Diesel's Trade of the Day...

[Guest]

Being that Tuesday is a double day....

First:

JT/Nazr to Seattle for Lewis/Radmanovic.

Then....

Toni/1st to Toronto for Clark

Clark/Theo/

SAR/Radmanovic/Hendu

Lewis/CC

DJ/Glover/Ira

JV/Edump

[Hawks4ever]

I would do any of those trades, but the other teams would laugh.

[Admin]

Both trades are quite fair I believe. I wouldnt personally make them because I dont want to lose JT for one, and secondly because our backcourt would be terrible. I wouldnt want to depend on Lewis to be our 2nd option. The trades are fair, but I certainly wouldnt do them. Well I take that back, I would do the Toni/First to Toronto trade for Clark. He would make our frontcourt terribly dynamic. I could just imagine having him and Theo in the game swatting everything. He definitely wouldnt start ahead of Theo if thats what you were implying Diesel.

[Guest]

TOni/!st rounder for Keon Clark?Are you kidding?Toronto

is built around defense so why would they want Toni?Why

would they trade Keon for him when Keon is younger/better/

a big man and a shot blocking machine.I think you went

way out there with that trade.Toronto would love and

proclaim Babcock a official joke.(which I think he is right

now)

[chillzatl]

THis guy has done nothing in his career other than play "good" for a 16 game stretch. When he shows he can be more than a disappointment for an entire season, then give him some credit. Until then he is just a lazy big guy who has a lot of potential and very little desire to put it to use.

Toronto wouldn't do the deal, no way in hell. But saying that Clark is this ultra talented player who brings it every night is absurd. There are teams that could easily be suckered into giving up a lot for this guy in the hopes that he might decide to start playing with some passion. While Toni and 1st aren't "a lot" to us, we all know they wouldn't do that deal. And I wouldn't give up what it would take to get him here.

At this point, Leon Smith has just as much potential to deliver as Clark does and he seems willing to actually work for it.

[Guest]

Well, First off, Toronto is not going to have the funding to resign Clark to a longterm deal. Moreover, if he is NOT STARTING, he probably wouldn't want to stay there anyway. Toronto's mistake came by signing Hakeem to their 2 yr deal. And Davis for more than 12 million a yr.

Because of that, they are tied up... Clark wants more than 4.5 million but with: Vince, Davis, Hakeem, Williams, and JYD they don't have the funding to give him even a 6 million dollar deal.

As far as we are concerned, IF we had Clark... IN the deal I just mentioned, i would happily trade Theo for Miller via Houston.

i.e.

Theo to Houston for Cato + #1.

#1/Davis to Cleveland for Miller.

We'd have:

Miller/JV

DJ/Ira/Glover

Lewis/CC

SAR/Radmonivich/Hendu

Clark/Cato

[Guest]

You underrate both Clark and Toni/1st.

First off, for clarity, I'm not talking about one of our first that we traded for, But I'm talking about our natural first. Secondly, Toni fits what they need. They need an experienced guy off the bench who can play some Sf and hit some shots when Pete is pushing up those bricks. Plus Toni can run the show which means that they can play Childs a little bit more.

[Guest Walter]

1) I agree that Toronto lacks the luxury tax space to resign Clark (without first trading away salary), so how and why do the sign Clark to a salary within 15% of Toni Kukoc's upcoming salary and trade for Toni Kukoc?

2) You say,

"Moreover, if he (Clark) is NOT STARTING, he probably wouldn't want to stay there (Toronto) anyway."

You think Clark would EVER start over Theo?!?

Worse yet you also think that Clark wouldn't be starting over Hakeem!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clark would be starting over Theo but not Hakeem?!?!?!?!?!? Your rationale is not based upon salary since Theo makes more than Hakeem. They are both equally unhealthy historically. WHAT GIVES?!?

I know Lenny Wilkens "loves veterans" but you would never suggest that he does so to a level suggesting utter stupidity unless it was your last, dying option to save yourself from a loser argument.

...

Toronto does not do this trade because:

1) They equally cannot afford to pay Kukoc or Clark given his likely salary (unless luxury tax clearing trades are made)

2) Clark is much better and more valuable to them than Kukoc would be, thus, if they could afford either player, they keep their own, much better and younger player.

3) Clark wouldn't agree to sign with us (over 29 other teams) given your own argument that he wouldn't sign where he will not likely start given that he would MUCH more likely start over Toronto's Hakeem than our Theo.

4) Lenny Wilkens is not GM.

W

[Traceman]

[Guest]

1. Toronto is going to re-sign Keon Clark.

2. Clark will accept a 1 year $4.5M exception deal.

3. Clark owes his career to Lenny Wilkens.

4. Lenny saved Clark from Issel in Denver.

5. Clark was discarded previously from Orlando.

6. Clark knows he has found a home.

7. He'll take the exception until Hakeem retires, 1 yr.

8. Then he'll get Hakeems money.

9. When Dikembe moves, he becomes All-star.

[Traceman]

1) I'm not so sure That Toronto does resign Clark unless they can trade some of their other veterans and lose some salary. I don't see Toronto as one of the franchises who is willing to pay the luxury tax and they are already in luxury tax territory before they sign Clark or their #1 pick. They MIGHT be willing to offer Clark the mid-level exception but I'll bet he can and will get more elsewhere.

2) Clark will NOT accept a 1 year deal at the exception from Toronto. If he does and then resigns with Toronto for a huge contract, the league will cry foul. That is very close to what Joe Smith did in Minnesota. Besides, Clark's value is as high as it is likely to get. He would be a fool to accept a 1 year deal in Toronto with multi year offers on the table. A down year or an injury could cost him $40-$50 million dollars over his career.

3) Please! Clark doesn't owe Lenny or anyone else anything. There is nothing but luxury tax dollars preventing Toronto from matching any offer that Clark gets. If a team offers him a big contract, Toronto has the right to match it. I know I wouldn't be trying to hear anything about me "owing" anybody anything. Basketball is a business and Clark is smart enough to realize that.

4) Lenny gave Clark the opportunity to play and he took advantage of it. He played himself into a good contract. Now, the Raptors can reward him for his good play or they can watch someone else reward him.

5) What happened in the past with Clark is history but it probably only further shows him that he had better take advantage of the situation while the cards are stacked in his favor.

6) Clark is an avid golfer and I'm sure he would LOVE to head back to Orlando, to Phoenix or any other warm weather city where he can play golf year round. In addition, a contract is worth less in Canada than it is in the US.

7) As stated above, that won't happen.

8) Wishful thinking. Besides, he's likely to command a bigger salary than Hakeem is getting.

9) Time will tell if he becomes an All Star but the fact that you think he will is even more of a reason for him to get paid NOW rather than later. What if he gets hurt ala Danny Manning or what if he has a down year and his stock plummets? I don't think he (or his agent) will take that chance. I know I wouldn't if I were his agent. Toronto would either pay him what he could get on the open market REGARDLESS of their luxury tax situation, they could sign and trade him to a team under the cap or they could watch him walk.

3)

[Guest]

the influence that Coach Wilkens has on these players. Its not all business, they absolutely love playing for him. I'm sorry but its the absolute truth.

Not everyone does obviously, see Oakley, but those that are the core of his present team do. see Antonio Davis, Alvin Williams, Mo Pete, JYD, Clark.

Now, that doesnt mean Keon will do anything stupid. Just today, there was talk about Toronto trading Tracy Murray and N'Diaye to the Clippers for a future 2nd pick. This is to free up more money for Clark. Childs and Curry's $4M are already off the books and if they pull off the trade then there's another $4M.

My earlier scenario might work if they are willing to pay the tax, they might, since they did make the playoffs and had excellent attendance all year, i.e. they made plenty money despite Carters injury and early playoff exit. They are very close to winning the East and are leaning towards doing whats necessary to win it all.

Problem is, Vince Carter's contract kicks in July 1 and soaks up the Childs/Curry money so they have to make a trade and get nothing in return. Plus, theyve got to get backct. help in the draft and maybe a free agent on the cheap.

However, priority #1 is getting Keon Clark signed and happy. He wont get the max, he probably wont get much more than the exception. There's nothing wrong with taking the $4.5M exception and becoming a FA next season. In fact, next year is the FA season everyones gearing up for anyway. Clark barely clears $1M and change now. The $4.5M would a great raise. And it would help his team out.

Mark my words, I dont know exactly how it will happen, but they will work it out, because the will on both parties is there. He'll take less than FMV and they'll pay a lil' more than they like, but it'll get done in the end.

[Guest]

I agree with Traceman on this....

Clark will not resign with Toronto for 1 yr.

There's too much to risk.

What if he's at the top of his value?

What if he gets injured?

What if somebody else comes along?

Then there are those other deals on the table.

Multiyr.

Sadly enough, another team can offer him a Mid Level deal for multiyears and he would still do better than staying in Toronto. Reason being is becuase:

1. He won't have to pay Canadian taxes.

2. He will have some job insurance.

As far as influence. There are teams that will give him the starting spot. For instance...

What happens, when Detroit offers a 5 yr 35 million dollar deal to Clark??

Do you think he turns it down to take a 1 yr 4.5 million dollar deal?

Do you think he turns it down so that he can split time with Hakeem?

I suggest that if you believe he does... You need to look at the Mo Taylor story a little harder.