crimedog

Yeah, I'm not as pissed about this one as I was about the Clippers game, Laker game, or even the Portland game.

Al seems more flat this season than he did last season. Maybe its because he experienced his first real injury. Note that this is not a criticism, but he has way fewer double doubles and "hustle plays" than he did last season. I felt like the guys started out strong and I actually don't think that they don't like eachother. The fact of the matter is that it is a thin group and at least 3 of the starters (Josh, Al, Joe) have had some injuries this season that have obviously affected their games and mindsets and sometimes guys let that get to their heads. With regards to Woody, sometimes guys tune you out because you suck and sometimes they tune you out because they are just tired of listening to you. Its happened with poor coaches and great ones.

Joe gets double-teamed when he works his way into the paint, but he gets double teamed like any competent player. Smith gets doubled when he drives or posts up, thats why he gets a decent assist total. Marv gets doubled when he drives, he's just got a pretty awful case of tunnel vision on his drives. Joe has the ball in his hands the most so he gets doubled the most. He doesn't get the "constant double or triple teams every time he crosses half court" that some would have you believe though.

You didn't get the memo. Now we want to trade Josh because he's terrible and will never "get it". Try to keep up please.

haha, enough of a genius to go to espn.com

Yeah, I've noticed that Zaza has certain strengths and weaknesses defensively. He's actually not that bad a post defender at all. He's pretty bottom heavy, which might account for the 2 inch vertical, but he's willing to stand his ground. On the other hand, Zaza might be the worst pick and roll defender ever. He has never once been marginally effective at it.

I certainly didn't say that did I? The point is that on the whole, the team does better on defense when Al isn't in the game compared to when he is. It is a legitimate question as to why.

Right, but why is Al's +/- like that?

Meteor, couple of Texas scientists found it before the Ruskies did, read below! http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...e.2ffc97ba.html

Didn't do it when JJ shot 3-158 for the month of January. We aren't really a "big picture" team.

Seconded. Saw the kid play against Okafor who is sort of like a stronger Al at the C spot and Oden was brushing him aside with relative ease. Without the big guy, we really just have to worry about their guards (who will probably shred our perimeter D).

A little off topic. This makes me think, has Joe ever been "happy" in the NBA? Seriously. I remember a lot of talk from Hawks fans who had felt sorry for Joe, it was often in response to Joe's sourpuss routine, they said it sucked that he was stuck with such a crappy young group. The thing is though, he was mopey in Boston and in Phoenix too. Maybe its just who he is. Plus, wasn't Wes Unseld always looking pissed off? Big deal, he won.

Wow... You do realize that this sort of stuff it tracked on espn.com and all you have to do is click on Josh Smith's name to realize that he scores 15.5 in wins and 15.6 in losses (and don't forget, his ankle injury came in a win where he had scored 6 points in 11 minutes which means that if he had played another 20, those numbers would probably be exactly even). Maybe you are on to something though, you can make much more convincing arguments if you just make stuff up. On +/-, its fair to say that this shouldn't be used as the definitive, but it should definitely be examined. With Duncan and the Spurs, there is a pretty clear reason why Duncan's +/- is poor on D, he plays a lot of small ball with defensively inept wings and backcourt players whereas the backup squad pretty much all have weak offensive numbers and big defensive numbers. With Horford, as far as I can tell he gets hurt from a) playing with mediocre perimeter defenders in the starting unit (Bibby is awful, Joe often coasts, and Marv is very up and down) and b) gets hurt from being one of the two backups to Josh Smith who has a huge impact on our team defensively. If anyone can dispute that, I'd like to hear a better explaination, otherwise I do think it damages the movement that the team might somehow be better off keeping Horford and moving Smith. I'm with mrh though, why move either unless someone comes to us with the right deal? I actually think Horford would be a great guy to come off the bench behind Josh and some big lug. Thing about it, he's versatile, not particulalry strong at offense or defense but certainly not weak, he does his best when he's playing with energy and grabbing rebounds and he'd be able to more effectively do that off the bench... maybe its just me seeing things wierd.

We shoulda put a package together for Lebron or Dwight... we just couldn't. The only player who would entice Toronto to give up Bosh is Smith (Joe obviously would be considered but then they'd have to worry about him bolting too which could amount to trading a year and a half of Bosh for a year and a half of Joe). Smith is a) BYC and b) can't be trading without consent... so I'm not too upset that Bosh isn't in a Hawks uni. Beyond that, who was the best player on the market? Amare, and he didn't get traded because the Suns went back to running and gunning. So who was the best player to get traded? JO or Marion. Are those the type of players to take a team like ours out of mediocrity? Especially if the cost of getting them is a starter on our team or multiple quality bench players? No, obviously not. Its a lot easier to say that we should have made an impact move than to actually come up with one that would really have made an impact. We are going to be stuck behind the Cs as long as KG is still KG, we are going to be stuck behind the Cavs and Magic as long as they have Bron' and Dwight. The only way to pass them is to be smart about building a strong, motivated, and cohesive team and the only way to do that is to be smart about the contracts we take on. This team isn't ready to compete. Marv, Al, and Josh are key to this team being competitive and none of them are ready yet, although all of them have shown signs of getting in that direction. My thought is that we have to let them develop another season and then be smart about getting complementary peices who a) want to be here and b) complement our core. Teams who make panic moves at the deadline rarely do well. The Lakers waited a few years of Kobe's prime to make the Gasol move but in the end they were much smarter to do that than to trade for a quickly declining Kidd. I know it sounds like "wait another year" but for the most part, teams don't do what Boston did and go from lottery to championship immediately. We were a 37 win team last season, this season we are hoping for something around a 10 game improvement... that isn't "waiting for next year" that is seeing dramatic improvement.

Yeah, trade seems pretty "blah" to us otherwise.

Has NOTHING to do with Kobe and EVERYTHING to do with being a starter and having a more defined role than "come in and do what we ask of you." If Kobe had this kind of influence, he should have done it earlier in the year when Odom was playing poorly. Its not a coincidence that Odom started having monster rebounding games immediately after Bynum went out.

No doubt, but it sure as hell isn't the only way to be a leader. Like I said, Tim Duncan is always thought of as one of the best leaders in the game. He doesn't do that. Roy, James, Hakeem, nope. Larry Bird and Magic would definitely get in a guy's face, but they were also known as supportive teamates. ... and like I said. Being a d*ck can be a leadership style if you are consistent enough to pull it off. Joe isn't.

I'd do it on the condition that Bosh agreed to sign an extension with us in 2010. Unfortunately Smith is BYC which complicates things and my understanding is that he has to consent to any trade he's in (provided its not to Memphis, where he can't be traded) and I seriously doubt he consents to a trade that forces him to leave his home town and go to a franchise that is crumbling... then again, I don't know him personally.

He's shooting the highest % of his career from the field and finishing the highest % of his career from around the hoop. There are certainly things to get on him about, specifically his inability to grab the ball after it hits the rim and/or backboard, but for now I'm going to be content with a by-far career best in his scoring efficiency.

Whatever. Kobe is more skilled and more athletic than Joe. If Joe had the talent of Kobe, his teamates would react differently to him, unfortunately he doesn't. Lebron and Tim Duncan aren't complete DBags to their teamates most of the time, doesn't mean they aren't as intense as Kobe and it doesn't mean they aren't as good leaders... I don't think Joe has as much leadership acumen as either one of those guys, but thats not the point. As far as the "bet" that Kobe used to motivate Odom into performing, it doesn't take a rocet scientist to realize that Odom has been rebound over twice as much since Bynum went out (and scoring almost twice as much). If Kobe's leadership ability can coax it out of him now, why was he playing like a little girl literally until the game after Bynum went down? Look, there are a lot of guys I'd like Joe to be like. There are qualities that Kobe has that I wish Joe had. Kobe is also a class A jackass who has done just as much to break down certain teamates as he has to pump them up. I don't think Joe can really use the Kobe Bryant leadership techniqe of constantly insulting players, lobbying for them to be traded, and acting like an arrogant jackass because Joe isn't good enough for that to have the same sort of effect as it does with Kobe.

I tell you man, not only is he pretty much always a difference maker when he's out there, but he's a ridiculous fan favorite. He's like Mark Madsen but with the ability to impact a game. Last night obviously wasn't Woodson's fault, it was the fault of the entire team, but why in the world would he not throw Rio in there? If the problem for the ENTIRE game was a lack of energy, why not throw in the most energetic guy we have... the one guy who you know will always come out on fire. Again, I stopped watching but Rio played for 7 minutes and in that time he grabbed 4 boards, made 5(!!!) steals, and got to the line 8 times. WHY DOES HE NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER PLAY!?!?!?

I'm not sure we should expect more out of Al. I'm sure he's capable of more, as has been pointed out, he rarely shows the desire to use his handles to his advantage in the half-court, instead preferring to attempt to post guys up without actually having a post move in his arsenal. I think people just need to start looking at Al like they look at Smith or Marv instead of as some infallable paradigm of humanity. All three of these guys have things that they could improve on to some degree and there is legitimate question as to the extent they will actually improve their weak areas. Should Sund shop him around? Not right now, that would be silly. Sund should view Al's tradability as he should view any other player on our team, if the right deal comes along, the kind that would improve the team, he should pull the trigger. Al's value is certainly lower now than it was this summer when everyone here and around the league was under the impression he was going to morph from Haywood to Malone because he has a good attitude.

Literally every person affiliated with the Atlanta Hawks basketball team was weak as hell last night. All of the starters sucked for their own reasons: Josh got abused on the glass, Joe couldn't hit a shot and really perfected his sulking routine, Al... did Al even play last night?, Marv and Bibby sucked on D and couldn't make a difference on offense, Mo and Acie couldn't hit anything (I did like how Acie pushed the pace though), Woody sat there watching the team blatantly mail one in with his head in his hands... if you're gonna get after a guy, DO IT. I was more animated than Woody and I was watching the game in my room trying to be quiet because my roomate was asleep. I'll give some credit to Zaza and Solo because I thought they were moderately effective. Looks like Rio was effective too but I didn't wait around to see him and I'm 99% sure that his effectiveness won't translate into minutes. This is a game that I don't want to talk about. Not worth it.

Good, its been really annoying to have him sitting there but never playing. I'm glad someone read in the rule book that we are allowed to give these guys game experience if we aren't going to use them. Hopefully he is a Ramon Sessions-esque revelation there.

We didn't have the expiring contracts for it. Marv isn't expiring this season though is he? They'd still have to pay him. They wanted to drop salary ASAP because they are having severe $$$ trouble.