RandomFan

Rebounds are just not as important as they used to be. It varies from team to team how important they are. But for our style of play, they rank very low. We lose games when we shoot poorly - that's pretty much it. We give up inflated rebounds in those games because the other team obviously gets more chances at a rebound when we miss more frequently.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2015/02/17/hawks-coach-mike-budenholzer/ thats the direct link to the interview, with a bit of a writeup also.

Agree. And if it's Webber's group, we're all screwed. He's going to be the guy to come in and try to fix what ain't broken.

Rebounding, ah yes. You're talking about the least important correlational major statistic towards winning games. Let me say that again for emphasis since I guess a lot of people still don't realize this: Rebounding is the least valuable statistic that determines wins and losses. I would think everyone would be well aware of that after it has been talked about to death for the last week here. Let me also say it again, that we ignore offensive rebounds in order to get back on defense, which obviously lowers our total rebounds per game when comparing us to other teams. When you only factor in defensive rebounds, we are around 11th in the NBA last time I checked. Yes, we could be better rebounding the ball on the defensive end. Bud is constantly talking about this. I even heard him on 92.9 today talking about it. They were asking him about the rebounding issue and a possible need for another big. Bud said once again, emphatically, that he really likes the bigs we have and would go to battle with these guys every day of the week. You could tell Bud is getting sick of this question because he really stressed how happy he is with the guys we have. He also said that the way our team plays schematically that rebounding has to be a total team effort; and that it is something that we continue to work on and try to improve on (like he says about everything). I guess I'm just going to have to keep saying it, but what we gain from the bigs that we currently have more than outweighs what we lose in rim protection and rebounding. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about this concept? We've got the best record we've ever had at this point in the season...seems to me what we are doing is working pretty darn well!

Even if we had a "rim protector" I highly doubt that would ever change under Bud. Darvin Ham: To me, the defensive element of getting back and getting our activity and energy there is crucial. In my opinion, the rim protector thing is a little overrated. As long as you’re moving and doing your work early, we’re able to compensate. We have a systematic defense where if a guy gets broken down from the perimeter, there’s going to be a guy out to help there. And when that guy knows he’s going to have help behind him, he can come early and get into a good position. A charge is just as good as a blocked shot. Or verticality and protecting the net is just as good as a blocked shot. When that guy comes to help, that guy knows there’s someone else getting back to take his man off the glass. And then that guy back knows there’s someone else in help position to support if we have to close out on a perimeter shot. Systematically, our guys have the utmost confidence. Coach Bud has done a great job hitting home and establishing our defensive system with practice and film. You look at the rim protector thing, some of these teams with these quote-unquote ‘rim protectors’ are the teams giving up the most points in the paint just because they’re relying on that one guy to stop whoever’s driving in there. We don’t want to be like that. We want to score like a team and defend like a team. If you look at it, it’s worked out pretty well up to this point. http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/02/13/eisenberg-how-do-these-hawks-compare-with-the-2004-pistons/

OK, let’s try to get this message to reach home another way then. Whether you agree with Coach Bud or not, do you admit that he believes we don't need another big man? I mean, he's the one that said this after trading Payne: “The reality (of the trade is) the depth of our bigs and having multiple young bigs that we feel strongly about and managing how those young bigs can have opportunities and emerge,” Budenholzer said. Payne was traded because we don't have time to play all the Bigs we currently have that need playing time. Does that sound to you like a man who thinks we need another big man? Whether or not you agree with that assessment is irrelevant - it doesn't matter. What matters is that you have to actually acknowledge Bud does not think we need another big man. If you don't accept that statement, you're pretty much calling Bud a liar? Once you come to the conclusion that the man in charge of adding players to this team feels that way, then the conversation for adding a big man is for all intents and purposes over. We have Brand and Moose that would be getting playing time instead of Pero if Bud actually believed that Pero wasn't getting the job done. Obviously since Pero is still playing, Coach doesn't feel that way. I'm sorry that you don't agree, but I think you'll reduce your stress level if you allow yourself to admit that the guy who knows way more about basketball than either of us feels like Pero brings something to the floor that he wants out there.

Then take it up with Coach Bud. He's the one that loves Pero.

Why don't we just end this thread with the reminder that Bud just said the reason he traded Payne was because there already weren't enough minutes to go around for the bigs we have. We're not adding another to the mix; not unless you think Bud was just lying and it was all because Payne just sucks (not likely). I can't see that changing unless it's a situation just too good to be true and we simply can't pass it up. That's not Amare, BTW. If we add someone it's likely going to be a wing, like Horford said we need.

Yeah, but the thing you fail to realize is that while Moose or anyone else can come in and hoist a brick, that's not all that Pero does for us. The things you so easily discount, setting screens, intagibles (those things you didn't want to hear about) as well as passing, and outstanding defense are what makes him more valuable than just some other guy that might shoot better than him. You seem to be a young fan that has no idea what it actually takes to win games, as opposed to just looking flashy and putting up good stats. Unfortunately, you're not the only one around here that doesn't understand the nuances of winning basketball. But fortunately for us, Coach Bud isn't one of those people. I think I'll roll with Bud on this one if thats OK with you.

I can haz statue??

And still be sitting there cockblocking Ferry's possible return.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/02/celtics_could_learn_from_atlanta_s_team_dynamic This is a good article that partly focuses on something we don't talk enough about when considering adding new potential players to our roster: making quick decisions and quick reads. Most of this, if not all, is stuff we've all heard over and over again. But I thought the emphasis on not only good decisions with the ball, but quick-good decisions with the ball was worth talking about more. This made me think of another potential reason for the Payne trade. It makes me think that one of these possibilites are probably accurate: either Payne demonstrated that he might not ever "get" Buds system and be good enough on those areas; or he was so much farther behind Muscala in these areas (and maybe even what they've seen from Tavares so far) that he was likely never going to move past those guys for playing time. The people that keep complaining about Pero, obviously this is part of his game that Bud must appreciate that goes beyond the traditional stats that people see. I like how Bud mentioned Baze and Thabo both as still a work in progress. You would assume Baze would fall in this category since he's so young and inexperienced. But that an older vet like Thabo is still showing room form improvement there is nice.

Speaking about that, I don't know if anyone else saw this posted 2 days ago about Millsap: Sounds like there wont be much of a (hometeam/good team) discount from Millsap that many of us were hoping for. Of course, this could all just be posturing on his part to make sure the Hawks don't lowball him and he gets a respectable offer. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I love me some Millsap and want him back here; but if he's going to be asking for top dollar, then I might be inclined to throw a max contract at Marc Gasol first just to see if we could lure him here. He's one of the very few bigs that could play in our defensive scheme and still do what we like on offense, and at a true 7 feet tall. I still hope things work out with Millsap though - you don't want to fix what's not broken unless you have no choice.

Hindsight is 20/20 yaya, but I can't help but feel a little turrible that we picked Nogueria over Rudy Gobert after watching that game. Would have been a very nice backup C to develop. Oh well, at least Edy Tavares has been favorably compared to Gobert. It's gonna be nice when we get him over here next year after Brand hangs it up. EDIT - and Wiggins wins MVP over Gobert? No...just no.

Not really sure what you are getting at. Since the "front office" is all people that Ferry brought in since he's been here, excluding Koonin as Team President. The assistant GM Wilcox is a Ferry guy who is fully invested in the system that Ferry has brought in. That would most likely be who Bud would have working with him hand in hand, with how Bud and Ferry worked hand in hand previously. You would be losing one person from the current structure. Granted, it's the key guy who put all this structure in place to begin with. But lets not act like we couldn't recover from losing one guy when we have a great assett in Coach Bud who knows what he's doing too. I think you might be referring more to ownership, not front office. And yes, ownership is a clown car right now. What makes you think they can be any more terrible than they've ever been? The front office isn't going to make the call on Ferry, the new owner(s) will. Coach Bud and Wilcox will most likely be fine if Ferry doesn't return. I'm not sure why you think otherwise.

There are two statements of fact in your sentence. I think what some peope might be having trouble with is that there are those of us that agree with one of those statements, but aren't convinced regarding the other statement. Personally, I agree that Ferry did an absolute fantastic job as our GM. Anyone that disputes that should probably have their head examined. But saying we will be much worse off from this point forward, I'm less inclined to agree with that statement. As I mentioned in a long post a few pages back, there are reasons that it will "maybe" not be the best thing for Ferry to be here anymore. And I emphasize the operative word "maybe." I think it's 50/50 right now if our future would be worse or better without Danny. Obviously he's done tremendous things. Who knows if someone else could have done what he's done, and who cares. The fact of the matter is that HE DID IT. And we should always be very appreciative for that. But the fact is past success does not guarantee future success. And the other side of that coin is the absence of the person responsible for that past success does not guarantee future failure. Danny did a great job, but I am confident enough in Coach Bud and the things he's learned from Pop and Buford over the years to keep going this good thing that Ferry got us started towards. The bottom line for some of us, like me, are that we'll be comfortable if Ferry is welcomed back, OR also if he isn't and Bud is given the reigns of this team permanently. I don't see it as alarmingly detrimental to the team if Ferry is never allowed to return, while concurrently also holding his accomplishments here in very high regard. We are in good shape for the future if Ferry or Bud are in charge, and I firmly believe that.

Draco Malfoy, is that you?

We have to remember when we drafted Payne, at the time Scott and Brand were unsigned and he was viewed as possible insurance as depth at PF/C; obviously this was after Saric was picked who from all accounts the Hawks were really targeting. So while in hindsight it looks like a wasted pick, at the time it was a fallback option in case they weren't able to keep Scott and/or Brand. And also at that time they had no idea how well Muscala was going to keep developing, nor that they would be albe to get a developmental guy in Tavares later in the draft. Regarding Kanter, the knock on his has always been a lack of defense. I'm pretty sure that rules him out for a Bud coached team as far as being an "upgrade" on anything we currently have.

Hrmm, this seems pertinent to the discussion at hand: it's an interview with one of our bench coaches Darvin Ham. I'm only clipping out the relevant parts, but it's a good overall interview about how the Hawks compare to that 2004 Pistons team that Ham was a member of. http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/02/13/eisenberg-how-do-these-hawks-compare-with-the-2004-pistons/

Maybe. But how brilliant was it for him to include a right to pick swap? At the time, everyone thought it was silly since obviously Brooklyn was going to be a great team and ATL was never going to finish ahead of them in the standing, right? Everyone just assumed this was a pick-swap we would never have a chance at using. Well, obviously Ferry knew what he was doing there.

** I originally posted this in the Webber thread, but seems more appropriate here. ** The more I've thought about this, the less optimistic I am that Ferry will be back with the Hawks. It's not so much one thing, but an accumulation of factors. Let me list them: 1) Obviously we start with the racial comment itself. Most will be able to forgive and move on, and most have; but like many others have said already, some sponsors, some local community leaders, and some athletes may never be able to see past it, or would simply choose to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. 2) I forget the article I read this in, perhaps the Aldridge piece recently, but apparently although Ferry is widely respected for his acumen around the league, he also has a reputation of being quite an elitist jerkoff - and what I mean by that is not necessarily disrespectful to others, but just not overly cordial. He's to the point, can be short with people, thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, and is focused on the task at hand. These can be admirable qualities, of course. But then I get to thinking about two people in our organization which leads me to point 3 and 4. 3) Nique - we all know Nique is no fan of Ferry. And it mainly stems from Ferry's reluctance to honor Nique with the soon to be unveiled statue. I think most of us could care less about this statue, but it speaks volumes about Ferry and why I think he might not have a future in this organization. It's a big deal to Nique. Ferry thought it was a silly idea and pretty much said it wouldn't be happening on his watch. This is another of the reasons the GearonCancer is no fan of Ferry. Nique is a big part of the Hawks brand, and I'm not sure if Nique would ever be cool with Ferry again - as evidenced by his recent comments. 4) Koonin - You'll remember Koonin was hired right before the fallout from the Ferry and Levenson comments. He didn't really get a chance to work with Ferry that long, didn't build much of a personal relationship with him, and has little reason to be in his corner: especially since Koonin said he abhorred the comments when he learned of them. But I think the bigger problem is that Koonin seems fairly opposite of Ferry in the manner he would like to see the Hawks do business. One of Koonin's first orders of business was to get the Nique statue approved and implemented. Koonin is a marketing guy - he wants to be the opposite of the elitist-jerkoff. He wants to be engaging with everyone, reach out to everyone, sell not only tickets but also the entire Hawks brand and make it a fun fan-friendly experience. We've seen how open and awesome Koonin is in trying to expand the fan base; it's kind of the opposite of Ferry who would seem to prefer keeping his head down and simply focusing on doing an awesome job building the team while letting the rest take care of itself. I have nothing but speculation here, but I suspect Koonin and Ferry, while not an impossible fit is simply not an "ideal" fit. 5) Coach Bud - as several others have pointed out, this coming offseason will likely be a contract extension period for Bud. As an assistant coach with no head coaching experience, nobody was going to hire him as a team president and head coach combined. You only get that type of job after you earn it. But Bud is now arguably positioned to ask for that if he wants it during this next contract negotiation. He and Ferry are friends, Ferry brought him here after all. And if there is a way for Ferry to come back I'm almost positive Bud would be very happy to have that happen. But if things look too complicated for that to happen, then giving Bud control over the team is not only the most likely thing that would happen, it's also the most logical. For one thing, if Ferry is gone then I doubt we would be able to retain Bud here if we bring in some other GM and put him over Bud. If Bud knows the guy and approves it, that might be possible. But I'm not sure who that candidate would be - and it would definitely have to be someone from and Spurs since those are the only people Bud would have enough experience with. But consider this - Pop still talks regularly with Bud. Pop is in charge of basketball operations in San Antonio, while R.C. Buford is the GM handling those duties. But Buford reports to Pop, not the other way around. Buford handles all the GM duties freeing up Pop to coach. But Buford is doing so according to Pop's master plan, and Pop has the final say on all decisions. This is pretty much the setup we have right now with Coach Bud and our Assistant GM Wilcox, albeit in a temporary capacity while we wait to find out what happens with Ferry. Koonin was apparently so impressed with Coach Bud's knowledge of the salary cap and player evaluation that he said it was a no-brainer to put Bud in temporary charge while Ferry is on leave. If Ferry is gone for good, one would assume Koonin would make this temporary arrangement permanent by making Bud in charge of the team, and promoting Wilcox to GM who would answer to Bud. Especially since you know Pop will be in Bud's ear telling him to ask for exactly that to happen during the upcoming contract extension negotiations coming up. And I would be completely fine with that arrangement. I greatly appreciate what Ferry has done for the Hawks. He magically dumped the worst contract in the NBA, got rid of another bad one in Williams, let Brick Smith walk, somehow convinced Coach Bud to join him here even amongst our travesty of an ownership situation, brought in the right type of players, and who knows what else. If he really is done with the Hawks, I think it is safe to say he did an amazing job in the short time he was our GM. But after saying that, I think we would be in completely competent hands if we turned the show over to Coach Bud: especially now that a lot of the heavy lifting has already been accomplished.

The more I've thought about this, the less optimistic I am that Ferry will be back with the Hawks. It's not so much one thing, but an accumulation of factors. Let me list them: 1) Obviously we start with the racial comment itself. Most will be able to forgive and move on, and most have; but like many others have said already, some sponsors, some local community leaders, and some athletes may never be able to see past it, or would simply choose to avoid a potentially uncomfortable situation. 2) I forget the article I read this in, perhaps the Aldridge piece recently, but apparently although Ferry is widely respected for his acumen around the league, he also has a reputation of being quite an elitist jerkoff - and what I mean by that is not necessarily disrespectful to others, but just not overly cordial. He's to the point, can be short with people, thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, and is focused on the task at hand. These can be admirable qualities, of course. But then I get to thinking about two people in our organization which leads me to point 3 and 4. 3) Nique - we all know Nique is no fan of Ferry. And it mainly stems from Ferry's reluctance to honor Nique with the soon to be unveiled statue. I think most of us could care less about this statue, but it speaks volumes about Ferry and why I think he might not have a future in this organization. It's a big deal to Nique. Ferry thought it was a silly idea and pretty much said it wouldn't be happening on his watch. This is another of the reasons the GearonCancer is no fan of Ferry. Nique is a big part of the Hawks brand, and I'm not sure if Nique would ever be cool with Ferry again - as evidenced by his recent comments. 4) Koonin - You'll remember Koonin was hired right before the fallout from the Ferry and Levenson comments. He didn't really get a chance to work with Ferry that long, didn't build much of a personal relationship with him, and has little reason to be in his corner: especially since Koonin said he abhorred the comments when he learned of them. But I think the bigger problem is that Koonin seems fairly opposite of Ferry in the manner he would like to see the Hawks do business. One of Koonin's first orders of business was to get the Nique statue approved and implemented. Koonin is a marketing guy - he wants to be the opposite of the elitist-jerkoff. He wants to be engaging with everyone, reach out to everyone, sell not only tickets but also the entire Hawks brand and make it a fun fan-friendly experience. We've seen how open and awesome Koonin is in trying to expand the fan base; it's kind of the opposite of Ferry who would seem to prefer keeping his head down and simply focusing on doing an awesome job building the team while letting the rest take care of itself. I have nothing but speculation here, but I suspect Koonin and Ferry, while not an impossible fit is simply not an "ideal" fit. 5) Coach Bud - as several others have pointed out, this coming offseason will likely be a contract extension period for Bud. As an assistant coach with no head coaching experience, nobody was going to hire him as a team president and head coach combined. You only get that type of job after you earn it. But Bud is now arguably positioned to ask for that if he wants it during this next contract negotiation. He and Ferry are friends, Ferry brought him here after all. And if there is a way for Ferry to come back I'm almost positive Bud would be very happy to have that happen. But if things look too complicated for that to happen, then giving Bud control over the team is not only the most likely thing that would happen, it's also the most logical. For one thing, if Ferry is gone then I doubt we would be able to retain Bud here if we bring in some other GM and put him over Bud. If Bud knows the guy and approves it, that might be possible. But I'm not sure who that candidate would be - and it would definitely have to be someone from and Spurs since those are the only people Bud would have enough experience with. But consider this - Pop still talks regularly with Bud. Pop is in charge of basketball operations in San Antonio, while R.C. Buford is the GM handling those duties. But Buford reports to Pop, not the other way around. Buford handles all the GM duties freeing up Pop to coach. But Buford is doing so according to Pop's master plan, and Pop has the final say on all decisions. This is pretty much the setup we have right now with Coach Bud and our Assistant GM Wilcox, albeit in a temporary capacity while we wait to find out what happens with Ferry. Koonin was apparently so impressed with Coach Bud's knowledge of the salary cap and player evaluation that he said it was a no-brainer to put Bud in temporary charge while Ferry is on leave. If Ferry is gone for good, one would assume Koonin would make this temporary arrangement permanent by making Bud in charge of the team, and promoting Wilcox to GM who would answer to Bud. Especially since you know Pop will be in Bud's ear telling him to ask for exactly that to happen during the upcoming contract extension negotiations coming up. And I would be completely fine with that arrangement. I greatly appreciate what Ferry has done for the Hawks. He magically dumped the worst contract in the NBA, got rid of another bad one in Williams, let Brick Smith walk, somehow convinced Coach Bud to join him here even amongst our travesty of an ownership situation, brought in the right type of players, and who knows what else. If he really is done with the Hawks, I think it is safe to say he did an amazing job in the short time he was our GM. But after saying that, I think we would be in completely competent hands if we turned the show over to Coach Bud: especially now that a lot of the heavy lifting has already been accomplished.

Here is what's gonna happen - the first substitutions will be all four Hawks subbed in with Lebron staying on at SF. That way Lebron will see what's it like to get to play with a real team of people that play together. Then Lebron will go home to Cleveland and kick Irving and Love in the backside and ask why they are such terrible teammates, lol.

Because Korver can't play all 48 minutes of every game. Currently when Korver is off the floor, our Offensive efficiency rating drops over 15 points, which is the largest amount of any of our starters. He'd primarily not play with Korver, but be his direct backup. Obviously with Thabo's injury Ray would probably play more minutes than normal until Thabo's return. For the playoff's it would be back to a direct backup role. Also in late game substitutions situations you might see Korver and Allen at the same time for offense, and then DMC, Thabo, or Baze subbed back in when on defense.

Even at worst, it's two 2nd round picks. I'm not the biggest Mike Scott fan, but are you telling me he's essentially useless? And there would be two picks. Again, 2 years of Payne riding our bench and collecting a check for probably never playing vs either a future 1st or two 2nds? It's a no brainer to me. I think some are just having a hard time getting over the fact we didn't hit on that pick in the first place. It happens. Now we have to focus on recouping some value while we still can.