Plainview1981

You are so blinded by your love for Reef that you will not face facts that he was outplayed. I don't need stats to prove it because I saw the game...Gasol scored on Reef nearly everytime he took him in the post...He also made some nice passes.....Much to the dismay of Diesel and you, Reef got outplayed.

Bad teams give Alan Henderson, Chris Crawford, and Nazr Mohommad huge raises," Sadly almost every team in the league has bad contracts.. "Bad teams send two first round picks for trash like Lorenzen Wright. Bad teams send future first round picks for short slow point guards, when your best shooting guard is also short. " What does any of this have to do with rebuilding and getting lotto picks? " Saying you can't build around a 20-10 guy is stupid as" Stats stats stats.. Jamison averaged 23/7 and he got his @ss shiped off. Denver was unsucessful for years trying to build around Dice. There are things like defense, leader ship, and attitude and Reef doesn't have these things. "lso trading Shareef for a first round pick, doesn't guarantee that Utah is going to finish in the lottery anyway. So, if Utah squeaks into the playoffs, which is a strong possibility if they acquire a player like Shareef, then the Hawks are stuck with a 17th or 18th pick." That's why you wait to the day of draft like Denver did. See who's a lottery team and make a deal. "hareef deserves every penny." 20/8 is not enough for 14million. This stupid fu(ker Tim Duncan...I know it's hard for you to believe the great stat padder on bad teams Reef isn't a star. But only some of the idiots here would view him as such. Reef ain't no superstar. "How do you know that Voshon would be the third leading scorer if he played for the Hawks? He is not playing here, so how do you know what kind of looks or shot attempts that he would get in Atlanta? You don't know, so shut the f*uck up with that bullsh*t. " Because I know more about the NBA than your stupid @ss knows. Like I said, for you to consider the Hawks a playoff team is enough to show how stupid you are. "Yeah, Rasheed is only helping Portland make the playoffs every year in the toughest conference, while the Wizard are struggling just like the dumb ass Hawks. The Wizards really got the upperhand in that deal. Trading Rasheed for another less productive headache was an act of true genius." LOL you have no clue do you? "eah, Mitch Richmond was so overrated that he is probably headed to the Hall of Fame. Good players surrounded by bad talent just doesn't mean anything, huh?" What was his accomplishments? What did he win in the NBA other than riding the Lakers bench for a ring? What team did he make better? How many all defensive teams did he make? If they throw Bill Walton the Joe Nasmith of basketball as a top 50 alltime player it's possible that anyone can get selected to the HOF. Back to Reef, the only reason he even averages 20PPG is because he's the first option on a team with no talent. Did you notice that with the addition of Dog that Reef's numbers started to slip? He went from 21.2PPG down to 19.9PPG Walker can still average 18PPG as a 4th option...I hightly doubt Reef could do the same. Malone is averaging 16/10 as a 4th option...Think Reef could do that? I have my doubts. Anybody that believes Reef deserves superstar money is a freakin moron. 20/8 us barely allstar production and it should count less since Reef scores on a talent lacking team like the Hawks.

Oh and getting rid of Rasheed is no heartbreak....Heck, Portland probably would love to get rid of him themselves. And there is a difference between trading Webber for an aging and overrated Mitch Richmond and trading Reef for a lotto pick. In fact, Mitch Richmond was an overrated loser just like Reef has been for 8 years. Their careers have taken paths that are alot alike...

when the Hawks have little or no young talent. Keep Shareef, and draft correctly. Things will turn around before you know it. " That's the point you stupid fu)ker....you can't build around Reef because he isn't good enough to build around and he's overpayed..... " You rarely get impact players with the 20th pick in any draft, or by trading for the rights to Dan Dickau." That;s why you trade for lotto picks moron. 'but moving Reef for salary cap space and a lottery pick is not the answer. " Yes it is because he isn't worth what he's getting paid.

Notice I mentioned a couple of other players on that team. As far as Finley, it's called taking advantage of matchups. He is a big, athletic shooting guard, who sometimes will post up smaller two guards. Unlike Dion Glover he is quite effective at it. I guess Andre Miller can't play in the post either, huh? I suppose you have to be a big guy to play there. " You don't need an overpaid 14 million a year second rate PF. " I don't think people are clamoring to get Voshon Leonard" Actually this team sure as heck could use an outside shooter like Lenard. You are aware he'd be the 3rd leading scorer on this crappy team aren't you? "I believe the Hawks have a chance to go to the playoffs every year. Why not?" It's easy to see the flaws of a team. Maybe not for a dumbell like you, but most can see it. Most know it... No PG, No defense, Limited scorers, no experience, no bench..... It's pretty easy.

It's pretty simple...Either the Hawks get rid of stat pading overpayed players like Reef/Theo and start building a young and up coming team or else what you see now will continue for a long time yet to come. I guess you enjoy the losses as long as the good ole boys Reef/JT are allowed to post good numbers in losses.

Philly has one in Derrick Coleman. Detroit has one in Corliss Williamson. Portland has two in Zack Randolph (You do know who he is right) and Rasheed Wallace, Dallas has several, since Finley can play down low against most guards, Dirk can play with his back to the basket on occassion, and Walker." Coleman and Finley. lol pushing a jumpshooting SG as a post player is pretty desperate I'd say. "Yeah, it payed off to the tune of a 17 win season last year. " Look this year nimrod....They currently lead their division and have alot better future than this crappy Hawks team has, Reef or no Reef. Nobody besides maybe the few stupid Hawk fans here would rather have the Hawks team than the Nuggets teams. I'd surely rather have the Nuggets roster than the hawks sorry bunch of jokers. Your just like your ID says a troubledman....Or maybe just being a Hawk fan is your trouble. I'm sure your one of the fools that actually thought this team was a playoff bound team the last couple of years. lol

No. THe NBA is supposed to be entertainment...It's not really tough enough to be a sport. After Reef, I'm just trying to [censored] you off on somethings because weither you want to admit it or not...Reef is not the GOAT of basketball. He's done nothing to prove he's better than Walker/Jamison and others. They average 20/8 and Jamison has droped 50...Walker has a great post game that he just doesn't use often enough.... Great players have this presence and impact about them... Reef doesn't have it... Even if Reef was a 25/8 player that still wouldn't be good enough for this team to win. It is a FLAWED team and it's not talented enough. The team is capped out with no real way to imporvce....That means rebuild. Sure getting rid of a good stat guy looks bad...It looked bad when Denver dumped Dice(Who was better than Reef) but look at them now...They are building an EXCITING team that is already on the rise quickly.

Also, Reef has one of the best work ethics in the league, and there are VERY FEW who would disagree. " Exactually why his game is the same it was as a rookie? eh? "Why don't you go watch a sport you understand. " Basketball isnt a real sport anyway. It's too soft to be a real sport. "o watch these other PFs. Go watch these other great teams. But, please, quit posting here." One thing I will not back a career loser that is for sure. If I watched Reef every game I'd die from bordom.

He is NOT an empty stat guy like Jalen Rose, Ricky Davis, etc. Realistically, it is hard to call any low post scorer who hits a high percentage of his shots an empty stat guy. " No true...Because the games the Hawks are currently playing are meaningless. Other teams don't take the hawks seriousally. They know they are going to win the game before it even starts. Kidd could barely get there before NJ, " He make the playoffs every year with the Suns "CWEbb couldn't generate W's before Sactown," The Bullets made the playoffs twice and that's two more times than Reef has smiffed the playoffs. "Garnett, despite being acknowledged as one of the best in the game can't get out of the first round," It's called the western conference "The Hawks get two more role playing guys who fit a need and they are set." The Hawks need a legit scorer, a rebounder, two defenders, a decent bench, some toughness, ball handling, outside shooting.....JT isn't a legit NBA player......Theo is crippled in everything but shot blocking.

Reef couldn't carry Malones jockstrap. Work ethic is something Reef seems to know nothing about. Not to mention Reef's a sissy. The guy just got punked by Kenyon an average PF....... Reef doesn't have the talent to be a hof player. His post moves are limited, his jumper is weak and his defense isn't HALF of what a primed Malone was. You say the only difference between Reef and star PF's is defense....It's a hellva lot bigger gap than that. Reef sucks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1682856 Big surprise....

KC is bogus...Their defense sucks.....They are like the Titans...they have beaten mediocre teams....But KC's weak defense got exposed by Portis last week.....Their season reminds me of that fluke season the Bears had two years ago where everything went their way and they won alot of games on lucky and fluke plays. If you have to rely on a kick returner to win you alot of games you will fail in the playoffs. Either the Pats or Eagles will win the title.

Yeah, and the Lakers had Shaq coming, so of course they could afford to move Vlade. Is Keon Clark as good as Shareef? Is he even close? Heck no, so again where is the benefit? A lottery pick? The lottery is a crap shoot. You trade expendable players for lottery picks, not your only star caliber player. If the Hawks had another low post player, then yeah I would agree, they could move Shareef. But they don't, so the trade proposal has no benefit. " LOL have you look at this franchise lately? Have you noticed there isn't one franchise in the league in worse shape other than the Knicks maybe. "not your only star caliber player." Stars don't go playoff less for 8 seasons....Coming up on 9... "If the Hawks had another low post player" [censored] a lowpost player. How many post players does Detroit/Philly/Dallas/Portland have? This franchise SUCKS and is going to SUCk for the next several years unless some moves are made. Reef doesn't bring wins so TRADE HIM. He's had more than enough time..... Look at Denver. I know they had a bad game last night, but they traded away McDyess and it's ALREADY paying off for them. I'd sure as heck take Nene Hilero over 31 year old McDyess. Reef is in the same class as Jamison/Dice...They will have nice numbers, but they aren't good enough to make your team win. Get over it. This franchise is going nowhere with Reef sucking 15 million a year just to pad his own stats.

That's why you need a smart GM. Didn't the Lakers give up Vlade for the rights to Kobe Bryant? Reef doesn't have the trade value you think he has. He's overpaid and probably will expect a raise......Those kind of players aren't easy to get rid of as it is....

That's why I said I'd accept a ltto pick and Clark from the Jazz for Reef.

And I don't just blame Reef...I blame all the players on this team. It's all 12 mens fault this team sucks.

You have this vision than Reef is Shaq like on offense and nobody can stop him...blah blah blah He's not big enough to overpower people, his moves are predictable...You surround Reef with a more talented team his production is likely to fall of has it done last year. I remember when the Dog trade was made Diesel was trying to convince me that Reef would average 25PPG againest single coverage...blah blah blah...It didn't happen did it? In fact, Reef's numbers slipped abit from 21PPG 9.1RPG down to 19.9PPG 8.4RPG...You can cry about the back, but that is hearsay. Tmac has had a bad back for a few years now but that hasn't slowed his production... Shaq has been injuried for years...but he still gets his numbers...Larry Bird had a bad back and ankles for years and still produced year in and year out.

We are talking about talent and ability." What talent other than scoring? Bad passer, bad defender, poor shot blocker, bad leader, no passion. Reef is no better than Antwan Jamison and you or play have yet to prove otherwise.

Hots, Artest has been lit up by his fair share of players. He isn't infallible. Actually, I remember one of Cleveland's first games..... they played Indiana and BOOZER (of all people) went 10-16 on him." That's because Artest is a swingman and Boozer is a PF. What the H2ll is your point? "Please, unless you have ANYTHING of value to offer, just shut it. Reef is a great player on an awful team. If he played on a better coached team, he would be considered a premier player. " Reef doesn't even produce enough to be a great player. 20PPG 8RPG isn't enough to be a great player anyway. Walker is nearly matching Reef's production as a 4th option. Meanwhile Reef is barely pulling in 20PPG as a teams first and only option. You can shout if if if if all you want, but you have nothing to back it up.

Reef's one fan is biased. What has Reef done to put himself over the likes of Jamison and Walker? They can average 20/8 also.....Heck, Jamison averaged 25/8. All you can say is woulda shoulda coulda....Well that means nothing. The coulda had Dr.J...but it didn't workout that way. Reefs numbers have yet to make a team better. The better his numbers get the more the team has seemed to lose as of late. [censored], Walker is having almost as good of a season as Reef statwise and he's playing beside Finley/Nash/Jamison and Dirk. Reef 20PPG 9.8RPG 2.4APG Walker 17.2PPG 10.3RPG 4.3APG

Artest is a GREAT defender. There isn't one player at the swingman position that he can't SHUT DOWN..He can even shut down some PF's. "You also need to understand that defense BEGINS at the perimeter. If you have good outside presence, the inside defenders can play better. " Did you see what Kenyon done to Reef? Did you see how Cliff Robinson scored on Reef time after time in a game ealier this season? Did you see how Al Harrington droped 40 points on his @ss? "ow that he is playing PF full-time and his back is not bothering him, he is averaging around 10." It's 20 games into the season...... "He is also dropping in 26-28 points. He is also shooting lights out at around 52-55%. " And the funny thing is that the better he's played the last few weeks the team has LOST even more than it was at the start of the season. Again, none these games have been important....The Hawks aren't compete for anything. When your team losses good stats mean nothing.

Trace, Reef's one fan is so wrapped up in his love for a player that really isnt an allstar player that he fails to see the truth.

Your so busy riding a dyck that you can't see the point. The point is that until he plays and does something in meaningful game everything is hearsay. Thus far he's been nothing but a 4th period choke and a soft player. Until Reef wins his stats doesn't mean anything. Reefs one fan lays one excuse after another....Your boy isn't that good. He's no better or no more proven than Antwan Jamison or Juwon Howard. [censored], his career numbers aren't even as good as Antoine Walkers. "The only thing KG or TD bring more than Shareef is defense, but one man can't make a defense" Those guys average 12RPG...When has Reef ever done that? Those guys pass, when has Reef ever done that? KG can play SF,PF,C and Reef can't do that....Did you see those two three's KG had to send the game to over time to beat the Kings...When has Reef ever done that? Your such a freakin dyckrider that you actually think Reef is the best player in the league. What a total moron.

Let's talk Theo first. Theo gets manhandled by centers, because he himself is not a center. He is a PF pretending to be a C. We all know this." The only way Theo can look good is a defensive player is if he is surrounded by lots of other defensive players like Tyrone Hill/George Lynch/Eric Snow.....I believe THeo was a backup with Detroit and he should be a backup now. Doug Christie/Ron Artest are good defensive players and don't need other pieces around them to look like good defensive players. "Reef may be "soft", but he also plays average defense. Most players in this league, especially offensive players, will not take a charge. I've seen Reef sacrifice his body in every game this year. " He averages less than a half a block a game as a PF, he has to have help defense because he is a poor defensive player...His career rebounding isnt all that great for a guy that plays 38MPG as a PF. "As for the Utah comment ... thus Andrei is NOT better than Shareef, because Sloan is artificially making Andrei look good by the system he has in place." Yeah whatever. Andrei is FAR superior in athletic ability, defensive awareness, shot blocking ability, stealing and defense overall. He doesn't cherry pick for rebounds like Reef. Fact it, your nothing but Reef's personal dyckrider. Like i said before, it's good that he has one fan in the world... but that doesn't make him good.