TheNorthCydeRises

LOL . . and what's worse about what Diesel said, is that he acts like all of those Chicago guys are going to be commanding 7 - 8 million dollar deals when they become RFA's in the future. That's like telling us how are we going to re-sign Smoove, Chill, Marvin, and Salim when their contracts expire? Chicago could re-sign ALL of those guys to whatever amount they wanted, because they own every one of those player's Bird Rights. And Chicago is a market in which paying the Luxury Tax wouldn't be that crippling, if they could put a winner out on the floor. Chicago sold out their arena even when the Bulls were terrible, so the money is always going to be there. The Bulls could run their payroll up to 90 million if they wanted to, if those guys were vital to winning championships. They just wouldn't be able to add free agents to the mix without a trade. But a team could very easily be the Dallas Mavericks, if they're willing to trade off their young talent, for older, pricier vets.

Diaw's stats last night: 32 minutes 5 points ( 2 - 10 FG ) 5 rebounds 3 assists 4 turnovers LOL @ all of this Diaw hype. Get a clue people.

If Delk can't even break into the rotation here, what team in their right mind would deal anything for him? Even a 2nd round pick is more valuable than Delk. Right now, even Ivey is more of a tradeable commodity than Delk. Hawks fans need to understand that we're in a "Player Development" mode, not necessarily in a "put the best players out on the floor" mode. We're not making a playoff push with this team. It's all about giving some of our young guys valuable playing time. And it's not like we're not trying to win. But it's more important that we win with the youngsters, than with a veteran like Delk.

Trace hits it right on the money. People act like Delk is the difference in us winning and losing some of these close games. I'd much rather see Salim go through his growing pains as a rookie, than to play Delk spot minutes. I mean, what would that achieve on a team in which Delk is OBVIOUSLY not part of the future plan?

Quote: Pauls gone. Let it go. They aren't going to get him or anyone like him. Best quote of the thread. This team loses too many close games to think that we're light years away from having a good squad here. All we need is a SOLID PG to run the show. We don't necessarily need a star PG here.

After tonight's game, is there ANY DOUBT on which franchise is worse off in the NBA?

You're right about the Miles aspect. You can't play Al in front of Miles or Randolph, so you'd have to bring him off the bench, and hope Randolph could play 5 - 10 minutes a game at center against smaller frontlines. Blake is definitely playing well these days, making them have 3 quality PGs. It sure would be nice to have at least one of those guys in some sort of deal with AL.

Only a team desperate for a SF is going to give us close to equal value for Al. At this point, I'm willing to trade Al for "need" players who collectively may have less talent than Al. Portland, to me, is the obvious trade partner. But we're going to have to take a player off of their hands that may be counterprodutive to our "youth movement" in the short term, in order to get the player that we really want . . Jarett Jack. Right now, the Blazers have 3 young PGs that they play every night. ( Telfair, Blake, and Jack ). That number could be 4, if you add the multiple skills that Juan Dixon brings to the table ( side note: hopefully Salim will be as good as this guy next year ) If we deal with Portland, we HAVE to get one of the PGs. Telfair is probably off-limits. So that leaves either Blake or Jack. Blake is more of the floor leader/shooter while Jack is more of a floor leader/defender. In either case, one of these guys will still split time with Lue, with Ivey being completely out of the loop. But we can't trade Al for one of the PGs solely. We'd have to take someone else. And no, the Blazers aren't dealing Pryz, which would be the obvious choice in a 2 for 1 deal. So here would have to be the deal. Jarret Jack and Ruben Patterson . .. for Al ( this could also be executed in a Sign & trade, but only if Portland thought that they could get Al at a relatively cheap price ( 7 - 8.5 million per ) . . signing Al to a deal would almost mean that they're willing to deal Miles to somebody, for a high scoring 2-guard ) I can see the board now, frowning up their faces. But that's why you have to go deeper into the deal. Like I said, getting equal value for Al is probably out the window. So we may as well try to get a player that can address an immeadiate need. A young player that can play perimeter defense and run the team on offense. Jack could be that guy that could solidify the defense on the perimeter, without completely killing us on offense. You wouldn't ask him to be a big time producer offensively, just a timely one. 8 - 10 points and 5 - 6 assists would be ideal for Jack on the Hawks next year, with a guy like Lue providing the offensive punch off the bench. The kicker in this deal, is Ruben Patterson. I'm sure the Blazers would love to move him for Harrington because of two things. (1) It would give the Blazers a guy who can score inside and out in Harrington, seeing that Ruben is primarily a slasher. (2) He's probably worn out his welcome there anyway and probably would jump at the chance at acquiring an expiring contract like Harrington's So what's in it for the Hawks? Patterson is kind of what we need at the SF position. A guy who can go to the hole, score, and play defense. At 6-5, you could even match him up against the opposing team's 2 or 3. But there is always this with Patterson . . his attitude. Some may not want a guy with a chip on his shoulder to be on the team. I say that it may very well be what this team needs. And one more thing about Patterson. If his stay in ATL the rest of the year doesn't go like he wants it, he has a player option in his contract for the 06 - 07 campaign. So if he decided to test the FA market, instead of opting to collect the 6.8 million he's due next year, then it wouldn't be a major loss for the Hawks. Portland's lineup if the trade went down: C - Pryz F - Randolph F - Miles G - Dixon G - Telfair 6th man - Harrington ( who would easily get 30 + minutes a game with this team, and could very well be in at the end of games. There would even be scenarios in the game in which this lineup would be used: C - Randolph F - Harrington F - MIles G - Dixon G - Blake/Telfair ) Atlanta's lineup: C - Pachulia F - J. Smith F - Patterson G - Johnson G - Jack Jack's presence would eliminate the need to start Ivey at the beginning of games. In fact, Ivey would be completely out of the loop and should NEVER play if the deal went down. Patterson would give us that much needed slasher on this team that can get to the hole. And with his defensive abilities, he could make the Hawks perimeter defense much better in a JJ/Jack/Patterson lineup. And in this lineup, JJ would get the chance to play completely off the ball and do what he does best . . shoot the jumper. Lineup combinations: C - ZaZa F - Williams F - Patterson G - Stoudamire G - Jack C - J. Smith F - Williams F - Patterson G - Johnson G - Lue C - ZaZa F - Williams F - Childress G - Patterson G - Johnson With the loss of Al and the acquisition of Jack and Patterson, Smoove would have to play the 5 a little bit more than what he does now. More importantly, it would open up playing time for Marvin. So basically you'd add about 5 more minutes for Marvin, reduce the floor time of Lue and Stoudamire by about 10 - 15 minutes collectively, and give Patterson a chance to play 25 - 30 minutes a game. ( NOTE: Patterson currently leads the Blazers in FT attempted ( 174 ) , and shoots 81% from the FT line. ) Plus, we'd still have MORE THAN ENOUGH money to make a run at a FA PF or C and still take one in the draft. Hawks 06 - 07 lineup if Patterson stays: C - Aldridge ( if we get lucky in the draft ) F - J. Smith F - Williams G - Johnson G - Jack Bench G - Lue G - Salim F - Childress F - Patterson F/C - ZaZa F/C - Free Agent G - Donta Smith/Free Agent

Hawk roster: Harrington - backup on the Indiana teams that made it to the ECF and the NBA Finals J. Johnson - key cog in Phoenix's WCF team last year. It's routinely said that he was the 4th option in the offense, but Phoenix looked more to Johnson down the stretch of games, than they did to Marion, because Johnson could create his own shot and knock down the 3-ball with better accuracy. Pachulia - played in Milwaukee when they were bad/mediocre Smith - high schooler Childress - Pac-10 Player of the Year and the leader of a Stanford squad that spent most of the year as the #1 team in the country Stoudamire - Pac-10 Player of the Year and the leader of an Arizona squad that should've beaten #1 Illinois. They flat out choked. Willaims - member of the 2005 NCAA Champion N. Carolina Tar Heels Ivey - backcourt running mate of T.J. Ford, when Texas made their run to the Final Four. Lue - has an NBA Championship ring with the Lakers, although he was a sparingly used backup. Whether these guys were winners or not has NOTHING to do with why we struggle. Experience is the reason why we struggle. I heard the Bulls announcers say that we reminded them of the Bulls 2 - 3 years ago, when they were such a young team. That Bulls team didn't lose 59 games in 03 - 04 because the team didn't have any "winners" on it. They lost because they were such a young team. And the two veterans they had on that team ( Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall ), were pretty much supressing the younger talent from developing . . . . ( sound familiar? ) They get rid of Rose and Marshall early in that year and struggle to win games the rest of the year. But key guys to their future like Chandler, Hinrich, Curry, and at the time, Jamal Crawford, were able to get an abundance of playing time. The Bulls tweak their lineup one more time, trading Crawford for Othella Harrington and fillers, and bring in rookies Duhon, Deng, Gordon, and an undrafted Andres Nocioni. Remember, that team started out as bad as we did this year. And people were questioning if Scott Skiles was the right man for the job. Then they start to click in December. Then they win 13 out of 16 in January . . and never looked back. Even with all of the deficiencies on this team, they've managed to be competitive in just about every game in which the competition was pretty equal to us. They've even pulled out wins agains teams vs winning records (6). The only thing that should be questioned abou this team is: (1) what is BK waiting on to deal Harrington, and (2) when will Woodson be fired in favor of somebody else. This team seems as if it will win 20 - 25 games this year. Win #12 should come tonight. Every Hawk fan should already know that it wasn't going to be this year that we made the leap, it would be next year, with the young guys having one and two full seasons under their belts.

Johnny, what everybody is trying to say is that SKITA IS GARBAGE. No sense in trading a top 30 - 38th pick in the draft, for garbage. Skita isn't even better than Donta.

And we know that Wallace is probably 95% staying in Detroit. And that chance probably goes to 99% when talking about us. But that wasn't part of what you were originally talking about. You were acting like we couldn't bring ANYBODY in here that would justify Al staying. If we could get that big time defensive and rebounding center, I'd be all for Al staying for 3 - 4 more years. Why? Because we'd still have Marvin locked in for that amount of time. But I still agree with you in that our best option is to deal Al, and try to find some backup defensive minded players to replace him . . and hope everybody else can replace what Al does offensively, which I think they can.

I have to agree with Diesel 100% on THIS topic. What's lost in this argument, is that Boston used to KILL Detroit on the interior, when the Pistons couldn't beat them. The Pistons a good interior defensive team? NO way. They were a team that used to hack and kill people on the interior, especially the slasher type forwards and guards. This current Detroit team is far and away a better defensive squad than the "Bad Boys". The Bad Boys played defense via intimidation. The Bad Boys did give the Bulls the blueprint on how to play intimidation style defense, and team defense. And when push came to shove, Phil Jackson would always have his "3 headed monster" at center, do the hacking to slow the game down. Name a center that could change the Hawks fortune on the interior? That's easy. Ben Wallace. What if Ben loved Detroit, but they low-balled him in the offseason with their offer? And what if the Hawks came out again with guns blazing, and offered Ben a HUGE contract? That would change EVERYTHING here. When I say a HUGE contract, I'm talking about the Hawks offering Ben a 4 year - 50 million dollar deal. And say that we could re-sign Al for 4 years at 32 million. You're talking about a lineup like this: PG - Lue ( or draft pick ) . . or even an improved Salim G - JJ F - Harrington PF - Smoove C - Wallace You're trying to tell me that THIS lineup wouldn't be extremely improved over what we have now defensively and with interior defense? And here's something else to consider. With that lineup, you'd have to assume that Wallace would have a tremendous defensive influence on Smoove, possibly making him an even better player. And a more aggressive player on defense, and especially on the boards. And with Harrington, you're now looking at a situation in which he would only have to work more on his perimeter defense, instead of both perimeter and post defense. Even with Lue, when his man blows by him, he'd now have to worry about Smoove AND Wallace in the paint. With ZaZa relegated to the bench, and with Chill, Marvin and Salim providing the firepower off of it, the Hawks would instantly be a playoff team next year.

JJ will reach that Michael Redd / Paul Pierce level when we get a PG. As far as the price for JJ goes, we really don't know what that price is yet. Players like him do get the monetary max contracts all the time. He's a versatile enough player to warrant a deal like that. I mean, even Jalen Rose got a big contract once upon a time, and JJ is already better than Rose in his prime. The one thing that JJ needs to work on, is his ability to draw fouls. And the only way to do that is to go hard to the rim. Even when he doesn't go hard to the rim, at least fake people into jumping, and then draw the foul that way. LeBron was a master in getting to the line tonight ( even if some of those calls were ticky-tacky calls ). He knows that when the jumper isn't falling, he can always take it to the hole and try to draw contact to get points. The Hawks as a whole are a jump shot settling team. And it kills us sometimes.,

Quote: Since Knight sees Marvin as a 20PPG scorer they need to develop him more than Josh Smith. Marvin was the second pick in the NBA draft so you got to develop him....Smoove is and always will be a role player, but you expect Marvin to be atleast an allstar so he needs to be in there. But the point is that you can't just leave Smoove out of a game in place of Marvin . . especially if ZaZa isn't on the floor either. Who are you going to play at center? Harrington? People just need to start stepping up on a nightly basis on this team. You guys do realize that we only made 3 field goals in the 4th quarter, right?

Nique's game log in the 1993 - 94 season as a Hawk: ( I think FEB 20 was the trade deadline that year. So anything before FEB 20th, he was in ATL ) http://databasebasketball.com/players/play...ilkid=WILKIDO01 LOL @ he wasn't that good. Ish, if anything, he was inconsistent. Some nights he was VERY GOOD. Other nights, he was a mere mortal. LOL . . and look at the FT attempts. JJ and Al barely get to the line that much COMBINED.

Quote: When Nique was traded it was the end of the line. The Hawks weren't going anywhere and it was time for some new blood. BTW, Nique NEVER won a title. Nice fantasy though. The Hawks were not going to win a title under Nique either and it was not even close. Nique wasn't that good anymore and the hawks wanted to get something while he still had a little value. Diesel, I've read some of your posts and the best I can figure is you really don't know what your talking about the majority of the time. Some of the stuff you write, like the Hawks would have won a title under an aging Nique, is just stupid. Other stuff you put down is based primarily on ignorance. But just because you say it with authority, well, it doesn't do anything to enhance your position. Let me say this one more time and maybe it will sink in...AL needs to moved as soon as possible because he doesn't even attempt to play defense. If all we had were 5 Al Harrington's on the court at one time we wouldn't win much because the best teams in the NBA play great defense. Al is a bum on defense...only a coach like Woodson would put up with it. Only a GM as bad as Billy Knight would still have him on the roster. Stop your stupidity with AL Harrington. His act on the court is even more tired than yours. First off, Nique's situation and Al's situation are/were completely different. One played for th top team in the East, the other plays for the worst team in the East. But for those of you that say that we wouldn't have won a Title with Nique, that may be true . . but we could've gotten to the NBA finals in that 94 season. Although Lenny was growing tired of Nique continuously jacking up shots and playing lackluster defense, Nique still possessed the ability to completely take over a game. When you look at a JORDAN-LESS Eastern Conference back in 94, the Hawks could've EASILY won the conference if he were on that team come playoff time. Remember, one of the reasons why we lost in that 2nd round series, was the on and off play of Danny Manning. Manning had a game one time in which he scored 6 points in the playoffs. 6 friggin points. The Pacers completely exposed us in that series as a team that just couldn't put the ball in the hole, even though we "supposedly" had a better all-around player in Manning. Nique was the go-to guy and the takeover guy on that squad. In the playoffs, we just didn't have that. The Hawks broke 90 points just one time in that series. The Rockets with Olajuwon would've been tough to beat for the title, but we definitely could've gotten there. And you know what, this organization OWED it to Nique to keep him on a squad that had the #1 seed in the East. They dealt him at the very point in which this franchise reached its peak. How stupid. And Diesel is right. We've been looking for a Nique-like player ever since we traded him. Hopefully, JJ or Marvin will be that player.

I just love the fact that Marvin and T-Mac have similar numbers across the board as rookies.

Quote: hey he's a color commentator stating the obvious. i look for Redd and their PG to go off against the Hawks. When Barkley said that last night, I was halfway laughing and saying "F you Barkley" at the same time. But I was laughing because it was the truth. The one thing about Charles is that he doesn't sugarcoat anything. And you have to respect that about him. I can't be mad at him because he told the truth about the Hawks. I mean, Mike James looked like the best scoring PG in the NBA when he played us.

As a Cincinnati Bengals fan, I watched that organization get out of the "welfare" state, when they brought in Marvin Lewis. 2002 Bengals: - finished 2 - 14 and essentially hit rock bottom. Summer of 2003: - Bengals go outside of the organization, and hire Marvin Lewis. The Bengals owner, Mike Brown, had a tradition of hiring guys that either played for his father, Paul Brown, or coached with the Bengals as an assistant at some point in the past. Mikey was loyal to a fault. - Also that summer, Lewis tries to convince star linebacker Takeo Spikes to stay on the team. Takeo, tired of the losing, decides that he's not waiting to see if Marvin can change things, and goes to Buffalo. Fall of 2003: - star RB Corey Dillon pulls a hamstring early in the season, giving Rudi Johnson a chance to start. He makes the most of his chance. Dillon comes back at midseason and retains his starting job. But Rudi, because he ran so well in Corey's absence, still gets about 10 - 12 carries a game. This doesn't sit well with Corey. End of 2003 season: - Dillon pretty much expresses his desire to be traded. Bengals trade him to the Patriots for a 2nd round pick, which turns out to be safety Madieu Williams out of Maryland. - Bengals finish 8 - 8, posting their first non-losing season in 13 years. 2004 season: - Jon Kitna, the winner of the NFL Comeback Player of the Year award, and who also tossed 26 TDs and 15 INTs, was benched at the start of the season, in favor of 2nd year QB, and #1 pick Carson Palmer. Palmer struggles through 1/2 of the year, casting doubt on why the Bengals didn't just stick with Kitna. Palmer shows flashes of greatness by season's end, and gives people a glimpse of what to expect out of him in the future. - Rudi Johnson, who took over for Dillon, breaks the team single-season rushing mark held by Dillon. - Bengals finish 8 - 8 for the 2nd year in a row. 2005 NFL Draft: - Bengals take 2 Georgia defensive standouts in the first 2 rounds. DE David Pollack and LB Odell Thurman. They will become the cornerstones of the Bengals defense in the future. 2005 season: - Bengals cut decent, but disappointing and oft-injured WR, Peter Warrick before the start of the season, because he couldn't get healthy. T.J. Houshmanzedah and Chris Henry become the #2 and #3 receivers. Combined, they would catch 109 balls for over 1,300 yards. - Rudi Johnson, once again, rushes for over 1,400 yards, the first Bengal to ever do that. - While Pollack got all of the preseason accolades, it was Odell Thurman that looks like the future defensive star, finishing 3rd in the Defensive ROY. 109 tackles, 5 INTs, and 5 forced fumbles. - Carson Palmer blossoms into a top 3 QB in the league, throwing for 32 TDs, 12 INTs, and over 3,800 yards - Bengals go 11 - 5 and make the playoffs for the first time since 1990. I state all of this, Hawk fans, to illustrate how a team can cut or get rid of TALENTED players for a bad to mediocre team, and get even BETTER players either via the draft, or via free agency. Sometimes, you have to let those good players go, in order to play guys with potentially more talent. Let me ask you guys this, that are for Al staying a Hawk. If there were a 50/50 chance that either Marvin or Smoove could become even better than Al by the start of the 2007 season, would you take those odds? What about 40/60? 30/70? even 25/75? While I compare Al to Wally Szczerbiak in the fact that both guys are good offensive players that play lousy defense. Another good comparison to Al, is a guy like Jalen Rose. If you switch to football, you can also compare Al to a guy like Jon Kitna. Kitna has always been a good enough QB to survive in this league. He was the last QB to lead the Seahawks to the playoffs ( trivia for you guys ). But Kitna's "kryptonite" has always been his arm strength. He's a "throw to a spot" QB, not a "throw the ball on a rope straight to the receiver" QB. In the playoff game this year, Carson's only pass was a 66 yard bomb to Chris Henry that was right on target. Kitna could NEVER throw a pass like that. And that's the major case against keeping Al here, and suppressing guys like Smoove and Marvin. Athletically, they're both superior to Al. Smoove is the better defender, while Marvin may have better overall tools. Al is undoubtely better than both Smooth and Marvin right now. But would keeping Al, be like the Bengals keeping Kitna at QB . . when you have "potential" in Carson Palmer on the bench?

Quote: Quote: Teams in last place need to make changes so they won't be in last place any more. This is a welfare mind set. We need to make changes just to do something. Nevermind that we have been highly competitive against everyone we have played with the exception of the first Washington game and the Phoenix, Miami games. I mean really.. from night to night, I can truly say that the Hawks can win. There's no team that we have played that I have said during the game in some point, there is no way we can beat this team. That's a lot of progress from last yr and the year before. But the Welfare mind says... Start over again. "Teams in last place need to make changes so they won't be in last place any more." - Exodus... welfare minded. Diesel obviously doesn't understand the concept of welfare. People on welfare get into that situation in the first place for a variety of circumstances. Nobody likes to be on welfare, but some don't see any other way to get out of the system. Sure, you can work your way off of welfare, but will you find a good enough paying job to get you off of it. And in the meantime, who will watch your kids? That's why a lot of the people on welfare, just give up and keep things status quo. They may try a little to get out of the system. But in the end, they don't want to put forth the effort and the time to get out, and just settle for what they can get. Those are just some of the issues involving welfare. So in actuality, YOU'RE the one with the welfare mentality. You're the one that want us to stick with Al, evne though we've won 10 games out of 36. Exodus made a great point when he stated that. People that want to get off of welfare tend to do extreme things in order to make their situation better. If we do keep Al, that's keeping things the same. People on welfare don't constantly "start over", they constantly keep things the same. In fact, people on welfare get comfortable with where they are, even if it means that they're barely making it through life. Keeping Al means that the Hawks aren't willing to take any more chances, and are content with being where they are now.

Quote: You guys are hilarious! Al is not a great defender by any stretch but he is certainly better than Dog. His D is actually not TERRIBLE, it's just not good. If we had a big time defender at Center, I think Al's D is adequate. People talk about Smoove like he is a terrific defender already but that is FAR from being the case. Smoove is a good shotblocker and a decent help defender but his post D is still a work in progress. A good example of that was on display for those who watched the Houston game. Did you see Smove trying to guard Juwan Howard in the post? Howard posted him and Smoove tried to fight around and front him. Problem was, he fought around Howard on the BOTTOM and the passer then had an easy pass to Howard right to the front of the rim which he converted of course. That was about as bad a display of the proper way to play post D as you will ever see. Right now, Smoove is actually better at defending most SFs than he is defending most PFs. That might change but it hasn't yet. Trace, what's happening down the stretch of games, are teams are attacking two areas . . PG and PF. Those are the positions that Lue and Al play most of the time when the game is on the line. And those are the two guys that teams go right after. And it's usually with the pick and roll. No, Al's defense is not as bad as Big Dog's, but the effect of his defense may as well be the same in these tight games. As far as Smoove goes, his post D needs work as well . . just not as much as Al's. And at least Smoove gives you the "threat" of a shot being blocked, instead of what Al gives . . the "look at you while you drive to the basket" threat. Smoove's D has changed a few games this year. I can't say the same about Al.

Al is essentially Wally Szczerbiak. - a guy who can put the ball in the hole and create his own shot and look damn good at times doing it. - a guy who is a complete liability on defense, and the other teams ALWAYS know it. - a guy who most T-Wolves fans are split on, just like we are with Al. The problem with these two guys, is that both tease the fan base with their stellar offensive play at times. Then they completely let them down with untimely turnovers at the end of games, or matador defense at critical times when you need a stop. Both have the ability to become stars in the league, they just don't have the work ethic as a whole, to make themselves a better all-around player. One of the things that keep the T-Wolves from being major players on the free agent market ( outside of KG's ridiculous contract ), are the LONG contracts given to both Troy Hudson and Wally. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm Wally is a good scorer in this league. But is he actually an asset to the Wolves, when he gives just about everything he scores, back to the other team when his man scores on him? That's the dilemma we face with Al. And by the way . . . wasn't this the same gripe about Antoine Walker? A guy that has all of the offensive talent in the world, but couldn't play a lick of defense? So which one would we rather have? Walker with his multiple offensive capabilities and defensive inefficiencies . . or . . Smoove, with his growing, but still sub-par offensive abilities, with his steadily improving defensive capabilities?

LOL . . what kills me about this whole Al thing, is that people act like he'll be a 10 game difference if he were to be traded for some less talented offensive players, but better need players that can also play defense. Having said that, I want Al traded to bring in some VETERAN talent to this team. These young kids need some vets on the team. Some REAL vets . . not 23 - 25 year old vets. One of the main problems with this team, is that they don't know how to finish games. If they did, we'd be hovering close to .500 right now. And that "finishing games" comment includes guys like JJ and Al, who really haven't been in the "go to guy" role much in their careers. It definitely shows at the end of these games. History tells us that the likelihood of a quality unrestricted free agent signing with the Hawks, are slim and none. So if we are to address some of our "needs", without relying on 19 - 22 year old guys to address them, Al HAS to be traded to bring in some veterans. What discourages me about Al, is his basketball IQ. Some guys play the game smart. Childress is one of those guys, when he's aggressive. Overall, he's a very smart basketball player. Al, on the other hand, seems to rely solely on his physical skill to make plays, and not his brain. To re-sign Al, means that he'll have to consistently be our #1 option, while JJ plays the playmaker role and be the #2 option. Who knows if either of these guys are mentally equipped to be the #1 option. Al has the desire to be that #1 . . . just not the basketball savvy at the end of games to be effective in that role. A lot of that has to do with our lack of a true point guard. But just like in the last offseason, when guys like Antonio Daniels, Damon Stoudamire, Nick Van Exel, and Bobby Jackson didn't give the Hawks the time of day . . the same fate awaits us yet again in the summer of 2006. To get that big man or that PG, we almost have to trade Al to get them. Otherwise, we'll have to go via the draft,and hope we get lucky to draft a guy(s) who are NBA ready in their rookie year.

Quote: Your sooo right they are almost the same AL is all of 25 and shoots over 45% from 3. Reef is on the other side of 30 and doesnt have range at all. How did we miss the comparison. I repeat what i wrote on another post. That was my point, its not the players is the franchise that Knight took over. When you have an orginazation drafting John Konkack over Karl Malone. Now nobody has a cyrstal ball, but we havent drafted an All-Star since Pistol Pete. (Nique came from Utah). So how do you expect to turn a franchise around over night. You can't blame AL for not getting a PG in the draft to get the ball to everyone that can finish. Smoove and Chill can finish they just cant create their own shot. So lets just trade the best player on the team, and not to mention a guy who has come out time and time again saying he wants to be here and build something for a rental like Artest or Francis. You know neither will stay when their contracts are up up. Yes AL will ask a lot this off season and he deserves it, but dont go offering him to any team for reasons out of his control. Everyone knocks his turnovers, well how many of those come when he gets the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock because we cant get in our offensive set. So he is forced to go into the double team and try and create or it will be a shot clock violation. How many turnovers because Chill and Smoove are young and stand there and dont cut, causing the defense to collapse and giving Al no outlet. Everyone points at the negative, but nobody points out he is one of the best SF in the game, is only 25, and wants to be here. Give him a PG and watch how he and JJ will take off. What you're missing, is that even with Al's stellar play, he has cost us more games than he has won . . strictly because of his defense down the stretch of games. Even his offense down the stretch of games is less than to be desired. And it's not like Al is the difference in us becoming a playoff team right now. In fact, who's to say that if you increase JJ's shots by 4 - 6 a game, that he couldn't average 23 - 25 ppg, with the rest of the guys picking up the slack? I mean, Big Dog was doing the same things that Al does now, in the first year Dog was here. The numbers are similar . . and the defense is too. It's one thing if we didn't have a choice but to keep Al, but we do have choices now. Even Lue, Chill, and Smoove played well last year when Al wasn't even in the lineup. They took on the scoring and rebounding roles and thrived in them. Chill was around 15 points and 8 rebounds last year, while Smoove was at 13 and 9. Al is definitely expendible on a team that he doesn't necessarily make a better team overall.

Quote: Pass First "Defensive" PG would improve both ends tremendously. Sure, we're getting the lay-up drill half the time, but if you had someone to stop the PG on the outside, we wouldn't necessarily need extra in the middle. I'm tired of "good" PG's having "GREAT" games against us. Again, my checklist of "realistic" possibilities from the Unrestricted PG Free Agents of 2006: 1. Speedy Claxton 2. Jannero Pargo 3. Marcus Banks 4. Bobby Jackson "Realistic" possibilities for bigs: 1. Pryz 2. Nazr 3. LoWright 4. Olowokandi 5. Battie If those are the possibilities, give me Bobby Jackson ( because he's a veteran guard who can defend and score, and has playoff experience ) . . and Lo Wright ( because of the same reasons, plus he can rebound ). Too bad that Bobby would probably never come here. Lo Wright, we could get, seeing that his status in Memphis is up in the air. I DON'T want Pargo or Kandi. Lue is better than Pargo.