kurupt

I get the frustration with Bazemore. But here is the thing: since his horrible start during the first 2 ½ months of the season, he has been as good as he was last season and his 3-point shooting has been really good (about 37-38%). Sure, he still has some bad shooting games, he is not and never will be Klay Thompson, but overall he now is the guy they paid. If he can stay at this level, he is no “bargain”, but he is worth the money with the new CBA coming. If he can stay at this level and THJr can play consistently as he has the last few months, they can give THJr a similar deal and have two decent starters at the 2 spot. With Schröder/Bembry/THJr/Bazemore for the 1 and 2 spot, the Hawks have a decent rotation with a lot of potential playing for the bench units, too. Schröder will have to develop into (at least) a borderline All-Star like Jeff Teague was and is to make it work, but I think he has that in him. And of course you need above average starters at the 4/5 spot like with Millsap and Howard now with Prince developing into a very good player at the 3, too. I get that having THJr + Bazemore doesn't sound sexy, but the fact is that the Hawks (and no other team for that matter) won’t be able to sign “several all-star players on cheap deals”. They have to make the most out of the opportunities they have. Paying Bazemore + THJr 30+ millions a year for two average starting caliber players might sound crazy. But if you look at the market value for comparable SGs with relatively new deals, this is it: Evan Fournier 17 millions per year Courtney Lee 12 millions per year Allen Crabbe 18 millions per year Danny Green 10 millions per year Jordan Clarkson 13 millions per year Jamal Crawford 14 millions per year Wesley Matthews 18 millions per year Now some of these names might sound better than Bazemore (or THJr), but none of them is actually better than those 2 – in fact, most of them are worse. The only problem is that THjr is younger and looks better right now than Bazemore. So do the Hawks want to pay 2 “decent” starters? There are of course better starting Shooting Guards in the league...but also worse ones. We are just accustomed to seeing the flaws of the Hawks players and only notice others when they have good performances.

The 3-point thing is a tricky one. Yes, it is obvious that the Hawks often get scored on by a bunch of 3's. What's not so obvious is that they are good (or even great) at most other defensive things. The reality is that they are not the 2004 Pistons defensively, but still at least a top10 (if not better) defense overall. I think giving up the 3's is actually "part of the plan", because they can't be elite at everything. Part of it is that Howards (and even Millsaps) strength surely is not the closeout on 3-point shooters but other stuff and the defensive scheme and focus highlights their strengths instead. It's a matter of expectations: if your expectation is for the Hawks to be top5 in everything then chances are that you will be upset/disappointed, because 90% of teh teams are not that great ever. And as far as the bad losses are concerned: of course I'd rather have them win more of the "winable" games. But here is the thing: they just aren't a 60-win team, so something has got to give: either you beat up the bad teams regularly to get your wins, but have few impressive wins / close games vs. good competition and fewer "comebacks" or you have a higher variance in your play, but are able to actually challenge the Cavs, the Warriors and get some really unexpected comback wins because of it (which is the case this season in my opinion). For a playoff series I'd much rather have the higher variance team that may take a few games of Cleveland than the one that'll get impressively out of rround 1 just to get swept by the Cavs again.

I really wanted make some posts on various topics over the last few weeks/months, but rarely could narrow it down to just that one topic. So here goes my overall take on the current season J Prologue: After the 60-win 2014/15 season (including a trip to the ECF), the Hawks finished last year with 48 wins and a 2nd round sweep by the hands of the NBA champions Cleveland Cavaliers (who shot 51% from 3-pointrange over the whole series). According to most metrics, the Hawks still where the 2nd or 3rd best team in the East and a Top-6 team for the whole league. (Interesting to see how the individual Hawks performed in that series: http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2016-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-hawks-vs-cavaliers.html) The hawks offseason plan was to trade Teague for a draft pick (ending up with the 12th pick, a very good haul in my opinion) and to add Dwight Howard to play alongside Al Horford and Paul Millsap. They also counted on the continued development of Bazemore (new contract) and THJr to further improve the team. Without going into too much detail, that was a very sound and reasonable battle plan. Unfortunately Horford chose to leave and the Hawks ended up just replacing Horford with Howard and Teague with Schröder (plus Taurean Prince as the draft pick). At best, I would’ve expected this team to do as well as the one before with ~48 wins, purely based on the adjustments needed. They are on track to 44-45 wins, which is a record that I would have expected at the start of the season. To me, the “sky is falling” attitude commonly seen on this board is rooted more in the unrealistic expectations of some people than in reality. This also goes for the assessment of some players. I will split my detailed commentary on the players in several parts (starting) PG, Wings, Bigs and the Bench. Point Guard: Schröder has basically translated his per-36 bench production to his starting job – against better opposition and more game-plan focus on him. He is also doing it more efficiently across the board (TS% / eFG%, TOV%) and almost all advanced stats are also up. He is pretty close to giving the Hawks what Teague gave them over the last 2 years in his first year as a starter and on a slightly worse team. Despite all valid concerns, Schröder is doing as well as you could possibly have hoped for in my opinion – and (hopefully) has even more room to grow. Wings: The main starters this season were Korver/Bazemore/Sefolosha. On major problem was (and is) that none of these guys is a true SF, all are at best tweeners leaning more towards being SGs. This is especially problematic on defense Korver was not good enough anymore to be a starter. His niche was his amazing offensive efficiency and compared to all previous Hawks season, his offensive metrics fell off a cliff this year. The Hawks were distinctively better without him (or at least without him starting), which has never happened before. Whether that was on him declining or him missing Horford offensively and defensively doesn’t matter in the end. To get a first round pick for him was a great deal. Bazemore was the designated starter but had a brutal(!!!) start to the season. He shot like 35% from 2 and 20% from 3 over the first three months, his PER is at 9.4 right now. Part of this is him pressing too much and the starting role may be just too big for him. But I also see him misused. He just is no SF. He can’t defend that position and offensively his length/athleticism isn’t that great anymore when going against guys like Paul George, Durant or LBJ, so his offensive game gets reduced to pure shooting which he is at best average at. He has been better the last few months and I can see him being a serviceable starter at the 2-spot or a good player off the bench on that position if he continues this way. Sefolosha, when healthy, has done what is to be expected of him. I also see him more as a 2-guard than a SF, but defensively he can guard both position very well. Offensively he is limited. The problem is that much like Bazemore, he is a serviceable at best as a starter and also not a very good shooter. Having one wing position with a “slightly below average starter” may be okay for a team aspiring to win 50 games, having two of them is hard. Bigs: Howard is a dominant rebounder and decent rim protector but lacks the “utility value” that Horford had: setting screens, being smart and agile on defense etc. But he is what he is as a player and he has done exactly what the Hawks needed him to do by improving their poor rebounding. Millsap does what Millsap does. He is great and by far the most important player on this team, both as a player and as a leader. The only gripe I have with him this season is that he has had a lot of pretty bad shooting games (sub 35% shooting), which is hard to overcome for this team since their firepower rests on so few shoulders (Schröder, Millsap, THJr basically, the rest is far too inconsistent). Bench: First off the good news: THJr has fully arrived. He is a legit starting caliber 2-guard in this league now. After a so-so start, he has been excellent over the last 3 months. The only reason he is still coming off the bench (and I agree with that) is that the rest of it is so bad and Bazemore so far has been too inconsistent to take his role as the primary scorer and ballhandler off the bench. Putting THJr in the starting lineup for Bazemore would immediately fix most of the wing problems, but leave the bench a hot mess. The rookies seem to not be ready enough and I trust the coaching staff with this decision. They have a good track record with developing Schröder, Bazemore and THJr as backourt players. The main reasons why the bench is so bad is that Delaney is worse than I could’ve ever imagined. He can’t shoot from anywhere, not even his (formerly) famed mid-range game works on the NBA level. It was clear that he was a liability defensively, but since he isn’t athletic enough to be a driving guard, his lack of shooting makes him literally worthless. This is also why THJr has to handle the ball so much for the bench units. Mike Muscala has been decent, but the Hawks also miss the firepower that Mike Scott provided. Much like THJr now, he won the Hawks a few games on his own when he caught fire and the Hawks have no one like that besides THJr anymore. Last year they had Schröder and Scott going ham off the bench. Overall assessment: most of the Hawks players actually perform according to expectations or even outperform them. The most glaring issue is that the 2 most “disappointing” performances came/come from the same position in Korver and Bazemore at the wing. This leaves the Hawks with one good player for 2 starting spots and that player has to come off the bench because backup PG can’t actually play in the NBA. What could be a very, very good starting 5 with Schröder/THJr/Sefolosha/Millsap/Howard is instead a very flawed Schröder/Bazemore/Sefolosha/Millsap/Howard lineup. I still like this teams chances in the playoffs though. There you can shrink your rotations and increase the minutes for your best players which naturally will lead to more “THJr with the starters” minutes. I also like the attitude this team is able to display, they are a lot more competitive and “edgy” than the Teague/Horford-led teams and if it comes to playing good/better opponents that is something you need to have a chance. It may not translate to as many regular season wins this season, but I see more playoff potential in this group than is last years. The ceiling with Howard dominating the boards is much higher than the “we are going to out-finess you” Hawks of last year. Also, going forward, I can see Bazemore stabilizing if they play him exclusively at the 2. He could then take on THJrs role that may be more fitting anyway. THJr seems to be a good starting 2-guard now and I believe that Prince/Bembry + the draft are able to address the remaining wing problems that Hawks have for next season.

How often do we need to discuss Howard not being a good option on offense? All he can reliably and somewhat efficiently do is putbacks, dunks and alley hoops. He is a shit post-up players. And, as was already mentioned several times: Howard is amongst the players with the most post touches in the league already. He is getting pretty much the kind and number of shots he should be getting. As for Millsap: as long as Schröder has a better eFG% and TS% and fewer "off-nights" (4/12 outings and worse) it is absolutely okay for him to take a few more shots. We don't even need to talk about the other options on this team. As for the comparison to Chris Paul: every player is unique. Most players in the league (if not all) are not Chris Paul. ALso, the dude has never been to a Conference Final in his career somwhow despite playing on decent teams and being hailed as a PF god by many. If his style of play is so desirable, how can that be?

Mh?

This has been proven to not be true. Horford could easily be playing on this team right now and the Hawks woulkd be a juggernaut. He did not want to, that was his choice. The plan for this off-season was actually excellent. No one could have anticipated Horford leaving a situation he always wanted (playing alongside a true center and a true contender) and Bazemore and Korver (as a starter) falling off of a f***ing cliff.

Maybe I watched another game, but neither Smart nor IT got anything on Schröder offensively, especially not in the post. His defense was fine (especially considering he got a his 1st foul for not touching the opposing player at all). He just was an absolute non-factor offensively. The problem was actually overhelping on IT in the 1st quarter leading to all open 3's for the Celtics (which they all hit).

A team that takes Millsap and gives up something of worth for him has to be a team that actually hopes to able to resign him. I don't see Denver in that position. Why would Millsap stay on a team that just traded its two best players away for him? Also, in order to stay somewhat competitive this season, especially since it is looking better and better right now, the Hawks need a PF back in a Millsap trade. Else, Muscala would have to start (doable, at least his skill set would complement Howard very well) without someone backing him up (bad). I would like Domantas Sabonis from OKC. He was a great Rebounder in college and is a very good 3-point shooter (good for playing with DH) and only 20 years old. He would form a good young tandem with Muscala. I just don't know how you would make the salaries work. Another option would be to sign Ibaka in the offseason and just get as good a draft pick as you can get for Millsap. Ibaka is not quite as good/versatile as Millsap, but a much better 3-point shooter. He is also a bit younger and will probably only look for ~20 million per year, which would leave the Hawks with some flexibility to upgrade on the wings. The downside is that you only get him after this season and the Hawks would need another PF for this season.

Well, that one guys also keeps insisting that Schröder only plays well against the Mavericks and they both did not see the 2 blatant offensive fouls Deron Williams commited on consecutive posessions on Schröder (one calles, one not). So my guess is that they are talking BS overall :)

Not much to say about this game, I guess. But I have a feeling that was a game the Hawks "liked" to lose last season.

Ewing and Shaq could not create shots for themselves...holy cow, Diesel is reaching new levels of stupidity in his crusade. Our SGs shoot 28% and 31% from 3 and they shoot nearly at the same rate as Schröder (only significantly worse percentage-wise) and he wants them to take more shots...holy cow again. Schröder has the 11th highest assist rate among players that have played more than 150 total minutes (ahead of Rubio, Teague, Rondo, Lowry among otehrs), even though the Hawks miss open shots like no other team. f***ing egomaniac that he is...

This looked a lot like the team that started the season 9-2 and as back then, it was mainly because Howard made his presence felt throughout. Good job, more of this please! (Also: they hit their 3's)

First off, I think the Howard signing is still good in hindsight and he is playing well enough. Some games are better than others, but he generally is doing what he was brought in to do. With that being said, Howard does not get more shot because a) He has nights/quarters/halves where he cannot even be bothered to get into good position against guys like John Henson. If you can't do that, then sorry, you are not getting shots. b) His hands are not very good, sometimes outright terrible. There are so many (good!) fumbled passes and missed dunks/layups. c) He cannot post up and he never could. He used to just overpower people, but that athleticism is gone and so is his scoring out of the post-up. d) He slips way too many screens early on the P&R, which does not give the Guard any separation and his own man often times hasn't even stepped out yet - ruining the play before it really begins. It's just lazy/half-assed a lot of times. We had some posts here outlining that Howard was essentially top5 in the NBA in post touches, post-ups etc. already. That's good enough. And if you wonder why a player like Schröder takes more shots: because he, unlike Dwight, can create them himself. And shooting 45% is actually pretty good for a PG, but that's probably beyond some people in here. The Hawks problem is that they don't have a single starting calibre SG or SF right now and Dennis freaking Schröder is the teams 3rd best 3-point shooter by far.

And then you watch the game and realize that all of Schroders 3's were wide open (he was shooting 40% so far this season) and Kover was hounded by MKG (that guy can defend!) all game and rarely got open at all. Not every team has the Honrets defense and an MKG, but the issue with games like this is that Korver adds nothing more than spacing/shooting. The spacing is only there if the opponent doesn't have a guy like MKG who can do it on his own most of the time. ANd if he does not hit the shots he takes...well...then there is not a lot.

It wasn't a perfect game from the Hawks. Everything and everyone could have been better at something or at some point. And they still won against the reigning Champions! This is why they made the changes in the offseason and it worked: Even when the Cavs made runs and the Hawks had a series of bad plays/possessions, these guys never wavered and never backed down. They were in it to win it from start to finish and (out)matched the Cavs in intensity all game long. There is still so much to improve on, but boy is it fun to not get pushed around by Lebron, Kyrie and Thompson and instead doing some of the pushing and bullying :)

Exactly this. On the play were Dennis "missed" Howard for the 3 second call (which was kinda quick imo) was a bit like that. Dennis saw Dwight, thought about the pass and decided against it, because (at least from his perspective) Dwight did not have his opponent completely sealed. "Old Dennis" would have made that pass and hoped Dwight would get it - potentially commiting a TO. This time he looked for another pass (which wasn't there) and then returned to Dwight, who now had selaed his defender completely. It was just a tad late. I am much more comfortable with the "safe" option here, especially since this will work better the more they play together. Forcing plays, that (you think) aren't there, just leads to turnovers. As for the P&R-plays and "missing" alley-hoops: as long as Dwight always just slips screens and does it as early as he does right now , there won't be a lot of succesful P&Rs with him. Dennis opponent is hardly ever inhibited at all by Dwights "screen" and Howards man does not even have the chance(!) to come out far enough to be beat by Dennis' drive. I thiunk this wil lwork better with time, too.

Also, on this team, not one player takes shit from the opponent. They are all poised (but not overly aggresive/emotional). Horford and Teague would have been punked by the Kings a bit in a game like this, I think. These Hawks can play just as physical and take everything in stride.

First off all, all the changes the Hawks made (acquiring D8, losing Horford, promoting Dennis and trading Teague away) will ultimately be judged by looking at the win-loss column at the end of the season. So far it is looking good. Especially since the Hawks still have a lot of things to improve on. If you beat opponents comfortably without being anywhere near 100% of your potential, that's a damn good sign for things to come. Dennis' defense so far has been very good. The opposing starting PGs have shot 13-33 from the field and averaged 3.3 TOs per game. I would say he won every PG matchup so far, regardless whether he played as well as he could or not. And you can really see that it helps to have a true shot blocker behind aggressive/good wing defenders. I think so far he is doing as well as (arguably even better) you could have expected, to be honest. He has better stats in every single category over the first 3 games than Teague had last season - advanced and traditional stats (except PER (17.9 to 17.3) . And he still has a lot of room to improve, for sure. I mean, what do people expect from him in the first 3 games of his first starting-PG season with a revamped team? Per game: 14 points (45% from the field, 40% from 3, 80% FTs), 6 assists, only 2.3 TOs and a PER of 17.32. And they comfortably won all games. Also, a lot of his missed drives lead to offensive rebounds for Howard/Millsap and quite a few of his potential assists don't count because Howard always gets hacked near the basket. But these plays still lead to points for the Hawks, even if the assist doesn't show up in the boxscore.

The height on his 2 dunks is the most important thing for me. That is peak Dwight athleticism and that alone will guarantee a 20/12/3/3 season for him with a great team around him. If he can add a semi-decent shot from up to 16 feet and shoot 60+% on free throws, we are looking at an MVP candidate. I also have no doubt that he will have 3 more very good years, if he still has that much hops left. I am calling it now: steal of the Free Agency 2016...and yes ,that includes KD to the Warriors. Who the hell was Alcia?!

It seems to me that if the two major signings you did in the offseason cry during the presser, because they are so excited to be with your team, you kinda did the right thing. I think the teams motivation will be absolutely through the roof. Schröder in his 1st year as a starter, Bazemore trying to give back the trust the Hawks continue to give him, Millsap in a contract year, THjr trying to make the next step and obviously Howard - plus the professionals Korver and Sefolosha. The more time goes by, the better my feeling for next season becomes. Especially because outsiders think the Hwaks probably got worse...lol.

I absolutely, 100% agree. He - left money on the table with 5th year - goes to a worse situation in terms of how good his team was/is - goes to a situation that is worse for him personally, because he has to play center there and had Howard to play alongside here. That is no coincidence, he was a goner long ago, for whatever reasons. That also explains his (overall) terrible playoff performances (13 points and 6.5 rebounds per game). I hope this rallyes the team around a motivated Howard. If they can sign a good player with the cap space they have remaining or make a smart trade, the Hawks will be better than last season.

Yes, I agree. They got a quality player in Howard for their cap space which is a huge win, because look at Dallas' situation. Howard also fixes a lot of the problems for Atlanta, even if he is not as dominant as he used to be: elite rebounding, still good rim protection and a finisher inside, who can play with his back to the basket and create open shots for outside players. Even if he is only "decent", that is still a lot better than having Horford at C, just from a team perspective. The Hawks are set at PF with Millsap but can look to further improve the team by either trying to keep AL (trading away Splitter/Scott/THJr) with Millsap or trading either one of them to improve elsewhere. It is even kind of a luxurious positon to be in right now.

I think that price and the length of the contract are very reasonable. Well done!

Except that Teague averaged 15.7 points and 5.9 assists in 28.5 minutes per game. Dem nimbers are hard...

Holy crap, you're such a WONDERFUL PERSON THAT I JUST HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH.