TheNorthCydeRises

Quote: We all love the "What if - - " game and dream up ways to see if it will improve our beloved Hawks !! We all know that most trade ideas aren't really going to happen, but we like to think, "What if - - " Some get discouraged after a bad game, or in this case, the fact that we are 0-6 and looking at things to get worse before they get better, and want to "Do something - - NOW" Cooler heads prevail. We realise that rebuilding from the ground up, starting with nothing left over, now that Jason Collier, the last holdover, has passed away, will be a slow and mostly painful process. Trade ideas will continue to flourish. We will continue to cuss and discuss the merits of each one. I's entertaining. It keeps us from going insane with all this loosing. Even great teams have fans who want to trade their players. Why should we Hawk fans be any different?? We're not. We'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. I think talking about unrealistic trades do nothing but make the frustration even worse. Sure, we could use all of the guys that people have tossed out, but you have to look at the flip side too. Why would those teams take on a player that we don't want anymore? If anything, it'll be teams coming to US and looking for a guy, instead of the other way around. And more than likely, they won't come looking for Childress. They'll come looking for one of our rookies or Smoove, or possibly try to swindle us with some junk deal to get Al. Barring some miracle in Dalls ( or if Dirk is still hurt ), we're starting the season 0 - 8. After that, we go to Oklahoma City. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather talk about what lineup we can put out on the floor to beat the Hornets, than talk about trades that will never go down.

Quote: Yeti, to put things in perspective about the draft picks, name one player the Hawks have drafted in the last 10 years that is a better player than Joe. (( clapping )) I'm glad someone gets it. The trade for Joe will turn out to be the best thing the Hawks have done since acquiring Dikembe. JJ got his assists quietly because I know that at least 5 of those assists came off of jumpers. 2 by Salim, 2 by Marvin, and one by Smoove. If JJ is going to play the "playmaker" postion, he'll have to be surrounded by guys that can knock down the medium range jumper. JJ just had a bad shooting game. But he kept his head in the game enough to contribute in many different ways. ( see the 6 rebounds, 12 assists, and 3 steals ) The only flaw in Joe's game right now, is that he's not going to the hole hard enough to consistently draw fouls. Guys like Kobe and AI live at the FT line. Even a guy like Dominque used to routinely have an 8 - 22 shooting game, but would go 9 - 11 from the FT line, and end up with 30 points. So if JJ is going to go to the hole, he can't be tossing up those baby hooks and half lay-ups ( ala Magic Johnson ). He needs to go to the hole HARD, and make somebody foul him. That's the only thing his game is lacking at this point. Once he learns that, he's going to be a 22 - 25 ppg player EASILY. The last shot JJ missed in the Memphis game, was one of those floating lay-ups that he CAN make, but that one just rimmed out. Memphis gets the rebound and calls time out. Then Mike Miller takes that quick shot that ZaZa rebounds. ZaZa chokes at the FT line, and the rest is history.

Seriously people . . we're in the 2nd week of the season. The 2nd week. A lot of you are acting like we should be 4 - 2 right now. At best, we should be 3 - 3, but realistically 2 - 4 ( Portland, Memphis being the win . . with the other win possibly being against the Lakers. ) The Clippers are obviously vastly improved. So is Golden St. To be honest, the 0 - 6 start does suprise me. But seeing that we lost 2 games at the buzzer, also gives me hope about seeing this team reach that 30 win mark, IF we take care of business against the Eastern Conference lower and mediocre team. But when you guys toss out these trades for mediocre position replacements, I just have to wonder where your heads are at? - I'm not ready to give up on Childress or Smoove after 6 friggin games - I'm not ready to trade Al, just to make room for our youngsters - We haven't played an Eastern Conference team yet, the very conference in which the Hawks SHOULD get the majority of their wins aganst. And they match up much better against the East teams, than they do the West teams. - Salim and Marvin are obviously going to improve as time goes on. And they may improve quickly than most people think. - I'm sure in the heck are not willing to trade ANYBODY on this team, for the mediocre PG's and C's that most of you have been tossing around, just because we need help in those positions. *********** What every Hawks fan needs to understand, is that this team was destined to go through stretches in which they'd struggle to get wins. But they'll also go through stretches in which they win 3 in a row, 3 out of 5, 4 out of 6 games. But the bad stretches were more likely to come at the beginning of the season, than in the middle or near the end of the season. This is a young team, so you have to understand that young teams are very inconsistent and streaky. Woodson is going to have to tinker with this lineup for at least another week or two, before settling on the guys that will give us the best chance at winning games on a nightly basis. But for right now, Woodson is just going to have to go with the guys that are playing the best on that particular night. The only guys that have proven that they can bring it night in and night out, are JJ and ZaZa. That list will also include Al, once he gets back to being 100%. When you watch the Hawks in person, as I did Saturday night, you see what the problems are: - interior defense and perimeter defensive rotation - consistent perimeter shooting - inability to finish in traffic or drawing fouls - team is just "soft" all around You also see what this team is good at: - JJ and his shooting/playmaking ability - ZaZa's aggressiveness on the offensive end ( even if he is too soft to convert sometimes ) - Salim and Marvin having confidence in their games - Smoove showing the ability to be a dominant rebounder, when he sets his mind to it Trading Childress for a PG that isn't even starting on his current team, isn't going to solve our problems. Jack and Duhon may be good defenders, but they still don't provide the scoring punch that JJ needs to be playing with him on offense. The same goes for Devin Harris or Earl Watson. Trading Al for a big man is unrealistic, because how many decent big men are traded from teams that need them? You think trading Al for a Michael Sweetney type player is going to solve our interior defense problems? How about Adonyl Foyle? How about the "Kandi Man" in Minnesota? You just can't trade this guy for ANYBODY, just because we have a "need" at that position, and expect this team to suddenly become better. The NBA doesn't work like that. No matter what people say about Al, he's EASILY the 2nd best player on this team . . EASILY. I'd hate to see a game in which we don't have Al in the lineup. OOPS . . we already have seen what happens ( see the 1st Clipper game ) So in the meantime, we have no choice but to roll with what we have. Personally, I want to see this lineup start games: G - Salim G - JJ F - Williams F - Harrington C - ZaZa I think this lineup gives us the best chance to put points on the board and keep people honest on defense. With JJ being the main "playmaker" in this line up ( don't call him a PG if you don't want to, but he is easily our best playmaker ), he'll have the option to keep it himself and score, toss it out to Salim and Williams for open jumpers, or dump it down to Al or ZaZa to get them a look from 12 feet and in. With Salim and Williams starting, it'll also give the Hawks a more confident bunch out on the floor. Funny to say that about 2 rookies, but Salim and Williams are already poised enough to make the correct decisions with the basketball on offense ( whether it be to shoot it, or put it on the floor and try to make a play for someone else ). I liked the confidence that both players showed on Saturday night. Bringing Lue, Chill and Smoove off the bench, may pay off to be a better option for this team in the sense that they'll be able to do their thing against the other 2nd teamers, instead of mainly going up against the other team's starter. Look at Milwaukee. You think if the only thing they'd done was to bring in Bobby Simmons, that everything would be OK? NO. They not only had to draft Bogut, they had to trade Mason for Magloire, plus get back one of their 1st round picks from 2 years ago, and HOPE he played anywhere near the level he played in his rookie year. It pretty much took the Bucks 3 years to reshape that team from having Cassell, Big Dog and Allen, to the squad they have now. If you're a Hawks fan, you better be willing to wait AT LEAST that long, before we really start to turn the corner and become a legit 7 - 8 seed playoff team. But this WILL take time, unless one of these youngsters rapidly matures and becomes a star. So what does the future hold for us, seeing that we're now 0 - 6? Let's see: - we play the world champs in San Antonio tomorrow night - we play 5 of our next 7 and 8 of our next 12 games on the road ( 6 of those 8 teams made the playoffs last year ) - we don't have a significant stretch of home games until Dec. 16 ( in which we play 4 out of 5 at home ) and Jan 14. ( in which we play 7 straight and 8 out of 9 games at home ) - 13 of our next 22 games are on the road, with the vast majority of them coming against last year's playoff teams. In my opinion, these are the most winnable games until Jan 1st. * @ OK City * vs Boston * vs Portland * vs Miami ( if Shaq is still out ) * vs Toronto * @ Utah ( if AK is still hurt ) * vs New York * vs Philly * vs Charlotte * @ Toronto If we win all 10 of these games, that'll put us at 10 - 18 by Jan 1st. Personally, I'd be satisfied if we're 8 - 20. Realistically, we could be looking at a 6 - 22 record by Jan 1st. Having a Chris Paul or a Jamal Magloire here right now, probably doesn't change that, because we have so MANY holes . . not just one major hole. But before any of you talk about trading anybody, you better make damn sure that one of these kids can become a star by the end of December. If they can't, we really can't afford to let anybody go until that time. And if and when the time comes that we do have to trade Al, we bet not trade him for some scrub who has less ability than he does, from an impact standpoint.

Quote: It's simple... Kobe produced more than JJ. He was more effective. The Hawks aren't competetive. The Hawks are so low right now that lower isn't going to make much of a difference. This team MIGHT win 13 games. Bottom of the barrell. The point is that the Hawks are so bad right now it doesn't matter if JJ plays or not. I mean, they done atleast this well without him last year. It's early, but I don't think JJ has improved the Hawks anymore than Walker did at the start of last year. He brings some ball handling and some sort of Steve Smith like game, and that's not bad. But, it's not on the elite level and elite is the type of player the Hawks have paid for basically. Gotta love all of the negativity from Hotlanta. This dude is completely judging JJ on 4 games. Like he's supposed to come out and play like Michael Jordan or something. The guy goes 11 - 20 FG, pumps in 26 points to keep us in the game, yet, that's still not enough for Hotlanta. What about the other guys Hot? People have been saying all along that Chill and Smoove MUST step up their games and play better. If they played ANYTHING like they did at the end of last year, we'd probably be 2 - 2 right now . . not 0 - 4. Ask Kobe what the difference in actually having "help" feels like? He had Devean George, Lamar Odom, and Smush Parker giving him tremendous help the entire game. Kobe's 37 points kept the Lakers in the game. It was the play of the others that acutally "won" the game for them. Without Smush's 21 points, the Lakers either lose . . or barely win last night. But the guy knocked down just about every open shot he had. The question isn't about JJ. The question is when is Smoove going to have a 15 point - 10 rebound game? When is Chill going to have a 18 point - 7 rebound - 4 assist game? When are either of these guys going to step up and start knocking down shots when we need a basket the most? These are the guys that truly need to step up and help JJ and Al, and turn this thing around. JJ could've scored 40 last night, and we'd still probably would've lost. Just keep the hate coming if we start to win. Don't waver on your hate.

This is a good post. Although Spree definitely isn't worth more than a 3 mill/yr contract right now, to add him to the Hawks wouldn't hurt much. Spree's numbers were down last year, because Minnesota insisted on splitting his time with Sczcerbiak and Hassell. T-Wolves fans were mad at him last year, because they said that his defense had fallen off tremendously. Spreewell's numbers last year, are pretty much consistent with the numbers he put up during Minny's championship run 2 years ago. The difference is that Spree averaged over 38 minutes a game 2 years ago. And therin lies the problem with bringing in Spree. He's a "volume minutes" type player, much like JJ. But unlike JJ, who can be pretty consistent throughout the game, Spree gets his numbers in streaks. He's the type that can go 1 - 7 FG in 20 minutes, but go 5 - 5 FG in the next 8 minutes. And you never know when he'll get red hot and carry the offense. So if the Hawks chose to bring in Spree, they'd have to play him at least 30 - 35 minutes a game . . and start him . . in order to get the full use out of the guy. That means that one of these kids ( Salim, Childress, Smoove or Lue ) are going to see his minutes drop tremendously. Smoove would probably see more time at the 4 than out on the wing, if Spree was brought in. With Marvin in that same spot, you'll probably see the guy who is playing the best, get the most time behind Al. Adding Spree would give you another "legit" 2 on this team. That could enable Woodson to play JJ at the 3, if he has Lue or Salim at the 1. So we could go 1 - Lue 2 - Spree 3 - JJ 4 - Al 5 - ZaZa The are a lot of pros and cons that come with brining in a guy like Spree. The biggest "pros" is that Spree is a veteran player that can still create his own shot and has a scorer's mentality. The biggest "cons" are that he'll need major minutes to be effective, he'll take away valuable time away from our kids, and that he might need 2 - 3 weeks of playing time, just to get up to game shape. If the Hawks did bring in Spree, it'll be the type of PR move that is made to keep hope alive in the current fan base. In my opinion, I think the guy that is going to emerge to be the vocal and emotional leader of this team . . is Salim Stoudamire. I think he's the one guy that has the personality to take on that role. When the Hawks do start winning, don't be surprised if it's because Salim is playing very well in what ever role he's in.

LMAO. Diesel, you're usually dead on track with your analysis. But your take on Troy Hudson is absolutely ridiculous. Go to the ESPN.com T-Wolves board, and ask those fans about Hudson's defense. 82games.com ranked Hudson as the WORST defender in the league. All that guy does, is shoot . . and shoot some more. Hudson is no more than a faster and more inconsistent version of Tyronn Lue. That would be a horrible pickup for the Hawks.

Please don't judge this team by what you see in the first 2 road games of the year. It's ironic that the worst team in the league last year, has to start out with 3 road games and play 6 of their first 9 games on the road. I want to see how this team also plays on its home floor, before I start making sweeping decisions about the squad. It'll be interesting to see how this ATL v PORTLAND game turns out, seeing both teams got the hell beat out of them last night, and both are playing back to back games. Last night pretty much proves though, that we need all the talent we can get. AL may be our best player, and you can't have your best player out and expect to win on the road. It's a long season, so we have to let this thing play out before you give up hope on breaking that 30-win barrier. In the meantime, just stay cool, and let these players learn how to play with each other. And let's see if JJ can find his nitche in the offense to the point where he can be an effective scorer and mini-playmaker at the same time.

I definitely agree. Woodson should make a concerted effort to get JJ 15 - 20 shots/game. Same with Al. If those other guys get points, then that's all gravy. But our main two guys need to be shooting the rock. Eventually, Woodson is going to have to shorten this rotation. I think he's just seeing who is going to play hard night in and night out. After that, some of the guys who are getting minutes, won't be getting as many come late December.

Nicholas is the only person talking with some sense on this board. Are you people serious? You're ready to toss the Hawks under the bus and trade Childress AFTER ONE GAME? To me, that game last night was a complete fallacy. The Hawks got outscored 27 - 2 in a 7 minute stretch in the 3rd quarter last night. 27 - 2 Now are we supposed to believe that this team is THAT BAD? As far as Childress goes, he'll have to put up about 10 subpar nights for me to want to trade him. Hardly anybody shuts down J-Rich, so I knew Chill wouldn't. Just calm down people. Let this team play about 10 games or so, before making some extreme judgement.

nice job with that report

Marv will be a fan favorite by the start of the 2007 season.

No comments on Salim? For the amount of minutes he played, he had a great night. 13 pts 5-8 FG 3-4 3FG In 22 minutes. I wonder if he was the one that extended the lead in the 4th quarter?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2005102801 INteresting box scores. 6 guys in double figures. Hawks shoot 58%

I was in Nashville last night for the Hawks vs Heat game. When you see some of the young guys live, you can see why some people get playing time, and why some people don't. The collapse at the end was a result of Jason Williams and Antoine Walker ( both who had been relatively cold the entire game ) getting hot at the end . . Tyronn Lue being a horrific ball handling/decision making PG ( he had costly TOs in that quarter ) . . and people not securing the rebound and putting a body on somebody on that final rebound/shot by Payton. I think Donta was the one that had a chance to secure the rebond with about 7 seconds left. Instead, he tries to knock the ball into the backcourt ( ala what the Spurs tried to do to the Lakers, when the ball got knocked back to Horry, and he hits the game winning 3 pointer. The play was almost exactly like that ). When the ball got knocked back to Walker, he missed the 3, but Payton was there to pick up the long rebound and bank in the game winner. Hawks players were stunned that they lost. That's kind of a good thing, seeing that it is preseason. At least they cared whether they won or lost. PLAYER OBSERVATIONS - Salim Stoudamire: It's clearly obvious to me that as of right now, this guy is incapable of running the point for the Hawks on a full time basis. The guy does have talent. But two things KILL him when he's at the point. 1) His height. Bascially what happened last night, was that when he was in the game, Gary Payton was matched up against him. GP is 6- 4 and is still a decent ( not great ) but decent defensive player. Salim had virtually no chance in getting his shot off over GP. Expect him to struggle against the bigger PGs in the league. 2) His incapability to manage the double-team. Actually, Lue has this problem as well. But Salim didn't seem to manage the double team well last night at all. He either held the ball too long and made a tough pass to someone else, turned it over on a bad pass, or lost the ball trying to split the double team. This is the luxury that JJ at the point gives us. He can at least see over top of a double team, giving him a better chance to find the open man. Salim did do some good things at the point though. He basically ran the team when the Hawks surged ahead of the Heat in the 2nd half of the 3rd quarter. And his defensive rebounding last night was incredible, mainly because the vast majority of them came within 5 feet of the goal, and not the typical long rebounds that guards usually track down. Kind of reminded me of Fred Hoiberg. But expect Salim to see heavy minutes this year ( heavy, as in 25 - 30 minutes ) only when he hits a few shots in a row. The Hawks MUST utilize this guy in a scorer's role, not a playmaking role. - ZaZa: I tell you guys what. I think we got a steal in ZaZa. This kid obviously understands the game of basketball. Don't let his shooting percentage last night fool you. He was matched up against Zo when he was missing shots. Zo is still an elite defender at the center position. But the guy did it all last night. He hit the boards. He showed some nice post moves to get baskets. He even ran a 3 on 1 fast break with Childress and Josh Smith, in which he grabbed a long rebound, took it to about the 3 point line, dished it off to Smith, who wowed the crowd with a nice one-hand dunk. If ZaZa develops a "go-to" post move, or perfects the 12 foot jumper, then we may have a solid player for the next 4 years at C/F. I like this kid. - Esteban Batista: LOL . . I thought Toine was going to get a tech in that game, due to Batista bodying him up. The thing I like about Batista, is that he knows that he's going to play limited minutes. Unlike Josh Smith, who puts it on cruise control in stretches in games, Batista is going to put the pedal to the metal, and go all out out for the 10 - 15 minutes he'll get to play. He'll come up big in a game this year, watch. - John Edwards: LOL . . please cut him right now. He's the complete opposite of Batista and ZaZa. Both of those guys play hard when they're out on the court, and they aren't soft. Edwards is soft as Kleenex. Don't expect this guy to play too much this year, if at all. In fact, where is Ekezie? Might as well bring him back. - Donta Smith: Donta was "the man" for the 2nd teamers last night. Most all of his shots came from 15 feet and in, but he scored in a variety of ways. The soft jumper was falling and he was getting to the basket. Even though Matt Walsh was guarding him throughout most of the 2nd quarter, in which he scored I know 8 - 10 points, he did a great job while in the game. - Josh Smith: 75% of the time, he was horrible. I think it's because he's just a lazy player right now. He missed some easy wide open 15 - 18 foot jumpers. He forced a lot of things going to the hole, even being completely out of control at times. And he tossed some horrible passes that could've led to easy lay-ups. If Smoove doesn't watch himself, he could find himself splitting equal time with Marvin, or being sat on the bench on those nights in which he just isn't into the flow of the game. Unlike last year, we have multiple guys who can step into his spot, and keep him on the bench, if need be. I hope he realizes that he can't be the Slam Dunk Champion forever. When that 18 foot jumper of his isn't falling, he better switch gears, and turn into a "poor man's" Shawn Marion, and see if he can pick up some points off offensive rebounds and easy put backs. - Josh Childress: Solid game overall, although he had NO CHANCE in guarding Dwayne Wade last night. One thing I did see Coach Mike do with Chill, is try to make him the primary option in the offense in certain groups. In one grouping, here's who was on the floor: PG - Lue G - Salim F - Chill F - Batista C - Edwards Now granted, this group will probably NEVER see the floor together in a regular season game. But it was interesting to see them try to run offense with this group. Needless to say, they weren't very successful. - Royal Ivey: If Delk is healthy, he may never see the floor again. His PG play was so bad at times, that Woodson had to pull him and put Lue back in the game. He's Salim, with far less offensive ability. - Tyronn Lue: Although he had a lackluster performance last night, I'll still say that when he's placed alongside JJ, he'll be decent most of the year. Lue is a lot like Salim in the fact that while both of them have trouble running a team, they could also be vital assets for this team, because of their shot making ability. Lue was pretty good at the end of the 2005 season, as a scoring PG. He'll probably have to be in that role again, and let JJ make most of the playmaking decisions. - Al: He was EASILY the 2nd best player on the floor last night, outside of Dwayne Wade ( and possibly Donta ). The guy finished just about every shot he had around the basket ( easy and very difficult ). Al played like he was "the man" last night, which is always good for the Hawks. Haslem had no answer for him in the 1st half. And when he was matched up against Walker, he even showed him a thing or two. LOL @ Walker . . I can't believe he was instrumental in that game last night, after going I know 3 - 11 in the game for a time there. - Damn . . I was hoping that JJ would play so that I can see how he interacted with the other guys on the court. But I got a feeling that he would be a no-show, seeing that he wasn't with the rest of the Hawks at Shaq's party at the club on Sunday Night. Seeing Marvin for the first time live would've been nice too. Oh well. I'll have to wait 3 weeks when I'll be in ATL for the Memphis game.

It's times like these that put everything in perspective. And I truly feel for his wife, who was with him when he first went into cardiac arrest. I don't know how religious the people on this board are, but it seems as if God takes certain people who are truly ready to go to Heaven, to bring awareness to something that will eventually save many other lives. - Dale Earnhardt's death brought about many safety changes in NASCAR with the HANS device around the neck being standard on all cars, and the SAFER walls being installed at high speed tracks - Korey Stringer's death brought about many changes in how teams practice on all levels of football, especially from a hydration standpoint. I remember when I played high school football, coaches would damn near restrict you from getting water while practice was going on. That was to make you "tough and resilent". These days, frequent water breaks during practice are the norm. It'll be interesting to see what the official cause of death is for Collier. His death will lead to some sort of major change in sports. And it might just save Eddy Curry's life.

It's amazing how players step their games up, when in a contract year. I fully expect Al to have his best year yet, and make it hella difficult for the Hawks to just trade him away for scrubs. Question: If Al put up these numbers 19.8 ppg 8.1 rebs 3.3 assists 48% FG 74% FT Do the Hawks consider keeping the guy, or is he gone regardless?