Bankingitbig

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/05/08/morning-tip-future-atlanta-hawks-mike-budenholzer-paul-millsap This has been one of my biggest complaints over the past year or so which is the fact of no clear direction. Are we rebuilding/retooling or trying to fully compete? Ressler taking control of negotiations with Millsap signals to me that the front office screwed up last year in regards to Horford. Sounds like they are going to give him whatever he wants. Something we all complained about... Why wasn't Thabo out there for his defense. Seems that Wilcox and even some players weren't too happy either.

I don't think the Hawks have the optionality to move the pick if they want to. Below is from RealGM's Future Traded pick Details. Basically if the pick falls between 1-10 in 2019 then it gets pushed back to 2020. If it again falls between 1-10 in 2020, then it turns into two 2nd round picks (2021 and 2022). 2019 first round draft pick from Cleveland Cleveland's 1st round pick to Atlanta protected for selections 1-10 in 2019 and 1-10 in 2020; if Cleveland has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Atlanta by 2020, then Cleveland will instead convey its 2021 2nd round pick and 2022 2nd round pick to Atlanta [Atlanta-Cleveland, 1/7/2017]

Also - fun fact: Dwight Howard averaged the most post touches out of anyone based on NBA Stats player tracking this season. Yet, he was well below average in terms of Pass% in the post.

The guy was 14th in assists for guards this season on one of the worst offenses in the league with many of the players above him averaging more minutes. You adjust for the minutes and the pace and I am sure he would be near the top. Not to mention it was his first year starting. I don't understand the nonsense about him being a ball hog. Do we not want Schröder to drive iso against a slow moving big man when he gets the switch? I certainly do... Give me that all day. Does he need to work on having better awareness while driving? Yes. But that's a hard thing to do when trying to beat your man with speed.

The video doesn't work for me because I am at work. But I see the caption "Tony Parker dishes a wonderful behind-the-head pass to Pau Gasol, who knocks down the jumper." Are we supposed to expect Dwight to "knock down a jumper"? Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a nice screen set by Gasol, something that Dwight doesn't know how to do for whatever reason. Anyways... I don't think the guy that put up 25/8 with a TS% of 59% in the playoffs is the problem. Not to mention he is 23 years old and had his first career start. Could he work on his passing? Sure. Most players at age 23 haven't reached their potential and are working on their attributes.

Who was the Finals MVP for them? Also, I think you are discrediting the amount of chemistry they had by playing together with the same coach for 10years. Not to mention having one of the all time greatest players ever and arguably the greatest coach ever plus arguably the best two-way player in the game right now. But yea, I am sure an old Chris Paul, Dwight Howard and Paul Millsap who have never played a game together in their lives could mimic that.

Well it would be the #26 pick in this year's draft... Now take into account LeBron aging and the fact that they are already at $127M in salary for the 2018-2019 season, so they can't add any help to their roster through free agency. I could see that being a low 20's pick.

Old players never win either... Give me a recent team where the core players were all over age 32 (which would be the case with Paul, Millsap and Howard - btw we don't even have the $ for CP3, but whatever). You could easily argue that the Warriors were a nonvet team before you could make the case that they were a vet team. Thompson still on his rookie deal. Draymond Green still on his rookie deal. Harrison Barnes still on his rookie deal. Curry just beginning his 2nd contract. We need a better compliment of players that are on the same timeline as Dennis and Prince... We aren't winning a championship right now, so why waste resources into players that will be retired when Dennis and Prince are in their primes.

No - we traded him so we could get a 1st round pick in 2019 instead of nothing. Would we have beaten Washington with him? Probably not. Even if we did, would it have mattered? Would not having a 2019 first round pick be worth losing in the 2nd round instead of losing in the first round? Seems near-sighted to me.

Definitely rooting for the Jazz, but see them having a short series against the Warriors. Past them, I would prefer SA or HOU. Don't like anyone in the East, but I would still root for WSH over BOS.

Baze's value is bad... but not that bad. Maybe the 2019 Cleveland first, but still. And only if we really need the cap space.

Do we honestly think Chris Paul and Dwight Howard would get along?? No way that happens... Chris Paul is already known for being a tough teammate, always barking at others. Dwight is way too sensitive for that.

Just curious where you got these stats? Not saying they are wrong, just genuinely curious especially where you can see opponent PER. Basketball Reference has Dwight's 2016-2017 regular season PER at 20.8 for example.

Then Budcox deserves blame. They gambled with Al over $6M for 5 years and lost. Now they are faced with a much more difficult decision in Millsap on a much worse contract. Also, why wouldn't you try and lock up Horford's contract first before agreeing with Howard? Either way, I don't necessarily believe that was the case. My own personal unverified opinion is that Budcox's hands were tied by Ressler. Ressler and Koonin wanted a superstar that they could market to Atlanta and who better than the homegrown Dwight Howard. So Budcox had to get Howard regardless of anything else, which is why negotiations with him went so fast. Budcox wanted Horford back and were going to trade Millsap post resigning Horford. They stuck to a strict $ amount on Horford and he said no, which I think was a mistake because the $6M/5years difference is WAY BETTER than what we are potentially about to offer Millsap, not to mention we could have actually had some return in Millsap (even if it wasn't equal value, still better than nothing). My own conspiracy is Blackstone was a key part in terms of coming up with a plan for negotiating Horford's contract and didn't do a good job, which is why he resigned right after free agency despite being in the Hawks front office for only a year.

I understand the rationale of "We can't get past the Cavs because we don't have a rebounder" in a complete vacuum, which makes sense as to why they paid Howard $23.5M to rebound and clog the paint. But when you look at it with the context of losing your 2nd best player and allstar Al Horford, who was a key reason for how the offense ran, then no... I can't get to the same understanding of signing Howard to beat the Cavs. Shouldn't it have been obvious that by losing Horford we likely weren't going to be competing against the Cavs deep in the playoffs anyways?

I'm sure IT even told him, "Hey, my boy Danny is gonna give you a max. You should come to BOS." Does that matter? Did we not know that Boston and other teams were going to offer a max? Wasn't that obvious? Did he really need IT to tell him that? Point remains... The Hawks had the final say in terms of if they wanted Horford or not. Boston offered him $28.4M per year... He wanted to play for the Hawks for that same exact $28.4M per year and was willing to take a $10M paycut from his full max. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me..... Instead Hawks management said no and wanted him to play for $27M per year and take a $16M paycut from his full max. This doesn't even take into the account the randomness that management was doing on the side in terms of Millsap and Howard that likely didn't make Horford happy.

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but whatever. Based on reports, Al's final demand was $142M/5years ($28.4M/year). We said no. BTW the max for him was $154M. Instead we go with an older Dwight Howard for $70.5M/3years ($23.5M/year) and are now faced with an older Millsap's max of $209M/5years. I don't quite get to the understanding that you do in terms of how it was better to get Howard and lose Horford for nothing, then to sign Horford on a much, much better deal that Millsap will command this year. You can find rebounding help for a lot less than $23.5M per year and not have to completely sacrifice your offense in order to do so. Cap space wasn't an issue since we had Horford's Bird rights and could have even made room for him post the Howard signing if needed. Also, the thing about Boston and Horford is overblown... A guy who has played his entire career playing in Atlanta, then asking another player what it is like to play in one of the most historic basketball cities of all time. Doesn't seem that farfetched to me. I'm not trying to say that signing Horford was the best move. But not signing Horford and then signing Howard instead was definitely not a smart move.

Don't think Biyombo is an allstar obviously, but would have solved the "rebounding issue" and wouldn't have gotten punked in the PnR as bad as Howard since he can actually move his feet. Noel wasn't an option since he wasn't a free agent and would have required a first round pick which I don't think would have been smart. Plus, I think Noel would have still gotten punked by Thompson.

Budcox still deserves some blame for Horford and how the situation was handled even if Ressler wanted Howard. The offseason was handled poorly regardless and I think was indicative of having an assistant GM resigning shortly after. Even so, why would you want Bud to step down if he hasn't even had "full control" yet? Just to be clear, I am in favor of Bud only being a coach, but I think I would rather have Bud as President rather than having Wilcox as GM by himself if those were my only options.

Why not go for a guy like Biyombo then? Younger, moves his feet better, no injury issues, no locker room issues, understands his role and cheaper contract... Ownership just wanted to try and use Howard for marketing and it failed.

I think Moose will be back. How can you call a center useless on offense who shot 42% on 110 threes this season? He had a bad playoffs, but who didn't on our team besides Dennis and Paul? I think Moose's defense is fine. He moves his feet well and understands when to switch/rotate to defend. It's not like he will be playing Zach Randolph in the post every game. Muscala's game is a good fit for this modern NBA.

You act like we are paying Schröder max money or something. You're completely missing the point with Schröder. The fact that we have a young PG that proved he can be a legit starter locked up until 2021 on a very reasonable deal is a huge positive. No one is expecting him to "lead" us to a championship. We obviously still need other key parts.

Pretty obvious management/ownership has no desire to tank. They had the perfect opportunity to this past off-season, but doubled down with the signing of Howard.

People who averaged 24 points and 7 assists over the course of this season: Russell Westbrook James Harden LeBron James Don't think anyone is expecting Schröder to become that type of player.... I haven't seen it on this board or anywhere else. So I am really confused as to why you even bring it up. What people have issue with is you saying that this is the best he will ever play... Dude is 23 years old and it was his first playoff series as a starter. But props to you on your bold prediction of Schröder not becoming Westbrook, Harden or LeBron - how many people did you get to take the other side of that bet? I want some of that action also....

I don't really see any teams wanting Howard. Going to have to through in some other assets to trade him in my opinion.