Law may never develop w/ the Hawks. Woodson depends way too much on his PG to be the offense coach. In Woody's offense Law doesn't have a chance as Law just doesn't have the experience to run an NBA offense that has so little structure to it. If we get a HC that understands offense and can coach Law, then we have a true PG that can play defense on our hands. Is Law an All-star type player? I don't think so. I think he's a Marc Jackson-like guy who will play on a few A-S games, but at the same time, be a key player on a championship run.

Re: Trading JS- you only move JS for an equivalent young talent. I don't see any trades that make sense for the Hawks for JS right now, but someone out there may get hard-up to get Josh and offer a bonanza of young players and/or picks.

My trade alternative trade was Bibby and Marvin for Baron and Azubuike. In that scenario the Marvin piece was for Azubuike.

Azubuike is better than Marvin, by far.

Again, forget about trading Josh Smith.

As far as Baron. He is the ideal type PG for Woody. Baron is Bibby with better defense, bigger body and killer instincts. Acie has to shoot better and be tougher mentaly and physically.

Woody is a coach that demands players to be Men. That has been the problem with these young players. It is why Boris could not produce (a bit cissy), why Marvin and JSmith has had problems. Cause coach demands them to Man-up. Law came in with such bravado but wimped through November and December when the big boys started bringing it (as veterans do).

It's a Man's game.

[DavidSomerset]

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The questions you have to answer is:

1) J Smith

2) Will Davis play more than 40-50 games? If yes, then there is some sense to getting him; however, Davis has a bad reputation as a me first guy. Second, Davis' contract is much harder to move than Bibby's (~17+ mil vs. ~14.5 mil respectively).

3) can the Hawks get more in return for an expiring Bibby contract in the middle of the season than a broke-down Davis now?

In terms of talent I see what you are saying in that Davis is, when healthy, better than Bibby. However, Davis is never healthy, therefore you can't make that argument.

Thus, you are trading a healthier player in Bibby and a more explosive and higher potential player in Smith, PLUS, a possible bench scorer in Andersen for an often injured, me-first PG, and a servicable 240 lb center. I can't see how that is a winning trade for the Hawks. GS, however, would jump all over this.

1) Maybe from an individual standpoint Josh Smith is better than Biedrins, but I would absolutely argue that Biedrins would make this team better. Allow Horford to move to PF, get a great defense and rebounding oriented C with a high FG%.

I would ABSOLUTELY trade Josh Smith for Biedrins straight up...Not because he's a better player, but because it would make our TEAM better.

Horford at PF>Josh Smith (as much as I love him)

2) Before last season, Baron Davis lost like 15 pounds...Then he ended up playing all 82 games...as long as he keeps the weight off, he's good to go.

3) Broken down??!?!?! He just played EVERY SINGLE GAME last year, and when healthy (as he was for the entire season), he is a top 4 PG in the league.

Adding a top 4 PG in the LEAGUE to this team along with getting a top shelf defensive and rebounding center (thus moving Horford to his natural PF) would put us in the upper echelon of the East.

FOR THE RECORD: Just in case people try to call me a "hater" of Josh Smith, he is my favorite player on the Hawks currently.

However, I will trade anyone on this team as long as it makes us better.

[frosgrim]

Davis has a degenerative knee condition that is not going to get better, in fact, it will get worse. The fact that Davis almost never plays a full season is a huge red flag. Furhtermore, that he did play all the games last season, hobbling at times, is actually another red flag, in that the wear on that knee is now going to be even worse. Look at the quotes from Nelly, he doesn't know if Davis will play nearly game to game, let alone season to season.

Again, you make a trade for Davis if you are going for a title. The trade you suggested doesn't get the Hawks to that level. Therefore, you don't make the trade.

Re Biendris, he's a PF playing Center. That he grabs boards, is an artifact of that crazy up and down offense that Nelly is running. I don't see him as an upgrade over the Horford-Smith tandom at all, esp. at the cost of Smith/Bibby/Andersen. If you want to go and get a center-like player then go after Jeff Foster who can control the paint and glass in the half-court.

One last thing, GS would gladly dump Davis' contract. They have Ellis to run the point in their system. Sending two of the Hawks most valuable assests to GS for that package in return is just terrible.