lethalweapon3

ASG wonders how strained peas would count against the luxury tax... ~lw3

Well done! Hoping there's not a "Jason Collins" encircled at the top of the list (or, for that matter, a "Jarron Collins" as well). If forced to take one, I guess either Stewie or the Poet would be my default choices. ~lw3

Way to go! Congratulations to you and yours. Here's to many more good times ahead. ~lw3

^^ Pop Secret! lol I'm sold. Let's get it poppin'! ~lw3

Rasho's taking Josh's spot... http://www.examiner.com/x-52130-NBA-Draft-Examiner~y2010m7d31-Rasho-Nesterovic-signs-with-Olympiacos ~lw3

http://www.sportando.net/eng/italy/serie-a/12465/dinamo_sassari_tabs_big_man_othello_hunter.html ~lw3

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/431492-nba-10-11-season-preview-atlanta-hawks Same crew, different season 'preview'. Unworthy of a new thread. Curious, do these guys actually pay their rent/mortgage with this stuff? ~lw3

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/theres-a-logjam-in-atlanta-and-somethings-got-to-give.php Unless we hear differently, I don't envision the Hawks "elevating" Zaza to a starter spot. ~lw3

Shelly and Acie not panning out (after the flak they received over Marvin)? ~lw3

They're usually on sale at Philips' gift shops during game days. ~lw3

Great find, 'cyde. Although I don't doubt that Smoove will get limited minutes at SF, more likely is the concept that he starts at PF then comes off the bench to spell him. For that to happen, Zaza and (Boone/Elson) and JaCo get significantly more minutes on the floor, and when (not if) they are ineffective we go back to the starter's minutes. Depending on the matchups, Powell will probably get more time at C as well. Critical to making any of this work is for Al to stay healthy and out of foul trouble. possible PF:C rotation: Smoove:Hofo (min 60%) Hofo:Zaza (max 10%) Smoove:Zaza (max 5%) Smoove:J-Pow (max 5%) J-Pow:Zaza (max 5%) J-Pow:Hofo or Hofo:J-Pow (max 10%) Hofo:{Boone or JaCo} (max 5%) alternate rotation (early foul trouble): Smoove:Hofo Smoove:Zaza J-Pow:Zaza Hofo:Zaza Hofo:{Boone or JaCo} Smoove:J-Pow J-Pow:Hofo or Hofo-J-Pow ~lw3

That was a long, rough outing last night. Hope tonight's game is nice and swift, if nothing else! They have got to tighten up on their fielding, though, those late runs were not earned by the Giants' offense. ~lw3

Looks like it turned out okay... http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/100182484.html ~lw3

I overstate Boone's FT importance often because my mind was singed two years ago, watching a late night Nets-Warriors game on ESPN (don't ask) when Nellie unleashed the Hack-A-Boone strategy. Among the funniest and saddest spectacles I have ever witnessed. It was unmitigated torture, that one minute felt like 30. The W's weren't waiting for the ball to come to him. They weren't even waiting for the Nets to bring the ball up. And every miss provoked laughter raining down from the GSW stands. I swore I would never watch a Nets game while he was out there. When it's Shaq I could understand. But Josh Boone? http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-01-25/sports/17149338_1_nets-golden-state-new-jersey Thankfully, it didn't work, so it didn't catch on... ...and Boone hasn't had to take more than 8 free throws in the two seasons' since. So it's not going to be a big deal as long as his minutes are Randolph Morris-low. And if Josh Powell counts as a 'veteran' in Sund's mind, why not Josh Boone? But if anybody starts hacking away while he's on the floor again, I might have to go fetch some antacids. ~lw3

Based on his experience, is he consulting them on what NOT to do? If "do the exact opposite of what I suggest" is the plan (draft excepted), they might be in good shape. Curious how this will work with the full-time FIU gig. Can't come in contact with college players but you're a college coach? Either way, this can't possibly go over well as far as the Knicks' PR. Funniest fan response so far, "When does Rich Kotite return to the Jets?" http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/thomas_slithers_in_as_consultant_SBMaCWUZbQ3O38bQn8qsjP#ixzz0vw9HMvHT ~lw3 "says otherwise." I can't spell worth a dang anymore. ~lw3

SI's Ian Thomsen revealed how he PLANNED to vote a week before the votes arrived... and he anticipated Horford being a Center (Interesting rationale on Bogut, BTW, who he made second team, and snubbed Bosh rather than Horford?)... http://m.si.com/news/to/to/detail/2525272;jsessionid=331742036BF7FE65D2073C74D6E7DE94.cnnsi1 ...but is that how the ballots arrived? ~lw3

You and I together provided more facts and corrections in this one post on this subject than anybody cared to back in January anywhere. No shame there. By your estimation, Bogut not only rebuked Horf's but Chris Kaman's (remember this is All-NBA voting, not just All-Eastern Conference), whose numbers indeed declined as the Clippers rolled off into the sunset. And maybe even Bosh (will explain why in a sec). And one more big self-correction... the voting for All-NBA is broadcasters and sportswriters (not execs as I suggested earlier), and head coaches vote for the All-Star reserves. So it's the media rebuking the coaches (and to a lesser extent, the fans, if voting counts for anything). One more factor... do we know for sure that the All-NBA balloting is the same as the All-Star? That is, is Horford listed as a Forward when the sportswriters voted? Splitting votes with Josh and Zach Randolph and Dirk and Crash and Bosh (?) and Boozer (?) brings the number of votes down a ton, and if it's down to Dwight, Amar'e, Bogie, and butkiss among the centers, that would explain the Magic-Hawks-style disparity in votes between Al and Andrew more than insidious rebuking would. Sekou or somebody could probably find this out for us. ~lw3

Originally Posted by knickballer (replying to that clever tontoz dude arguing for Horford's merits) ...and of course 'tontoz' (ahem) then told him off pretty darn good, if I may say so. Poodle replies to knickballer: plowking says: "Bogut got robbed" And that's just getting into Page 2 of a thread not named "Did they get it right?" but the far more leading, "David Lee got Robbed". Everybody fusses over 18 pages over who got robbed and no Kum-bi-yas at the end. and once more, no more quantitative factors to back up their individual assertions (like you and I just did over six months later). There are a number of people who agreed with 'tontoz' in that thread as well, but we're focusing only on the disagreements among the ones who said Horf shouldn't make it (D Lee!... no, Bogut!... no, Shaq!, no, Noah! no...) This lack of unanimity among this small sample shows why neither Bogut nor Lee stood out enough to get love from the selectors (now I feel like playing reggae... "Come down!"). And RealGM couldn't find enough of an issue on it to get beyond three pages. The question to ask KnickSquawkers is, after the All-Star judges (or is it Stern?) had another crack at it, why was Bogut robbed by David Lee? ~lw3

Thank goodness for ESPN (they even have per-48 splits, too). Not the purest of stats in the sense that they have pre-All Star BREAK rather tha pre-All Star SELECTION, but that's just a few games that won't make much difference. Also they didn't show Post All-Star numbers but we can infer. Pre All-Star Per-Game Splits: Al's Pre All-Star (Total) G 51 (81) Mins 34.9 (35.1) FGA-FGM 5.5-9.9 (5.8-10.5) FG% 56.262 (55.136) FTA-FTM 2.3-3.0 (2.6-3.3) FT% 76.316 (78.889) Stl 0.69 (0.73) Blk 1.22 (1.12) TOs 1.5 (1.5) PF 2.8 (2.8) OReb 2.7 (2.9) DReb 6.7 (7.0) TotalReb 9.4 (9.9) Asts 2.1 (2.3) Pts 13.4 (14.2) Horf shot lower from the field but much better from the stripe after the break. He blocked fewer shots (particularly in March, a season low 0.63 per), but on balance had more points, steals, and rebounds. And Horf's top scoring (February) and rebounding (March and April) months came after the All-Star selection. My assertion that Horf declined after the All-Star break is as false as Grandma Lethal's teeth! Andrew's Pre All-Star (Total) G 45 (69) Mins 32.3 (32.3) FGA-FGM 6.9-13.2 (6.9-13.2) FG% 52.181 (51.978) FTA-FTM 2.2-3.4 (2.2-3.4) FT% 63.399 (62.869) Stl 0.56 (0.57) Blk 2.18 (2.54) TOs 2.0 (1.9) PF 3.3 (3.2) OReb 3.0 (3.0) DReb 7.2 (7.1) TotReb 10.2 (10.2) Asts 1.9 (1.8) Pts 16.0 (15.9) Also correct is exodus' assertion that Bogut's overall numbers did not get immensely better after the Break. In fact... they're eerily similar. The one notable exception is Blocks (by Month: Oct's couple games - 1.00, Nov - 1.88, Dec - 2.00, Jan - 2.67, Feb - 2.79, Mar - 3.14, Apr's couple games before the fall - 3.50). The significant uptick in blocks coupled with the Bucks' rise gave him more prominence among the Centers than earlier in the season. Also, his top rebounding month (January) and his top scoring and assists month (November) was before the All-Star break, not after. Last thing to highlight is the relative differences in Pre-All-Star game performance. Bogut was the better scorer, rebounder, and shot blocker, and the worse (forgive the verb usage... worser?) in shooting, passing, and avoiding foul trouble. Yet the advantages for Bogut were not enough to sway attention of All-Star fans balloting (at least, not until after the picks are made) or the selectors for the Reserves. That maintains the arguments that winning significantly matters, both before the All-Star Break, and after, when it's All-NBA voting time. ~lw3

Among the ones who aren't happy with the picks, the InsideHoopsters fussed over: (a) The forwards that didn't get in ahead of him (Why not Josh Smith?) (b) Shaq deserving some kind of a mercy award (I like his Jabbawockee stuff too but dang!) © The centers that didn't get in (Forget Shaq... David Lee deserved it! No, not Lee, he's not a real center either, Bogut! No, not Bogut!) On the InsideHoops thread, "magnax1" states his location as: The Jennings and Wall bandwagon. We can see where his allegiance was hitched before commenting on "Bogut is better" (with no quantitative argument to show for it). Nuggs fan "MeLo MvP 15" bases his argument on the Aliznotacenter angle (like say, Nene). He's not a center, but plays center, and still puts up comparable numbers to the handful of "true" centers on a first-place team? All-Star Reserve. Still, the biggest fuss he makes includes "I don't think it's horrible he made it..." "Rekindled" says David Lee over Horford with a Gallinari avatar on the side. "browntown" a self-described "decent college freshman" was "pissed" about Horf over both Lee and Bogut. "catzhernandez" says, "Al Horford making it is a joke. Dude's putting up the same numbers as Jamaal Magloire in 04, yet where's the hate??" Then contradicts his argument immediately with, "And off topic a bit, Magloire beasted in that single AS game he was in. 19/8 in 21 minutes." "JustinJDW" says, "I thought Shaq would play in this All-Star Game, since it might be his last. He always brings a lot of fun into it. Sucks he isn't in. **** you Horford." Sounds like an axe to grind that doesn't involve Bogut. "rfoster24" a Kobe fan, says "c'mon complete joke. so many other forwards to choose from." (focus, Daniel-san!) "inmypjs" in his first and last ever post, says: "Players who make it because their team has a winning record really does not deserve it as much as those who are playing All-Star numbers with a team losing record. For some reason, the coaches are biased in favor of players on winning teams. Monte Ellis deserves to be an All-Star over Billups or Brooks but his team is 3rd to last in the league so he will never make it." He's getting the picture. "nolebball" says "Lee over Horford was a given." I'll assume that the Tallahassee guy is not a big fan of either. Still nothing as to why for any arguments. You should've taken up their cause, ex! You have anything more than one (and a quarter) threads? I trust you're crunching the numbers and will wait for ya. ~lw3

Yeah, it wasn't a handful. More like a fingerful. :) Again, we'll agree to disagree unless you find some more evidence, other than three-page threads with the same posters arguing with each other, that this was an issue. As a favor, on the RealGM thread can you bump the thread now that the posters with hurt butts have less of a stake, and see how many more say Horford now that the All-Star Game has actually been played? And did I say something about April? I don't recall him playing much in April (thank Gawd), although I do recall his play in February and March. Actually, there were two times Andrew Bogut fell into our collective consciousness last season. One was serving up the pacifier to Big Baby and the Celtics. The other one, sadly, was when he went head-over-heels (in April). Both events allowed the media to highlight to the league Bogut's importance to Milwaukee's relevance in terms of competitive playoff contention. Neither occurred in time for All-Star contention. But they did occur right when it was time to start standing out for All-NBA. I trust that his numbers were not that much different, but I do recall that Horford's went collectively down as the Bucks and Hawks inched closer to each other in the standings. Can anyone crank out the stats pre- and post-AllStar for both? Again, this assumes anyone cares. Again, it comes back to winning. Improve your lot in the standings at a position lacking depth in the league and you get noticed. For Bogut and his Bucks, unfortunately, it happened a half-month too late. One more self-correction, though. I keep harping on "media market" as a factor, as if Nielsen ratings have anything to do with it. It's "fan market" (Celtics, Knicks, Raps, Lakers) which accounts for reasons why, say, a David Lee gets a "personal leave replacement" pick over Andrew Bogut, despite Bogut's purportedly vastly outstanding factors. "Media market" implies that guys like Kaman and Iguodala get a leg up, which is not the case. ~lw3

Looks like we'll agree to disagree, then. If a handful of smitten homers on message boards constitutes "a lot," who's to say differently. We have more discussion of the merits of Bogut v. Horford on this thread than was produced in the Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Marietta and Milwaukee-Waukesha homervilles combined. And the fact that just you and I are the sole folks fussing, then and now, tells you how much anyone cares or should care about it. No Sporting News/ESPN/FoxSports/NBATV analysis from January or February showing why this was a bad selection? Just OMGs from RealGM and InsideHoops hit-and-run posters? Says it all. But it takes it back to what was the issue at hand, then, once it was accepted that another big was needed on the East. It was not Horford v. Bogut. It was Horford v. Bogut v. Lee v. Lopez v. Bargnani (if Raps fans are to be believed) And when the comparative numbers get negligible, the selectors look at the standings. And picked. If the argument boils down to whether we ('da fans") should have liked it or not, then Bogut reinforced their arguments with a strong second half worthy of adulation, that was at least coincidental with the Bucks becoming legit playoff contenders. ~lw3

When a GM or coach making an All-Star reserve pick get down to the qualitative merits of Kurt Thomas versus Zaza Pachulia, it's well past time to vote. And the results are history. Fortunately, for all of us, the selectors don't "wonder" when it's time to pick the final All-Stars. ~lw3

Just gonna note... I know this thread bores the living hell out of the rest of you, I understand! ~lw3

...which Horford made up for on the offensive end. (Net is one line down, and it's +10.7 per 100 possesions for Horford and +8.0 for Bogut, despite all his points,blocks, boards, etc). It's not the All-Defensive-Star team. Annnd unfortunately they were 7th in the NBA in giving up rebounds. I trust you know the link. Again, read above where I clarified that Horf got "snubbed" over Bogut for winning and media-market indifference, and over Lee for winning and defense. I apologize for lumping them together for convenience without thinking somebody needed more parsing. Here it is again from earlier on this page: GMs and coaches making the pick could care less about one side of the ball or the other unless there is a significant gap to pay attention to. There was none here. And being a handful of surprising games ahead of the Pacers doesn't merit All-Star consideration when the numbers are negligible. Being a half-game above the preseason favorite for the Southeast Division does. Just win, baby. It's a shame that Bogut (like Bogut and every other center) couldn't do it all by himself. If he could... well, he'd have been an All-Star! He'll just have to "settle" for 3rd Team All-NBA, which I'll say again with my loudest homer voice, he deserved.