Plainview1981

That would be the worst starting backcourt in the NBA....SAR/Jamison are both wimps as players and all the things KB listed. Diesel that is just a terrible lineup

Getting Jimmy Johnson out of retirement would be TOUGH and if they can't I can't see anyone other than JJ that the Falcons could get right now.

Alot of the BUlls and Clippers problem is dumb/poor mangement and CHicago's refusel to dump the triangle offense. You aren't going to win with Reef or Jamison as your best player. THese guys aren't first options and aren't worth their salary.....Jamison and Reef are two guys that will EAT up about 28Million just for those two. They aren't worth it. Jamison is nothing but a stat player and that is why the Warriors dumped him. Two much cap space ate up between two tweeners that haven't ever won.

No. None of these trades makes the Hawks a top team. Delk/Diaw/Jamison/Reef/Nazr? That team sucks. Jamison and Reef for the most part are stat players and not winners. You have a team with only two scores and two backups. Nazr is a backup unless you have three scorers or more and Delk isn't a starter at all.

If the team really thinks building around these two is a good idea you best prepare for a Denver Nuggets decade of sucking to start...

Oh and as of right now, Howard is rebounding better than Diaw and is scoring more. He also bests Diaw is blocking and steals despite playing 7MPG less. Diaw is averaging 1APG more in 7MPG more.

When your a team like the Hawks and you suck so bad with no future you need more than a 12PPG 5RPG 4APG player(If that is what he becomes) this franchise needs a player with star potential. It's about what the Hawks need. They need a real star potential player right now instead of role players. It's really not about Diaw or him being not being a solid player. It's about the Hawks needing a superstar or an explosive player. Diaw really doesn't have the potential to be either. " Points aren't everything and Diaw doesn't even try to score, yet." Seeing his lack of offensive game I'd say it would be better if he didn;t try and score. Look at that sorry ft shooting. If the Hawks had other young player with SUPERSTAR or even STAR potential I'd rather have Boris than Howard. But as the team looks right now, the Hawks are in alot more need of an explosive player rather than a role player or little above average role player.

Props to KB for some good posting. We often dissagree, but some good posts here.

You think the Falcons can turn Duckett into a FB like Mike Anderson? I think the Falcons need to target Jimmy Johnson or Denny Green...

Those hits he will take WILL send him to the pocket more in the next 4 years. But don't hate on Vick because he's an athlete and guys like Peyton aren't a real athlete. Chandler was a pocket passer and how many healthy seasons did he have? Didn't Joe Thiesmans career end with a really bad injury while being in the pocket? Personally I'm sick and tired of this pocket garbage. McNabb (you know the overrated black QB. lol) is currently making plays and is healthy. Sure he got injuried last year, but every QB gets injuried sooner or later.

I don't think I said he sucked. I said he's a bust from what a number 1 pick should be. Shouldn't a number 1 pick be a superstar player? "ut I wouldn't expect any to say anything good about him anyway " I just said in my last post that healthy he's probably a 30-33 HR guy and about 90-95RBI guy....That's not saying something bad. I'm just saying he's not a superstar or anything, but I remember him having a pretty good bit of hype and he's yet to live up to it. Injuries or not it doesn't matter. Heck, I never said he never will putup great numbers, but as of right now he hasn't proved to be the star he was hyped up to be. Nothing personal, but this is one reason why I'm reluctant to support one team.....That way I don't take ever little critism of the team to heart like some of you guys do. When you think of a number 1 pick you think of a super star type of player. Is JD Drew that? Unless you can say that, then your comments are unwarranted because this was all I was trying to say. Ray King faltered the second half last season. I like Jason, but the guy just doesn't get the job done...With all of that being said, I think the Braves made a good deal and got a solid player. And no the Braves will not lose the division...Who's going to beat them? The rebuilding Mets? The torn apart Marlins? The never contending Expos? The Philles might fight abit, but they haven't dethrowned the Braves the last several years and there is nothing to say they will now. If anything, this should be the biggest advange the Braves have had in years. I like Giles and I'm sure he'll continue to improve. I like that one guy that pitched for the Braves last year...The rookie with a bit of a hot head...Can't think of his name..

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6117 Well, if your the first pick in the draft and your best season is 27HR 73RBI I'd say that makes you abit of a bust. The Braves didn't give up alot so it's not a bad deal....It's just that the guy isn't all that great. Injuries or whatever...it makes no difference. If he plays 150 games a year he's probably a 30HR 90RBI guy...And that isn't bad, but that's what he'll give you in a healthy season. But he's not really much of a replacement for Sheffield.

Boris is a player actually that Dallas or the Lakers could use because those teams have lots of talent and a guy like Boris can just step in and be a role player...Here the Hawks need lots of talent in the scoring, rebounding department and Boris doesn't really do these things.

Perimeter shooting can be improved. Remember, Vince was pretty much limited to dunking his first year or so...Or what about Scottie Pippen? "Boris Diaw's only weakness is his perimeter shooting." Postup ability? Can he create his own shot? Does he have the instincts to be a respectable scorer? Boris isn't even a top 10 in the rookie class...He only averages 3.9PPG and a lousy 2.1APG......There is nothing impressive about that..... Boris will never been anything more than a limited role player Theo Crapliff.

You guys make all kinds of excuses and such to avoid the truth. You might like Diaw...but make no mistake that he has no potential beyond being a role player. Howard has the potential to be a 20PPG 6RPG type of player and Boris doesn't have that. I know it's the flavor of the day to go with euro's with strange names over proven 4 year college players, but it's not always the best of things. Boris will be nothing more than 10PPG 5RPG 3APG player because that's all he has the talent to be. As far as Mello goes....last time I looked he shot below 40% so I guess it doesn't take much to hold him to a bad percentage. When Diaw shuts down Kobe or Tmac then we'll talk about it. And you talk about shooting percentages...the only reason Diaw has a FG% above 30% is because of a few tip-ins here and there....Not to mention the low ammount of shots. He and that 3PPG he is averaging. "Boris is a rookie, and he's already the best man up defender on the team. " Considering the team sucks on defense(well offense aswell) that isn't all that hard.

I don't know much about minor league baseball or the baseball draft, but wasn't JD Drew a 1st pick in the draft? That kinda makes him a bust.

17 points 13 rebounds 3assist...Wish the hawks would have drafted him and they wouldn't be playing chumps like Dion and Stephen Jackson.

And it's not rough now? The Hawks gave up about 98PPG with Nazr as a starter and give up about 96PPG with Theo. Not a huge different. You guys overrate Theo's impact. Teams get offensive rebounds(Because he can't rebound) and you are playing 4 on 5 with him on offense. This is a bad defensive team with or without Theo.

Seattle gets: Hawks first round pick Theo Ratliff Dan Dickau Alan Henderson Hawks get: Ray Allen Antonio Daniels If Okieze can really contribute then Hendu will not be needed next year and we can sign a PF to play backup mintues anyway. Hawks have: PG:Jason Terry/Antonio Daniels SG:Ray Allen/Dion Glover SF:Boris Diaw/jackson/Nailon PF:Shareef/Nailon/FA C:Nazr Mohammad/Ekezie Seattle has: PG:Brent Barry/Luke/Dickau SG:Flip Murray SF:Rashard Lewis PF:Radman/Collison/Hendu C:Theo/James/Popenko/Booth Plus the Hawks lotto pick The Sonics could make some deals to get some backup swingman like a Derek Anderson or someone. It leaves Seattle with a young and very talented team and gives the Hawks the combo of the inside/out player they really need. Not to mention Ray Allen is a good ball handler. He averaged 5.2APG when he was traded to Seattle last year.

If we could package the lotto pick/Theo/Nailon for Ray Allen/filler I'd be willing to keep Reef. Jason Terry Ray Allen Boris Diaw Shareef Nazr I'd be willing to keep Reef in this case because I believe Allen/Reef would make a killer combo. Brent Barry Flip Murray Rashard Lewis Vlad Theo

What I'm saying is that Reef is so much better then the rest of the team and so his 20/8 looks more much great than it really is. But notice, Reef's impact last year was less than it was the first year when Dog came in. Reef allowed Dog to take his place as the teams leading scorer... "Mailman look less dominant than they used to look when they played on less talented teams." I dissagree...Malone has looked better this year than he has in a couple of years. Sure his scoring is down, but he's boarding more than he has the last few years. You can also tell the difference with Payton because LA is able to run like they couldn't the last couple of years. 1st option player isn't going to let Dog come in and take his status from him. You think IVy is going to defer to Dog? You think Kobe would? Shaq? Duncan? Dirk? As I've said, Reef is no different than the Walkers/Brands/ Jamisons.....Reef is the best scorer, but he isn't the allround player Brand is....Walker is a really good passer at his position, be's a poor shooter. There is NOTHING that Reef has that makes him a top notch PF. Even if he is was the greatest post player in the league he's still a flawed passer and defensive player....He's shot blocking has declined.... 20/8/3 as good of numbers they are look...they are second tier numbers at the PF slot right now...ESP when you consider Reef's below average defense and ball handling ability. Shareef is a forced first option. He's the best player on the team and best scorer...He's a first option right now because that's the only choice. If Dog was still here I'd bet he'd still be the leading scorer.

And its wrong for me to say Reef is a good scorer on a bad team. I don't mean it the what it sounds. Reef looks like a great player because he's alot better than anyone else on the teams he's play with. But if you put him on a team like Dallas he looks like just another good player. Remember how goot JT looked the year before Reef came? Remember how JT lead the team in scoring and looked like he was on the verge of becoming a top SG in the league?

The Warriors traded Jamison, because they had a bigger need at point guard" I'm curious to know what a 32 year old Van Exel(with bad knees) has over Arenas or even Earl Boykins at this point. "The Hawks can use their picks wisely and build around Reef. " Reef can't be built around..He doesn't produce enough and terrible on defense and overpayed. If you anything besides a stupid Hawks fan you'd see this. All Reef can do is score, and that's not enough. "They also had young players, namely Dunleavy and Troy Murphy that could step in and do Jamison's job. Who do the Hawks have?" Jamison averaged 24PPG/8RPG and Dunleavy averages 12PPG 6RPG....Mikes doing his job...eh? "He never has been, and never will be. Dice relied on his great athletic ability," So because Dice had athletic ability and Reef doesn' that makes Reef better? lol Look he rebouned, blocked shots, and Dice was a LOT better defensive player. Pure comedy. Now players lose points for having athletic ability.... If that's what you go for Nique shouldn't be considered that good either. "Yeah, Denver needed to trade Antonio Mcdyess. " Look at the Bulls with Elton Brand. Granted Chicago still has some problems. But they are still ahead of the Hawks and I think it will end up being a good benefit that they are going to ditch the triangle offense.... "ntoine Walker was called a star even though he was shooting less than 40% from the field." AI won an MVP shooting under 40% and went to the finals So where has Reef had his high pecentage shooting got him so far? That's right, playing golf with this ugly wife every April. "Shareef, will never be a "star" as long as he is surrounded by bad teammates and bad management. " No. Reef will never be a star because He's boring, very little athletic ability, poor defense, average passer at best, has no charisma, chokes late in games, doesn't appear to give 100% every game and he hasn't made one player better in his entire career. " Blah, Blah, Blah. Unlike you and other people, I wait until I see a team on the court before I determine they are or not a playoff team. There is this thing called chemistry, that in a weakened Eastern Conference can go a long ways in determining who does or doesn't make the playoffs. On paper, the so called experts were calling the Utah Jazz the worst team in the league. Two years ago, the Detroit Pistons were supposed to scrape the bottom of the Central Divison, but they didn't. Why? Because of that thing called chemistry. Watching the Hawks play, I now see that they don't have it." LOL a smart fan can look at this team and see the flaws.. NO PG..Shooting guards that nobody wanted.....an undersized C and a TERRIBLE bench. Only a dumb@ss Hawk fan would believe this team could crack the playoffs. Even other players laugh at this team. "he Hawks have done a [censored] poor job of surrounding their best player with the right mix of talent. Until they do, the Hawks and Reef will not make the playoffs. " Well, considering the team is capped out I highly doubt they'll have a chance to land a REAL first option player. " So, I guess Reef is obviously no better than a 3rd option on a good team, huh? Yeah, Reef's numbers took a complete nose dive when they acquired Big Dog. I mean he dropped a whole 2 ppg. Shareef took two less shots per game and shot at a higher percentage." Exactually right. Reef became even LESS aggressive with more scores. That's not a sign of a first option. Reef is taking fewer shots than Walker, shooting at a higher percentage, and still averaging more points, on a team without as much talent." Reef plays on a garbage team in MEANINGLESS games. Hawks rarely play in competetive game and they never compete for anything. When Reef is pure in a pressure situation he's likely to choke. Heck, he chokes at the end of meaningless games. "And Malone and Walker play on teams that have real point guards. Both teams score a ton of points so there are plenty of shots to go around. It is a lot easier to score points, when there are other scorers around. It's a lot easier to beat single coverage, or hit wide open looks, than it is to fight through double teams, or make good passes and watch your teammates blow easy shots" Walker and Malone have BOTH been been better passers than Reef their entire careers. Having ability to pass*and not just the east passes* makes other players better. What NBA player has Reef ever made better? Name one. " Did you notice that Walker is shooting a career high, 43% (smirk) from the field and averaging a career low 2.7 turnovers. You know why? Simple, because the Mavs have other guys, including an All-Star point guard, that can handle the rock. " No, that's because he doesn't have to force shots like he did in Boston. Reef had what you guys tried to pass off as two or three allstars last year and yet the team seen NO IMPROVEMENT. According to you guys Theo was a allstar center and Dog was supposed to open up things for Reef to average 25PPG*cough cough Diesel* but it didn't happen. I know I know...your not smart enough to be able to have a real opinion on a team before they play. "eef is taking fewer shots than Walker, shooting at a higher percentage, and still averaging more points, on a team without as much talent. " He's averaging more points because he's able to take shots on a bad team in pressureless and meaningless games. The Hawks arent even considered a threat so that gives the hawks players abit of an advange. Plus you factor in that Reef isn't held accountable for his bad defense, passing.. That's the Hawks problem...To many one players like JT/Reef and that's why neither will ever win jack as a first option in the NBA. No wonder they can score! They don't try and the defensive end. When Walker played for Boston he had to rebound, score, pass, play alot of positions, was forced to play over 40MPG which isn't exactually an easy thing. I wonder if Reef could play 42MPG? Lets look at some career numbers shall we? Reef's career numbers 46.7%fg 20.7PPG 8.4RPG 2.9APG Walkers 41.3%fg 20.3PPG 8.7RPG 4.2APG Brand 49.4%fg 19.2PPG 10.7RPG 1.9BLK Jamison 45.5%fg 19.8PPG 7.4RPG 1.8APG If Reef is worth 14million than all those guys are. There really isn't much difference....Walker has a lower FG%, but he ranks higher in assist than all the other guys listed. All those guys have pretty much played most of their games. You want to know what's funny? All those players but walker has lost and done nothing but lose. You can say" Oh, if Reef had such and such" but it's all hearsay. Reef probably can be sucessful as a second option when playing with a guy like Paul Pierce. But there isn't any chance to get that type of player in the next couple of years. Reefs numbers point to him being a second teir player. Thats good, but not good enough to build the team around HIM. Detroit Indiana Lakers Mavs Kings Spurs Nets They all have a top tier player. Dyess Reef Brand Jamison Walker Are second tier PF's....YOu can't build your team around those players. It doesn't work. They all give about the same production but in different areas....Brand is the best rebounder and shot blocker of the bench, Reef is the best scorer of the bunch, Walker is the best passer of the bench, Dyess is the most athletic and second best shot blocker of the bunch. Building a team around a second tier player is hard to do. O'Neal is really closer to a second tier PF, but he's the best PF in the east. The problem with some of you guys is that you only look at scoring...Blah blah Reefs great in the post...but what else does he do? He rebounds like a second teir PF and doesn't play defense....He can't make anything more than the simple pass, his shot blocking has trailed off the last few years, his leadership has been questionable most of his career......And he dissappears in the few times he plays in an important situation. [censored], he'd rather pass the ball for no shot than even take a lost shot attempt...Did you see him in that Toronto game? My point in all this is that Reef is a second teir Forward while Webber/Duncan/KG/Dirk and possibly Ben Wallace are the top tier Forwards. You don't build around second tier players....The Hawks should know, they had a second teir SG as their best player and didn't make it out of the second round.

You'll respond with the same ole lopsided view...Reef averages blah blah blah blah..Reef padding stats has clearly swayed your thoughts. Maybe you should try watching a real NBA team=)

Now only is Memphis better coached, but they are the better and more talented team.... Not only can the Grizz start Jason Williams Mike Miller Shane Battier Gasol Swift They have Posey Lo Watson-He's better than any PG on the Hawks team Bonzi Wells Big Jake Outlaw TYhey have a very talented team and their bench Watson Wells Posey Outlaw Big Jake That team come compete with the Hawks starting lineup almost.