kurupt

Your point is what? Dennis cannot be compared to these players because what? Because he was better at 23 years old than most of them?! Like, you argued against your own point, buddy.

The retardation in this thread is unreal. Unbearable to read posts here. Schröder was the best Hawks player in the playoffs, scoring 24.7 ppg with 7.7 assists while shooting 45.5% overall and 42.5% from 3 - and doing it against a red hot John Wall. Do you really think that the Wizards did not try to stop him? Diesel and his boys talking about Hardayway Jr. as a real option on offense when he shot 33% (YES THRIRTY-THREE) overall and 26% from 3 in the playoffs. The Hawks were a 2-man show offensively in the playoffs. Yet somehow some people think that he will play WORSE in the regular season than last year...after a full additional summer working on his game again.

Irving is as dumb as a brick and it is showing again. Hands off this dude, let the Knicks trade for him. Hewon 21, 24 and 33 games before James arrived and he thinks he is going to make a team better. Bitch please...

Only gave him the most post touches + post ups in the whole league. It is his own fault that he outright refused to do anything else.

Belinelli is a pretty good contract btw. 2 years at 6.6 million per is great value for a player that is better than THJr and Bazemore right now and provides what the Hawks need the most: shooting.

I just need to quote my old posts. This is amazing. I was also spot-on on Dwight 8 weeks ago:

Has Schröder stolen your GF or what is wrong with you?!

Best player o nthe Hawks. My goodness. You are like a child.

The truth is that Dwight Howard is aboiut as as smart and knowledgeable about basketball as you are. He is elite at rolling to the basket in P&R plays - and refuses to play them. He sucks ass at scoring in the post and tries it at the highest rate in the whole league - and wants more of it. And after 10+ years of not improving a lick as a basketball palyer, he is talkingabout developing a 3-point shot. He is absolutely clueless and delusional i nregards of what he can and can't do. That's why he is gone. Had he embraced his role as a defensive anchor/reboudner/P&R-screen setter the Hawks would have been a lot better and he would still be here.

Just was the best player in the playoffs in his first year as a starter and against one of the best PGs in the whole league in a golden era of PGs. Let's bash him some more, morons. This forum is a joke with people like Diesel creating 3 threas within half an hour and all are stupid as f***. Unbearable.

Dennis is not getting traded, Diesel. I bet 50 € on that to anyone who wants in.

1. No one disputed the fact that Schröders PER36 numbers are similar to last season, so I have no idea what your point is? Except moving the goalposts every time someone calls your made up shit out. What you convieniently overlook is that these numbers were great for a 22-year old last year and put him in the 6th-man of the year conversation. The fact that he wa able to translate this numbers with higher playtime/responsibility, with more focus on him in terms of opponents gameplanning, against tougher opposition and with higher efficiency (less TOs, better shooting) is a positive. Yet somehow you spin it to be negative. 2. The PER numbers you posted were wrong. Others already called you out on that. So where did you get them from? I am curious. 3. Your point of Dennis being a ball hog and terrible hinges primarily on the fact that he doesn't "feed the post". You convieniently ignore all the stats me (and others before me) showing that he is getting the most post touches of all f***ing players in the whole f***ing league and he is pretty shit converting on these opportunities. You also ignore the fact that he could be an elite roll-man, but doesn't want to do it. And somehow Schröder is to blame for everything although he is already an average passing PG on a shitty shooting team in his first year. You ignore that fact, too. Calling me a nuthugger when all you do is spew BS without any facts to back them up is hilarious. Seriously, I just hope you are trolling on pourpose, because anything else would be pretty sad.

All this BS without any base i nreality. f***ing Diesel even made some obviously wrong PER numbers up. WTF is wrong with that dude? First of all, I think that Howard did well this season. He did what could be expected of him and until a few days ago, I would have complimented his overall attitude, because he did not (publicly) complain – but I have to scrap that part. If he is not satisfied with what he got this season and isn't looking to improve filling out this role, his worth is severely diminished. Now, to the matter at hand. Dwight Howard is 11th in post touches in terms of frequency (excluding Edy Tavares with 1 game and Papagiannis with not enough minutes/plays). He is 33rd in points per possession on post touches. There are only about 40 players that average 2 post touches per game and he is the 7th worst in PPP. This is due to his (at best) average 47% FG%, his high turnover rate and bad free throw shooting. You can also look at Post Touches (i.e. a pass and reception within the paint). Amongst players with at least 20 mpg, Howard leads the league here with 7.0 per game. Amongst the same group, Howard is also 1st in the league with 8.0 Paint Touches (getting the ball within 8 5ft of the basket). In my opinion this clearly shows that he arguably is overused on post-ups and not the other way around. He is essentially one of if not THE player in the league, that is most used as a traditional big man. Now let’s look at him as a Pick&Roll player as the rolling man. Among 107 players that have more than 1 possession of this kind and have played more than 20 games, Howard has the 9th lowest frequency as the roll man with 10.1%. Paul Millsap, for example, is at 23.4% (33rd). Dwight Howard scores 1.18 PPP on these plays, which is 15th among qualified players (Millsap has a paltry 0.86 PPP). Howards FG% of 66% is the 7th best and his TO% 40% lower than on post-ups. There is no way the Hawks should involve Howard in more post-plays. He already is used a ton compared to all other players and he is not very efficient at it. He should be involved more often as the roll-man in P&R plays. But as Budenholzer already publicly said: he has to come out and set screens in the first place (and decent ones) to do that. His scoring would skyrocket. But Dwight doesn’t want that. Let’s look at ball hog Schröder. Among 113 Guards (some players like Antetokounmpo are listed as Guards also) with at least 20 games played and 20 mpg, Schröder is 16th with 57 passes per game. He is 14th in assists (tied with known ball hog Mike Conley), 8th in Secondary Assists (the “hockey assist”), 13th in potential assists and 25th in Asts/TO ratio. Considering the Hawks had the 8th worst 3-point shooting percentage (with the 16th most shots) and were only average on converting 2-point FGs, these numbers seem pretty okay. So if your pont is that a 17th pick in his first year as a starter is only an average passer, you are correct. If you think THAT is the problem, you are being an idiot (once more).

The thing you (and others) don't seem to grasp is that it is not "1st year starter, 23 year old, 17th's pick" Schröders problem if he is the best player on a team and can't carry them to the finals. It says something about the team and who put it together and not about Schröder (or Millsap, for that matter). Blaming (vastly) overperforming players for a teams struggles is idiotic. Dwight Howard was 3rd on the team in the playoffs with a PER of 14.1, 5 of the 9 rotation palyers were below 10. How dare Schröder not play perfect for 48 minutes! You can'expect players to get you back into games without expecting them to make a few mistakes while doing so. But I guess you would rather lose by 20+ points with your best players playing safe and conservative all game than having a fighter's chance to win the game...or prefer Matthew Dellavedova over James Harden, because that dude commits a turnover late in the game sometimes. (keeping in mind that Schröder had the 2nd lowest TO% of all players, the 3rd highest TS% etc.). You can't pick and chose when players miss shots or makes a mistake and say "I'll take the 24 ppg and 7.5 apg on 59% TS% with only a TOV% 0f 7.4 (which is insane), but he also has to hit all important shots and never make a mistake during crucial stretches". This is not how it works.

I am calling it now: Hawks will lose because they get zero respect from the refs. edit: This is without question the biggest travesty I have seen in a long time. HOW IN THE WORLD DOES BEAL NOT GET A TECH? HOW? Plus, Gortat and Morris stepped onto the court. Which should be automatic suspension/ejections.

Query Results Table Criteria Totals Per Game Shooting Rk Player Season Age Tm Lg PTS AST PER G GS MP FG FGA 2P 2PA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB STL BLK TOV PF FG% 2P% 3P% eFG% FT% TS% 1 Chris Paul 2007-08 22 NOH NBA 24.1 11.3 30.7 12 12 40.5 9.3 18.4 8.8 16.7 0.4 1.8 5.2 6.6 1.3 3.6 4.9 2.3 0.2 1.8 3.6 .502 .530 .238 .514 .785 .565 2 Michael Jordan 1988-89 25 CHI NBA 34.8 7.6 29.9 17 17 42.2 11.7 22.9 11.1 20.9 0.6 2.1 10.8 13.5 1.5 5.5 7.0 2.5 0.8 4.0 3.8 .510 .532 .286 .523 .799 .602 3 Tracy McGrady 2000-01 21 ORL NBA 33.8 8.3 26.8 4 4 44.5 12.8 30.8 12.3 28.3 0.5 2.5 7.8 9.5 1.5 5.0 6.5 1.8 1.3 2.0 2.8 .415 .434 .200 .423 .816 .483 4 Oscar Robertson 1961-62 23 CIN NBA 28.8 11.0 25.6 4 46.3 10.5 20.3 10.5 20.3 7.8 9.8 11.0 4.5 .519 .519 .519 .795 .586 5 Russell Westbrook 2012-13 24 OKC NBA 24.0 7.0 25.6 2 2 34.0 8.5 20.5 7.5 16.0 1.0 4.5 6.0 7.0 0.5 6.0 6.5 3.0 0.0 4.0 2.5 .415 .469 .222 .439 .857 .509 6 Michael Jordan 1984-85 21 CHI NBA 29.3 8.5 24.7 4 4 42.8 8.5 19.5 8.3 17.5 0.3 2.0 12.0 14.5 1.8 4.0 5.8 2.8 1.0 3.8 3.8 .436 .471 .125 .442 .828 .565 7 Oscar Robertson 1962-63 24 CIN NBA 31.8 9.0 24.7 12 47.5 10.3 22.0 10.3 22.0 11.1 12.8 13.0 3.4 .470 .470 .470 .864 .574 8 Oscar Robertson 1963-64 25 CIN NBA 29.3 8.4 24.7 10 47.1 9.2 20.2 9.2 20.2 10.9 12.7 8.9 3.0 .455 .455 .455 .858 .568 9 LeBron James 2007-08 23 CLE NBA 28.2 7.6 24.3 13 13 42.5 8.7 21.2 7.3 15.8 1.4 5.4 9.4 12.8 1.2 6.6 7.8 1.8 1.3 4.2 2.5 .411 .463 .257 .444 .731 .525 10 LeBron James 2006-07 22 CLE NBA 25.1 8.0 23.9 20 20 44.7 8.3 20.0 7.3 16.2 1.1 3.8 7.4 9.8 1.3 6.8 8.1 1.7 0.5 3.3 2.0 .416 .448 .280 .442 .755 .516 11 Deron Williams 2009-10 25 UTA NBA 24.3 10.2 23.5 10 10 39.8 6.7 14.9 4.7 9.8 2.0 5.1 8.9 11.1 0.4 2.3 2.7 1.0 0.4 3.0 3.7 .450 .480 .392 .517 .802 .614 12 Tim Hardaway 1990-91 24 GSW NBA 25.2 11.2 22.8 9 9 44.0 10.0 20.6 8.1 15.2 1.9 5.3 3.3 4.2 0.6 3.1 3.7 3.1 0.8 2.8 2.4 .486 .533 .354 .532 .789 .563 13 Isiah Thomas 1984-85 23 DET NBA 24.3 11.2 22.7 9 9 39.4 9.2 18.4 8.6 16.8 0.7 1.7 5.2 6.9 1.2 4.0 5.2 2.1 0.4 3.3 4.3 .500 .510 .400 .518 .758 .567 14 Dennis Schröder 2016-17 23 ATL NBA 25.0 8.0 22.6 3 3 35.0 8.7 19.7 6.3 13.0 2.3 6.7 5.3 6.7 1.0 2.0 3.0 1.0 0.0 2.0 3.3 .441 .487 .350 .500 .800 .553 15 Derrick Rose 2010-11 22 CHI NBA 27.1 7.7 22.5 16 16 40.6 9.3 23.5 7.8 17.2 1.6 6.3 6.9 8.4 1.3 3.1 4.3 1.4 0.7 3.7 2.1 .396 .451 .248 .430 .828 .499 16 Jeff Ruland 1983-84 25 WSB NBA 24.0 7.8 21.2 4 46.8 9.3 17.8 9.3 17.5 0.0 0.3 5.5 6.8 4.0 8.8 12.8 0.5 0.8 4.8 3.8 .521 .529 .000 .521 .815 .579 17 Isiah Thomas 1985-86 24 DET NBA 26.5 12.0 21.1 4 4 40.8 10.3 22.8 10.3 21.5 0.0 1.3 6.0 9.0 2.0 3.5 5.5 2.3 0.8 4.3 4.3 .451 .477 .000 .451 .667 .496 18 Derrick Rose 2009-10 21 CHI NBA 26.8 7.2 19.4 5 5 42.4 11.4 25.0 11.0 23.8 0.4 1.2 3.6 4.4 0.8 2.6 3.4 0.8 0.0 2.6 1.6 .456 .462 .333 .464 .818 .497 19 Tim Hardaway 1991-92 25 GSW NBA 24.5 7.3 16.4 4 4 44.0 8.0 20.0 5.5 12.8 2.5 7.3 6.0 9.3 1.5 2.3 3.8 3.3 0.0 3.5 3.5 .400 .431 .345 .463 .649 .509 Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table Generated 4/23/2017. Players that averaged at least 24/7 under 25 years old in the playoffs. Average point gurads and players...

Anyone home? Suck it!

I was just about to say that. The bench had Schröder/Bazemore/Sefolosha/Scott/Antic who all played well. Compare that to this seasons bench (before Ilyasova and Calderon arrived) and you have only THJr who played well for the 2nd half of the season. But I think it's unwise to dwell on this. Virtually the same team (especially the starting 5) before and after that one season won 38 and 48 games respectively. So the 60-win season was an outlier. If Millsap doesn't get hurt and the Hawks go 6:6 in those 12 games instead of 2:10, they would have won 45 games this year - a good playoff team, but nothing that can contend. Just like before.

Holy shit. First playoff game as a starter against a superior team and an All-NBA PG in Wall. 25 points, 9 Assists on 50% and 60 shooting from the field , 6/6 FTs and only 2 turnovers. And Diesel is talking shit about him ... This is unreal. P.S.: George Hill? What???

All Guards except Dennis sucked. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? This team doesn't have enough fire power to afford THJr and Bazemore going 6/21. Schröder and Millsap are pretty consistently giving them ~40 ppg, but the rest of the team is always a rollercoaster offensively. btw: this game showed why you cannot run your offense through/for Howard. He can't finish against anyone anymore. He has a big body and rebounds well and that's about it. There were so many chances for him to score or at least draw a foul, but Gortat and Co. just needed to contest his shots to make him disappear offensively. Still, he did what he could.

Ugly game, not unexpected for the first game of the playoffs. Too many TOs to win. If Schröder is the best 3-pt shooter and has the least Tos (adjusted for playing time and time of posssession) for the Hawks, they will lose. Like...step up...someone.

Were you on vacation in Trollheim? Can't say I missed you. As for "changing the subject": look at the OPs post. I only see you not providing anything of substance yet again. Go back were you were the last months, we enjoyed the time without you.

As far as I know, Schröder has never turned the ball over in these situations. And it's smart to do. 4-5 more seconds for your offense is huge. It is also a risk for the defender to go for the ball, because if he misses the steal, he is beat and the Hawks have a 5vs4 with Schröder running at the defense at full speed.

I completely agree, but the facts are the facts: Bazemores contract expired before THJrs and THJr before this season was not worthy of an extension. Everyone of course would prefer to have spent the 70 million on THJr as it stands now, but that wasn't possible due to how things happened :) The best case would be to be able to trade Bazemore for something and give THJr a similar contract and hope that he lives up to it. But who would take Baze and for what? Because just giving him away for the sake of it doesn't make any sense either.