RedDawg#8

Wondering who will be the first to blame Trae for that run the Pacers just went on while he was sitting on the bench lol

I don’t disagree that the different era played a factor, but Joe had free reign and the ball in his hands as the #1, Murray is doing this not just as the #2 guy, but next to a ball dominant guard that takes a lot of scoring and assist opportunities away from DJ. I think the 2 balance out. Joe was bigger and better on defense, yes.

Well then I would have to say that Quinn gets it. Build this thing like the Bad Boy Pistons and surround Zeke, I mean Trae, with size, physicality, and toughness, and let Trae go to work. We are already seeing him transform in to a scrappy and timely defensive playmaker despite his size. As long as these big dudes can hit an outside shot, we will be just fine. JJ unlocks this whole thing. He has the playmaking ability that we can put on the court with Trae and not lose anything. Trae and the goons, I love it.

21-5-4rebs and 45% shooting is essentially what Joe Johnson averaged as the best player and an All Star of those Hawks teams. So yeah, I would say DJM is a star based on his production. Any other market and this wouldn’t be a debate.

“Overrated!!!, **clap, clap, clap-clap -clap**

TNT broadcast just name dropped DJ as the Lakers’ top trade target. Stating “the Lakers really want to add speed to their backcourt, the name to look out for, DeJounte Murray.”

If the Hawks happen to string together a few wins this weekend I predict DJ’s availability for trade will shift. Especially with the lack of value in return or fit on the receiving team for him. He is only open to being traded as long as it makes sense. Ball watching Lebron, playing next to Brunson, or playing in Toronto are not appealing to DJ I’m sure. With 4 winnable games coming up the locker room could feel much different in a week.

The best individual player mentioned in all of these scenarios is Lavine. Offensively he is the best fit for an off guard or wing next to Trae who can light it up. Think Bogi with hops. But defensively…….. Quinn would be having nightmares. Brooklyn has the best player assets and is the best landing spot for Murray. Both are viewed as the least likely trade partners for the Hawks. Go figure.

I mean…. tell us something new, those of us that support Trae have been saying this for years but the “he’s too little” crowd gets louder by the day.

Agreed that picks as assests are valuable moreso than picks we plan to keep and put more youth around Trae. The motivation for the Spurs is this, when you get a promising star, you waste no time building around him. They still have their own picks, they don’t need (2) rookies every year for the next 3 of the next 4 years when they already have so much youth. You want to know what Dallas did with Luka, after his rookie season they were bringing in veteran talent that fit around him.You don’t waste time surrounding youth with more youth because it’s so hard to teach them winning habits AND keep all of them happy when they’re competing against each other for roles and minutes. As good as Wemby is, the best thing they can do for him is put players around him that can play the right way and teach him how to win. That’s what we should have done with Trae. Size, Length, Defense and Shooting. If they aren’t a superstar they better check off at least (2) of these boxes.

I really like the length of Claxton and newfound defensive effort of Dennis Smith. Both are FA’s this offseason. Claxton could fit next to JJ or OO up front.

I agree with everything in principle. But in practice, without Quinn planning any changes to lineup or strategy, the front office not committed to winning this season, and with no one safe in these trade rumors, etc… I don’t see this team running on to the court with some newfound confidence and enthusiasm. This team lost it’s fight in those 14 games Jalen missed. They realized how overmatched they were and there was no help from coaching or the FO to do anything about it. We are in a big hole and our 2nd best player is on the outs. I guarantee the players in the locker room hear way more rumors on themselves than we do as fans. Not a single player feels committed to a winning cause this season. They don’t know if they will be here in a few weeks. I want to be hopeful, but this season just ain’t it for the Hawks.

Based purely on product and results it’s not even a question. Even Prunty got more out of this core roster than Quinn has. But, I am giving him the benefit of doubt, maybe foolishly, maybe because I have no other choice. Quinn had (2) losing seasons in Utah before they became perennial winners. I do buy the idea that his system takes time to implement. Heck even Bud started with a losing record his first season in charge. This brand of basketball is not for the faint of mind. The Hawks stopped developing players when they switched from LP to Nate, so a lot of our young guys have hit a re-set on their clock under Quinn as he works against bad habits that have not been coached out. You don’t look this lost on defense as a team compared to just last season when the only player you lost was JC. They didn’t forget how to play, they are learning a new language. Quinn has a great staff, he has some great basketball minds working behind the scenes. I absolutely hate his utilization of personnel in the face of injury or foul trouble, but I am accepting that he is not willing to put a band aid on this roster anymore just so we can have style points and win now. He is absolutely committed to tearing down the old way of playing so that our ceiling raises from just good to potentially great some day. Again, I could be foolish but what choice do we have but to buy in?

Great question. From an outside perspective it looks like they wanted more spacing in the starting lineup around Wemby. Champagnie was the guy inserted into the lineup in KJ’s place. KJ is .344 from 3 and Champagnie is shooting .391% Other than that, Keldon is still playing the most minutes on the team at over 32 a night off the bench while Champagnie is still hovering just below 20 mpg as a starter, so it’s giving Ginobli vibes.

Better question, if we get our picks back does that mean we can convince Travis to come back too? “Just kidding about that DJ trade, Travis, no harm no foul, right?”

Picks don’t win chips. BUT Picks can be used to acquire players who can help win chips. Rookies and the AJ Griffins of the world are not enough to go against the top teams with proven All-NBA players. Take the Spurs. They have a ton of draft picks and young players. They finally drafted a centerpiece and what’s the first thing you hear? They are willing to come off ALL of those picks they acquired to put a veteran talent around their young superstar. Drafting is a huge crap shoot and it takes YEARS for these kids to become viable players. A 2025 #16 overall pick is not what is going to keep Trae from leaving town.

You been carrying us for years lol

JC is not a bad player or person. I wish people could separate a bad contract (not terrible, just bad) from their opinion of him. You don’t have to root against the guy just to feel better about JJ or the Hawks for that matter. He helped us win a lot of games and since the ECF season our record with him healthy and in the lineup vs without him stands up against many other house favorites around here. In the same breath, there doesn’t have to be an ounce of regret just to say nice things about the guy. We moved on, but for some reason our side are the ones acting like the bitter exes in the breakup.

Kelden is Pop’s golden boy, that would be a major development if he not only trades him but includes the picks. Kelden is so beloved and overrated in SA that I am surprised Pop isn’t demanding a 1 for 1 swap. He is their “OG Anonouby” lol

If Trae becomes a defensive playmaker it’s game over. Next improvement will be turnovers.

I hear you, and appreciate you for making clear we are not rebuilding. But like you said, I have almost no faith that we will: a) acquire the kind of assets other teams will find attractive. (If teams were attracted to them, how would we out bid anyone to get them first?) b) successfully flip those assets for established “stars” that fit. (See DJM) c) get value back in any trade that helps us on the court (see every Hawks trade ever) I feel like we are in this position because we tried and failed to each of these things already. I feel like we should be collecting expirings and hope to be players in FA, not in trades or the draft. Trae needs vets around him not more youth. Experience wins in the NBA, not youth.

There is no such thing as a one man team. Every name that has done anything has had to do it with help, IF they were able to do it all. Lebron hasn’t won shit without another Max player. Giannis hasn’t won shit without (2) other All-Star, All Defense, level players Luka hasn’t won shit, full stop. Harden has played next to more max/elite talent than anyone and hasn’t won shit. Kawhi has had (1) season where he was healthy and elite, and carried a franchise to the promised land and you know what? Lowry, Vanvleet, Siakam, Gasol, Valunciunas, Anunouby, Ibaka, Norm Powell, Danny Green, and Delon Wright was one helluva supporting cast to have to “carry”. So yeah, one man team. If you want to make a point about Trae being too little or not good enough to do it alone, great, make that point. But keep EVERYTHING in perspective when trying to compare him to “real” superstars, especially ones twice his size that needed twice the amount of help to do great things.

No better way to start off the day/week than with an agenda! Thanks for the breakdown @benhillboy have a happy Monday!

They’ve been secretly wishing that was the case since he broke out as a young star. That’s more indicative of how they don’t respect the Hawks as an organization to keep a star player (especially one repped by Klutch)than it is about Trae personally.

I truly believe OO, and likely others, are struggling with whatever concepts Quinn wants to run. OO still makes eye popping plays but just not as often. He still has elite physical ability and defensive skillset, but he is often not in position to do anything with it. It’s like he is a rookie again where the game is moving too fast. I see this from a lot of our guys. We have some high level basketball players on this team that have been used to a coach/system that took advantage of their talent individually. Quinn is putting in a system that takes 5 guys on the same page on both sides and it may take you away from your strengths for the betterment of the whole. Clint and OO used to feast in drop PnR coverage protecting the paint, Quinn wants them up. He want wings to close in on the paint which is why open three’s are killing us and we have no physical resistance at the rim anymore because the rotation are small bodies. OO in theory should excel better in this scheme because he is more mobile than CC but he is also having to read a larger field of view with more defensive responsibilities. It’s going to take time for a lot of guys to figure out the nuances and their spots. It’s no longer about talent anymore. It takes IQ. I think that’s why Trae has excelled after such a rough start, because he is a brilliant basketball player. Same with JJ. He was actually more limited in the Nate scheme. He is showcasing all of his basketball tools in Quinn’s scheme because it calls for that versatility. I don’t know that effort is all that would help. Because doing too much in this scheme hangs your teammates out to dry. Just like we said in October with Trae, OO needs time to adjust and figure his new spots out.