Childress Trade: The Marvin and Joe Factors

[khaos7]

Honestly, it is very difficult for me to separate Marvin Williams and his productivity and Joe's max deal from this Childress trade discussion.

Flow with me on this...

I, for one, never felt Childress had a fair shake at a starting role. Remember, Childress and Josh Smith came into the league listed as small forwards. During his first year, Chills played a little three and two. However, his position wasn't truly defined because 1) the cupboard was bare; players played where needed and 2) Billy Knight wanted a team of long athletic wingmen.

Enter Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

Going into the 05-06 season, the thought was Marvin was a potential superstar and Joe could play point guard. Thus, Paul and D. Williams weren't drafted and Childress was slated to play the two to exploit his length. So the starting line up was slated to be. Joe-PG, Chillz SG, Josh Smith SF, Al Harrington PF, and Zaza C. As it turned out, it was determined that Joe wasn't a good fit at the one, despite Billy Knight's dream line up. Thus, Joe was pushed to the two and Tyrone Lue was the starting point guard. The odd man out was Childress. Woodson felt his best fit was a spark off the bench. After all, Josh despite his bad shooting, Josh Smith was a major talent and the # 2 pick was spent on Marvin.

Al Harrington wound up being traded and the four spot was alternated by Shelden Williams and Josh Smith. Childress played a little 3 and here and there (mostly when Joe got injured). Still he didn't secure a starting job. The losing season landed us in the lottery again and we landed Al Horford.

We trade Shelden, Lue, and Anthony Johnson for Mike Bibby and he becomes our pg, Horford surplants Zaza as our starting center, Smith is firmly postioned as our four and Childress is our sixth man. Despite his unhappiness, the thought was he was better able to come of the bench than Marvin, because he was an energy guy. He proved as much during the Boston series, being arguably the most consistant guy in the series.

Knight resigns and Rick Sund comes aboard. Sund tells Childress to find a deal. Whispers emerge that Chillz feels he hasn't had a fair shake at becoming a starter and he pulls a trump card: he signs with Greece.

Marvin is inked to a long term deal the following year and Joe is given the max the next. The Hawks cap situation makes it impossible to bring him back.

Just looking over the history of this thing, it is apparent to me. IMHO, no two players have more to do with Childress being gone than Joe and to a larger degree Marvin.

Joe not panning out at the one led to a chain of events which squeezed Chillz out of the SG position. His max deal made it impossible to resign him. That said, Joe is an all star.

The lack of competion between Marvin and Childress is what bothers me most. It seems as if Marvin was given a starting role and Childress never had the opportunity to surplant him. Truth be told, if Childress is better than Marvin, or vice versa, it's not by much. That said, Woody never allowed these guys to duke it out to prove who was better. What could be said about Childress was he did the little things. Marvin has yet to carve out his niche.

All three guys have a chance to prove themselves this year. Marvin will finally have a coach who may draw plays for him. Joe was given the max and has to prove he's better than what we saw against Orlando. Childress will go to the Suns, an offense that could exploit his strengths. For Hawks fans, the issue isn't whether Childress will be better than Joe. That's not up for debate. Joe is an All Star. Childress is not.

We all must hope for is Childress has less of a positive impact on the Suns than Joe or Marvin does for the Hawks. Otherwise, some of the questionable decisions made in the past that made it possible for Chillz to leave will come back and slap us in the face.

[pimp]

Honestly, it is very difficult for me to separate Marvin Williams and his productivity and Joe's max deal from this Childress trade discussion.

Flow with me on this...

I, for one, never felt Childress had a fair shake at a starting role. Remember, Childress and Josh Smith came into the league listed as small forwards. During his first year, Chills played a little three and two. However, his position wasn't truly defined because 1) the cupboard was bare; players played where needed and 2) Billy Knight wanted a team of long athletic wingmen.

Enter Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams.

Going into the 05-06 season, the thought was Marvin was a potential superstar and Joe could play point guard. Thus, Paul and D. Williams weren't drafted and Childress was slated to play the two to exploit his length. So the starting line up was slated to be. Joe-PG, Chillz SG, Josh Smith SF, Al Harrington PF, and Zaza C. As it turned out, it was determined that Joe wasn't a good fit at the one, despite Billy Knight's dream line up. Thus, Joe was pushed to the two and Tyrone Lue was the starting point guard. The odd man out was Childress. Woodson felt his best fit was a spark off the bench. After all, Josh despite his bad shooting, Josh Smith was a major talent and the # 2 pick was spent on Marvin.

Al Harrington wound up being traded and the four spot was alternated by Shelden Williams and Josh Smith. Childress played a little 3 and here and there (mostly when Joe got injured). Still he didn't secure a starting job. The losing season landed us in the lottery again and we landed Al Horford.

We trade Shelden, Lue, and Anthony Johnson for Mike Bibby and he becomes our pg, Horford surplants Zaza as our starting center, Smith is firmly postioned as our four and Childress is our sixth man. Despite his unhappiness, the thought was he was better able to come of the bench than Marvin, because he was an energy guy. He proved as much during the Boston series, being arguably the most consistant guy in the series.

Knight resigns and Rick Sund comes aboard. Sund tells Childress to find a deal. Whispers emerge that Chillz feels he hasn't had a fair shake at becoming a starter and he pulls a trump card: he signs with Greece.

Marvin is inked to a long term deal the following year and Joe is given the max the next. The Hawks cap situation makes it impossible to bring him back.

Just looking over the history of this thing, it is apparent to me. IMHO, no two players have more to do with Childress being gone than Joe and to a larger degree Marvin.

Joe not panning out at the one led to a chain of events which squeezed Chillz out of the SG position. His max deal made it impossible to resign him. That said, Joe is an all star.

The lack of competion between Marvin and Childress is what bothers me most. It seems as if Marvin was given a starting role and Childress never had the opportunity to surplant him. Truth be told, if Childress is better than Marvin, or vice versa, it's not by much. That said, Woody never allowed these guys to duke it out to prove who was better. What could be said about Childress was he did the little things. Marvin has yet to carve out his niche.

All three guys have a chance to prove themselves this year. Marvin will finally have a coach who may draw plays for him. Joe was given the max and has to prove he's better than what we saw against Orlando. Childress will go to the Suns, an offense that could exploit his strengths. For Hawks fans, the issue isn't whether Childress will be better than Joe. That's not up for debate. Joe is an All Star. Childress is not.

We all must hope for is Childress has less of a positive impact on the Suns than Joe or Marvin does for the Hawks. Otherwise, some of the questionable decisions made in the past that made it possible for Chillz to leave will come back and slap us in the face.

Wasn't Marvin Williams drafted "BEFORE" we signed JJ

I'm pretty sure we didn't sign JJ until late Aug of that year.

Joe had no effect on us not drafting a pg.

Edited July 12, 2010 by pimp

[HawkItus]

He won't be starting in Phoenix either. So I think his lot in NBA life has been set.

[khaos7]

Wasn't Marvin Williams drafted "BEFORE" we signed JJ

I'm pretty sure we didn't sign JJ until late Aug of that year.

Joe had no effect on us not drafting a pg.

Yes, Marvin was drafted before JJ was signed. But it was floated out there that the Hawks was interested in JJ's services, namely as a point guard. Marvin's potential, JJ's capability to play the point and Chris Paul's height all factored into the decisions.

[jerrywest]

Suns depth chart according to Suns fans

SG: JRichardson, Chillz

SF: Hill, Dudley,

PF: Tork

Tork has played SF his entire life and is too weak to play PF. There is no way Chillz will get significant SF minutes.

They also think Chillz is a great outside shooter and will make it bearable when/if JRich leaves next summer.

They also think Chillz is a great peri defender.

[jerrywest]

Yes, Marvin was drafted before JJ was signed. But it was floated out there that the Hawks was interested in JJ's services, namely as a point guard. Marvin's potential, JJ's capability to play the point and Chris Paul's height all factored into the decisions.

All 3 factors were detrimental. If JJ wasn't coming here, the other two factors wouldn't have stopped us from getting DWill. We wanted dWill not paul.

[AHF]

He won't be starting in Phoenix either. So I think his lot in NBA life has been set.

It is a bit ironic to see someone complaining that Chillz never got the chance to start right as Chllz agrees to sign on as a reserve for the Suns.

[pimp]

Yes, Marvin was drafted before JJ was signed. But it was floated out there that the Hawks was interested in JJ's services, namely as a point guard. Marvin's potential, JJ's capability to play the point and Chris Paul's height all factored into the decisions.

BK would have been a fool, to assume we would sign JJ

Don't forget the the Hawks struckout in free agency the last 2 years before we signed JJ.

Remember how we were rumored to get Keyon Martin all year??.Dampier, Chandler and others

Also JJ was rumored to be going to Cleveland as well as other places.

[swanlee]

I'm glad chillz is gone and this whole mess is over with. He never would have come back to play here, at least we got something for him. He was not the answer this year or long term, we need a true center and a future PG not another forward.